** 1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA CASE NO. 88-1886-CIV-HOEVELER UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, et al, ) ) Plaintiffs, ) ) vs. ) ) SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT ) DISTRICT; JOHN R. WODRASKA, ) EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, SOUTH FLORIDA ) WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT; FLORIDA ) DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL REGU- ) LATION; AND DALE TWACHTMANN, ) SECRETARY, FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF ) ENVIRONMENTAL REGULATION, et al, ) ) Defendants. ) ___________________________________ ) - - - - - - - - DEPOSITION OF ELIZABETH PACKER, THE WITNESS, TAKEN ON BEHALF OF THE PLAINTIFFS - - - - - - - - DATE: August 23, 1990 PROFESSIONAL REPORTING SERVICE Suite 303, 324 Datura Street West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 (407) 659-4046 ** 2 I N D E X August 23, 1990 DIRECT CROSS KEVIN RODBERG By Ms. Nash 5 By Mr. Richards 13 ** 3 The deposition of ELIZABETH PACKER, the witness, in the above-entitled and numbered cause, was taken before me, DONNA McCALLEY, Registered Professional Reporter, and Notary Public for the State of Florida at Large, at Suite 110, 324 Datura Street, in the City of West Palm Beach, County of Palm Beach, in the State of Florida, beginning at the hour of 11:39 a.m., on Thursday, the 23rd of August, 1990, pursuant to the Notice in said cause for the taking of said deposition, which is annexed to the court file herein, on behalf of the Plaintiffs in the above-entitled action pending in the above-named court. The appearances at said time and place were as follows: UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE Room 868, 601 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20044-0663 Attorneys for the Plaintiffs, U.S.A. By BEVERLY SHERMAN NASH, ESQ. PEEPLES, EARL & BLANK, P.A. Suite 3636, Two South Biscayne Boulevard Miami, Florida 33131 Attorneys for the Cities of Belle Glade and Clewiston By JOSEPH RICHARDS, ESQ. SKADDEN, ARPS, SLATE, MEAGHER & FLOM 1440 New York Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20005-2107 Attorneys for the South Florida Water Management District By KATHARINE STOLLMAN, ESQ. ALLISON BURDETTE, ESQ. ** 4 APPEARANCES CONTINUED: SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT 3301 Gun Club Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33416-4680 By JACQUELYN L. WATERS, ESQ. ALSO PRESENT: Ray Roberts Robert Johnson ** 5 THEREUPON: ELIZABETH PACKER, having been first duly sworn, as hereinafter certified, testified as follows: DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. NASH: Q. Would you state your name, please. A. Elizabeth Packer. Q. Mrs. Packer, I'm Beverly Nash, and I'm counsel for the United States in this litigation. And we're here today to try and understand what computers the water management district has, how they're utilized, what data is on them, how they're formatted, and you're here today as a representative having knowledge concerning one or more of nine areas that we were inquiring about. Have you been shown the list of areas? A. Yes, ma'am. Q. And what areas are you knowledgeable about? A. I believe the copy of the notice that we received, probably the only thing that I'll be able to give you any information on is item number two. Q. What is your present title or position? A. Legal administrative assistant, ** 6 Administration. Q. And what division or department is that in? A. Office of Counsel. Q. What is your job description? A. Basically I provide administrative and secretarial support for the Deputy District Counsel and the Inter-agency Coordinator. Q. And what you are your responsibilities in that job? A. Whatever kind of support that they need. I do typing, set up meetings, keep files, make sure that they have what they need when they go to their meetings, documents and thing things that they need to take with them. Q. And how long have you been in that role? A. I'm not sure exactly, but I think it's about seven years. Q. Have you had other positions at the water management district? A. Yes. Q. What positions? A. I was an executive secretary and I was a legal secretary. Q. In what divisions? ** 7 A. In the Legal Department. Q. And how long were you in those positions? A. Approximately three years each. Q. Who are your supervisors in Office of Counsel? A. The Deputy District Counsel and the District Counsel. Q. Who's the Deputy District Counsel? A. Irene Quincy. Q. And the District Counsel? A. Steve Walker. Q. Do you use computers in your present job? A. Yes, ma'am. Q. What computers do you use? A. I use a Xerox 6085 and an IBM PC. Q. What records or files do you keep on the Xerox 6085? A. Mostly just correspondence, memos, letters. Q. Do you make different use of the IBM PC? A. Basically the only thing I use the IBM PC for is to transfer documents from one system to the other. Q. And what is the nature of the documents that you would be transferring? ** 8 A. The same kind of things. Same kinds of things, memos and letters, correspondence. Q. The memos, letters and correspondence you're referencing relate only to matters in office of counsel? A. Yes, ma'am. Q. Do you use a particular software package? A. We use Viewpoint on the Xerox system and we use Word Perfect on the IBM PC. Q. Are there documents or manuals that you use to assist you with the work you do on the Xerox 6085? A. I'm not sure what you mean by "documents." Q. If you have a question when you're trying to do some work on the Xerox 6085, is there something that you can reference to assist you? A. We have an instruction manual, yes. Q. Do you know the name of that manual? A. No, ma'am, I do not. Q. Is there anyone you turn to for assistance if you have a question when using the-- A. Yes, ma'am. We contact the computer hotline, and that's in the Technical Services Department. Q. Is there a different manual that you ** 9 reference when you're using the IBM PC? A. Yes. Q. And what manual is that? A. I don't know the name of it. Q. And is there an individual or individuals that you would contact if you have questions? A. Again, we call the computer hotline. Q. What procedure do you use for storing documents on the Xerox 6085? A. I'm not sure. I know what I have to do to close the document out and it stays on my desktop, but I don't--I don't know what technically, what that is. Q. Do you know what procedure you use for transferring documents on the IBM PC? A. Yes, ma'am. Q. What is that procedure? A. We convert the document from Viewpoint to document interchange format, put the document on a disk, take the disk to the IBM PC, convert it from document interchange format to Word Perfect on the IBM PC. Q. And to go from the PC to the Xerox 6085, what procedure do you use? A. There's a program on the PC that's called Exchange. It's a menu selection that the operator ** 10 makes, and you just answer a couple of questions and it sends the document. I don't know the technical aspects of that. Q. Do you utilize what's called electronic mail on the Xerox 6085? A. Yes. Q. What is the procedure? A. You copy the document to the out basket and you get a window that comes up and asks you who you want to send it to. You type in the name of who you want to send it to, and that sends the document. Q. Is there a process for archiving or retaining documents that you send through electronic mail? A. I'm not sure other than just keeping the copy on your own desktop. I don't really know. Q. Do you do any backup procedures on the documents you have which you reference as your desktop? A. Yes, we can. We have the capability to store them on a disk. Q. Do you do so? A. Not all documents. Q. What is the distinction between those documents you store and those you don't? A. Normally we only store something on a disk ** 11 that we feel we may have a need to reference again in the future. Q. Do you keep hard copies of all the documents? A. Usually, yes. Q. To create a new document on the IBM PC, what would you do; what steps would you go through? A. You would select Word Perfect from the menu, and when the software goes into effect, it opens a blank document for you on the screen. Q. And if you wanted to retrieve a document that you had previously created, what steps would you go through? A. You would punch the keys that says to retrieve and give it the name of the document. Q. Is there a list maintained of the documents that are stored on your PC? A. Not to my knowledge. Q. Is there a list of documents that's maintained of the documents stored on the Xerox 6085? A. No, ma'am. Q. Where do you go, then, if you want to retrieve a document? A. From which machine? Q. From the Xerox 6085. ** 12 A. It's usually on the desktop. Q. But there's no list that's maintained of those documents. A. No, ma'am. Q. And if you want to retrieve a document that's on the IBM PC, where do you go? A. You can do a directory of what you have on your disk and select the item from that disk. But to my knowledge, there is no listing of what's on the disk other than to ask the directory of the disk. Q. Do you know whether other use is made of the computers that are in your division in the work you do? A. I don't know. Q. Are you ever requested to transfer correspondence or memos or files to agencies or offices outside the water management district? A. I don't remember ever having to do that. Q. Do you transfer data or files to other offices within the water management district? A. Yes. Q. How do you do that? A. If the other person has a Xerox, you send it electronically. And if they don't, we can put it on a disk and send it to them. ** 13 Q. And do you ever receive data or documents from other divisions in the water management district? A. Yes. Q. And is there any difference in the procedure for doing that? A. No. MS. NASH: I have no further questions. MS. STOLLMAN: Do you want to take a break before the next attorney starts? THE WITNESS: No. MS. STOLLMAN: Okay. CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. RICHARDS: Q. I'm Joe Richards. I represent the the Cities of Belle Glade and Clewiston. You mentioned a computer hotline that you use for questions when you operate the computer. A. Yes, sir. Q. Is there an individual at the district who is responsible for that hotline? A. I don't know. It's in the technical services department is all that I know. I don't know whose responsibility it is. Q. Are you familiar with the term "SWIM," Surface Water Improvement in Management? ** 14 A. Yes, sir. Q. Have you done any work in drafting the SWIM plan or any portions thereof for the everglades? MS. STOLLMAN: Could you explain the relevance of that? MR. RICHARDS: I'm just trying to find out the location of the files and any data information. MS. STOLLMAN: You can answer. A. We have commented on drafts that have been sent electronically to us and sent those comments back to whoever requested them. But as far as actually doing the draft, no. BY MR. RICHARDS: Q. You have edited-- A. Yes. Q. --or altered those drafts? A. Um-hum. Q. Do you know who has done that? A. No, sir, I don't. Q. You don't know which person within the office of counsel has done that? A. Several of the attorneys work on that. There's not just one person. Q. Do you know who they are? ** 15 A. I don't know which ones do what part. No, I don't know. MR. RICHARDS: Thank you. I don't have any other questions. (Whereupon, the deposition was concluded at 11:56 a.m.) ** 16 E R R A T A S H E E T PURSUANT TO RULES OF CIVIL PROCEDURE, this deposition is being submitted to you for examination, reading and signing. Please do not write on the transcript. Any change in form or substance you desire to make should be entered upon this sheet as follows: PAGE NO., LINE NO._________CHANGE_____________REASON___ DATE:__________________ ADDRESS:_____________________ _____________________ COUNTY OF:___________________ _________________________ Signature of Witness _________________________ Notary Public, State of Florida at Large. My Commission Expires: ** 17 I, ELIZABETH PACKER, do hereby certify that I have read the foregoing transcript of my deposition given on August 23, 1990; that together with the correction page attached hereto noting changes in form or substance, if any, it is true and correct. ____________________________ ELIZABETH PACKER I do hereby certify that the deposition of ELIZABETH PACKER was submitted to the deponent for reading and signing; that after deponent had stated to the undersigned Notary Public that deponent had read and examined said deposition, deponent signed the same in the presence of the undersigned authority on the day of , 1990. _____________________________ Notary Public My commission expires: ** 18 CERTIFICATE THE STATE OF FLORIDA, ) COUNTY OF PALM BEACH. ) I, DONNA McCALLEY, Registered Professional Reporter, and Notary Public for the State of Florida at Large, do hereby certify that I reported the deposition of ELIZABETH PACKER, called by the Plaintiffs in the above-entitled action; that ELIZABETH PACKER was duly sworn by me; that the foregoing pages numbered from 1 to 15, inclusive, constitute a true record of the deposition given by said witness. I further certify that I am not attorney or counsel for any of the parties, nor a relative or employee of any of the parties or any attorney or counsel connected with the action in which this deposition is taken, nor financially interested in the action. WITNESS MY HAND and official seal in the City of West Palm Beach, County of Palm Beach, State of Florida, this 31st day of August, 1990. __________________________________ Registered Professional Reporter. and Notary Public, State of Florida at Large. My Commission Expires: 10/25/90.