UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA CASE NO. 88-1886-CIV-HOEVELER UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, et al, Plaintiffs, vs. SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT; JOHN R. WODRASKA, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT; FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL REGULATION; AND DALE TWACHTMANN, SECRETARY, FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL REGULATION, et al., Defendants. ______________________________________/ - - - DEPOSITION OF LISA SMITH - - - VOLUME I DATE: December 17 & 18, 1990 1 I N D E X Direct Cross Red. Rec. WITNESS: LISA SMITH BY MS. THRONE-CONTE 3 BY MR. HALL (Vol. II) 247 E X H I B I T S LS-1 Pg. 5 LS-17 Pg. 207 LS-2 Pg. 24 LS-18 Pg. 212 LS-3 Pg. 32 LS-19 Pg. 216 LS-4 Pg. 61 LS-20 Pg. 218 LS-5 Pg. 88 LS-21 Pg. 218 LS-6 Pg. 99 LS-22 Pg. 218 LS-7 Pg. 107 LS-23 Pg. 218 LS-8 Pg. 112 LS-24 Pg. 224 LS-9 Pg. 117 LS-25 Pg. 224 LS-10 Pg. 125 LS-26 Pg. 224 LS-11 Pg. 131 LS-27 Pg. 224 LS-12 Pg. 179 LS-28 Pg. 231 LS-13 Pg. 181 LS-29 Pg. 233 LS-14 Pg. 181 LS-30 Pg. 234 LS-15 Pg. 190 LS-31 Pg. 234 LS-16 Pg. 194 LS-32 Pg. 348, Vol II 2 The deposition of LISA SMITH, a witness in the above-entitled and numbered cause, was taken before me, S. Elaine Smith, Court Reporter and Notary Public for the State of Florida at Large, at The Royce Hotel, 1601 Belvedere Road, in the City of West Palm Beach, County of Palm Beach, in the State of Florida, beginning at the hour of 10:05 o'clock a.m. on the 17th day of December, 1990, pursuant to the Notice in said cause for the taking of said deposition, which is annexed to the Court file herein, on behalf of the Plaintiff in the above-entitled action pending in the above-named Court. The appearances at said time and place were as follows: DEXTER W. LEHTINEN, U.S. ATTORNEY 155 South Miami Avenue Miami, Florida 33130 by B.J. THRONE-CONTE, AUSA by RICHARD HARRISON, AUSA SOUTH FLORIDA MANAGEMENT DISTRICT 3301 Gun Club Road West Palm Beach, Florida 33416-4680 by JACQUELYN L. WATERS, ESQ. PEEPLES, EARL & BLANK One Biscayne Tower, Suite 3636 Two South Biscayne Blvd. Miami, Florida 33131 Attorneys for Cities of Belle Glade and Clewiston by KARL E. HALL, JR., ESQ. 3 1 THEREUPON, 2 LISA SMITH, 3 being by the undersigned Notary Public first duly 4 sworn, in answer to questions propounded, was examined 5 and testified as follows: 6 DIRECT EXAMINATION 7 BY MS. THRONE-CONTE: 8 Q Ms. Smith, I don't know if you have ever been 9 deposed before. I am going to ask you several 10 questions. I want you to answer them to the best of 11 your ability. If I ask you something and you don't 12 understand it, let me know and I will be more than 13 happy to rephrase it for you. 14 Basically, I am concerned about finding out 15 about your involvement in the SWIM planning process. 16 Would you please state your current address? 17 A My address is 7730 Nemec, N-e-m-e-c, Drive 18 South, that is in West Palm Beach, 33406. 19 Q What is your current business address? 20 A My business address is 3301 Gun Club Road, 21 West Palm Beach. 22 Q Are you represented by Counsel today? 23 A Yes, I am. 24 MS. THRONE-CONTE: Ms. Waters, are you 25 representing Ms. Smith as an employee of the 4 1 District. 2 MS. WATERS: Yes, I am. 3 MS. THRONE-CONTE: For the record, I would 4 like to note that it is approximately seven 5 minutes after ten and there is no Counsel present 6 for the cities of Belle Glade and Clewiston. 7 BY MS. THRONE-CONTE: 8 Q Where are you currently employed? 9 A I am currently employed by the South Florida 10 Water Management District, Planning Department. 11 Q How long have you been so employed? 12 A Thirteen years. 13 Q Has that always been in the Planning 14 Department? 15 A No, it hasn't. 16 Q What other departments were you employed at? 17 A I have worked with the Office of Public 18 Information at the beginning of my career with the 19 District. I have worked with the Office of Resource 20 Assistance in the Community Relations Division. I have 21 worked in the Department of Resource Control, and I 22 worked again with the Office of Resource Assistance 23 prior to my work with the Planning Department. 24 Q You were asked through your subpoena duces 25 tecum to bring with you a copy of your curriculum vitae 5 1 and you have done that today? 2 A Yes. 3 MS. WATERS: For the record, I have provided 4 a copy of Ms. Smith's resume to Ms. Throne-Conte 5 and I am providing a copy to the Court Reporter. 6 MS. THRONE-CONTE: I would like that marked 7 for identification, please. 8 (Whereupon, Exhibit LS-1 was marked for 9 identification.) 10 BY MS. THRONE-CONTE: 11 Q Ms. Smith, I am looking at your curriculum 12 vitae, which we have identified as LS-1. The first job 13 you got at the District, where would that be on your 14 curriculum vitae here? 15 A That is not represented here. This goes back 16 to, well, Information Services, which is now called the 17 Office of Communications, would be the first job that I 18 had with the District was in a Water Resources Office 19 in Pompano that existed for about a year. 20 Q What were your duties there? 21 A My duties, I began as a secretary for about 22 six months and then I was promoted to a technician 23 position. I prepared public information materials 24 having to do with water conservation practices and also 25 general public information materials that explained the 6 1 policies and activities of the South Florida Water 2 Management District. 3 Q And then what job did you have after that? 4 A I continued with the Office of Public 5 Information for about five years. I was promoted to 6 officer position, a professional position, and most of 7 the highlights of that work are represented at the 8 bottom of this page under "Public Information 9 Specialist, Information Services." 10 Q And that is with the Office of Public 11 Information? 12 A Information Services, it was called then. 13 The name changed several times. 14 Q And that is currently called the Office of 15 Communications now? 16 A That is currently called the Office of 17 Communications. 18 Q Did you receive any special training from the 19 District on putting together these technical public 20 information materials? 21 A I did attend courses on editing and 22 publishing, putting together print shop requisitions, 23 preparing and described how to arrange and format 24 public information for readability. I did attend a 25 couple of coursees during that time. 7 1 Q I see your degree is in social sciences and 2 history. How did you get into the technical field for 3 something like that? 4 A My degree is in education, secondary 5 education. My emphasis was in social sciences. My 6 first job with the District was in a public education 7 facility, and that is how my training allowed me to 8 work for the Water Management District. 9 I began there preparing presentations for 10 general audiences, not technical audiences. I also did 11 develop materials and programs for schools, which was 12 also one reason why my background fit to what the Water 13 Management District needed at that time. 14 As a result of my experience in the Public 15 Information Office, I did become more exposed to the 16 technical aspects of the District, the regulatory 17 aspects, the research aspects through covering 18 governing board meetings and having to respond to 19 authorities about our technical programs and regulatory 20 programs and policies. So it was on-the-job experience 21 in that regard. 22 Q So you would consider that you acquired a 23 large amount of on-the-job experience in technical 24 issues? 25 A As it relates to the Water Management 8 1 District activities, yes. 2 Q What years were you at the Water Resources 3 Office in Pompano Beach? 4 A That facility was open for about fourteen 5 months, fourteen, fifteen months. I began in 1978 and 6 I think the facility closed and the staff was moved to 7 West Palm Beach the following year in July of '79. 8 Q When the staff was moved to West Palm Beach, 9 is that when you were promoted to a Public Information 10 Specialist? 11 A To a technician position. I held that 12 position for a couple years. 13 Q When were you promoted to the Public 14 Information Specialist? 15 A I think about three years after I began with 16 the District. That would be '81. 17 Q How long did you hold that position? 18 A I held that position until I transferred into 19 the Community Relations Division of the office in 1985. 20 Q What position did you hold when you 21 transferred into the Office of Community Relations? 22 A It was Public Issue Specialist position. 23 Q What is that? 24 A That work dealt with external organized 25 groups, civic groups, environmental groups, other 9 1 government agencies, local government entities, to 2 explain District programs and policies to those 3 specific groups. 4 Q During that time, did you -- it says you 5 supplied staff support to the Governing Board. Could 6 you explain that? 7 A The staff support to Governing Board members 8 who were representing the District on local water 9 resource advisory boards. At that time we had one 10 Governing Board member represented on the advisory 11 board in Broward County, and another on an advisory 12 board in Palm Beach County. 13 Q How long were you an Issue Management 14 Specialist at the District? 15 A Until I transferred to the Regulatory 16 Department. I have to think now, until February of 17 1988. 18 Q And that is when you became what you have 19 termed a Review Coordinator, Developments of Regional 20 Impact? 21 A Yes. 22 Q Tell me about the work you did coordinating 23 and documenting interagency, public meetings for LOTAC 24 II and SWIM Indian River Lagoon? 25 A The LOTAC II council met on about a monthly 10 1 basis from September through March of each year of its 2 existence, and for each meeting my major responsibility 3 was to attend the meeting, make notes about the 4 council, presentations, council discussions, action 5 items that the council members would identify, any 6 votes that were taken and prepare a meeting summary 7 that would highlight those council activities at the 8 meeting. 9 Q Was it also one of your major 10 responsibilities to do a similar type action for the 11 SWIM meetings? 12 A For the Indian River Lagoon, those meetings 13 were SWIM planning meetings that involved two water 14 management districts. So my role there was to perform 15 the similar task when the agencies met together to 16 discuss how they would address Indian River Lagoon SWIM 17 matters. That was in the first year of the Indian 18 River SWIM Lagoon effort and in the SWIM planning 19 effort. 20 Q Did you ever have occasion to prepare 21 summaries for any Everglades SWIM meetings? 22 A Yes, I have. 23 Q Was that part of your responsibilities as an 24 Issue Management Specialist? 25 A Yes. 11 1 Q I notice you have termed yourself after your 2 name on your curriculum vitae Senior Issue Management 3 Specialist, is that correct? 4 A That is my position. 5 Q What does ORA stand for? 6 A Office of Resource Assistance, which is where 7 I was working when this material was prepared. 8 Q When was this curriculum vitae prepared? 9 A August of '89. 10 Q Why did you prepare it? 11 A As a result of the reorganization and the 12 formation of the Planning Department, I was being, the 13 Office of Resource Assistance was being reorganized and 14 I was being transferred into the Planning Department 15 into a new division, and to work for a new division 16 director, Tony Federico. 17 He had asked that all of the members of the 18 newly-organized division or upcoming division, we were 19 not official until October 1, we would prepare a very 20 brief summary of our education and our experience with 21 the District and this is what I repaired in response to 22 that request. 23 Q Is there anything else you want to add to 24 this since the date you prepared this in August 1989? 25 A I don't think so, not at this point. 12 1 Q Why was the promotion -- how did it come 2 about that you became a Review Coordinator for 3 Developments of Regional Impact? 4 A It was an open position in the agency. I was 5 familiar with the regulatory aspects of the District as 6 part of my work with the Public Information Office. 7 I attended regulatory review meetings, as 8 part of my work, to keep informed about regulatory 9 issues, and I was aware of the review or DRI review 10 process. 11 When the position became open, I made some 12 inquiries about it and I applied for it and I was hired 13 for the position. 14 Q You were then transferred over to the Office 15 of Resource Control? 16 A Yes, to accept the position. The Review 17 Coordinator position was in the Resource Control 18 Department. 19 Q This was during a time that the Planning 20 Department -- 21 A No, that was prior to the formation of the 22 Planning Department. I transferred or accepted that 23 position, began work there in February of 1988. 24 Q DRI stands for what? 25 A Development of Regional Impact. 13 1 Q FQD? 2 A Florida Quality Development. 3 Q Your curriculum vitae indicates you 4 contributed to the design and supervised the production 5 of computerized project tracking and mapping report; 6 does that have a specific name? 7 A At that time it was called DRI Tracking 8 Report. 9 Q What is it called now? 10 A I am not certain what its name is now. A 11 similar report is prepared, but I am not sure what its 12 formal title is now. 13 Q This tracking report was only for 14 Developments of Regional Impact? 15 A Yes. 16 Q I would like to go back to your previous job 17 as an Issue Management Specialist. Who was your 18 supervisor during that time? 19 A For most of that time -- I began under the 20 direction of Fred Schiller. Shortly after I began work 21 there, within three or four months, Fred Schiller moved 22 to another division in the District and I began working 23 for, his place was taken by Dick Feeney. 24 Q Did you supervise any other employees? 25 A No. 14 1 Q In your job as a Review Coordinator, who was 2 your supervisor when you started? 3 A Sarah Lockheart. 4 Q Who is it now? 5 A Now? 6 Q Yes. 7 A My supervisor is Sharon Trost. I am sorry, 8 Sharon is my division director. My immediate 9 supervisor is Dean Powell. 10 (Whereupon, Karl Hall, Esq. enters the 11 deposition Room.) 12 BY MS. THRONE-CONTE: 13 Q In your curriculum vitae you refer to your 14 current job as a Senior Management Specialist, correct? 15 A Yes. 16 Q Is that the same as Review Coordinator? 17 A No. 18 Q Tell me what the difference is? 19 A Review Coordinator position was specific to 20 agency reviews of Developments of Regional Impact. 21 Developments of Regional Impact is a land development 22 review process that is administered by the Department 23 of Community Affairs. 24 The Review Coordinator position with the 25 District was devoted to reviewing applications that 15 1 were prepared as part of the Development of Regional 2 Impact process. It is a review process that has 3 existed for sixteen years. It is fairly standardized 4 and I conducted agency reviews, which essentially 5 involved transmitting that application to individuals 6 within the Regulatory Department, that would in turn 7 look more in depth at the water supply elements of that 8 application, the surface water management elements, the 9 natural resources elements and the water quality 10 elements. 11 From their technical reviews, I would prepare 12 requests for additional information and I would prepare 13 final impact assessment reports that summarized 14 concerns that the agency would have with the project, 15 and also provide some indication to the applicant the 16 types of issues that they would need to address when 17 they came back to the Water Management District at some 18 point in the future for a permit from the agency. 19 The Senior Issue Management Specialist 20 position is not as structured. It involves working 21 with primarily external audiences, agencies, groups 22 that the District would like to have be informed about 23 its programs and policies, or groups that may be 24 affected by District programs and policies and would 25 need to have their input brought into our policy 16 1 development process. 2 Q How long have you held that position? 3 A The Senior Issue Management position I have 4 held since February of 1989. 5 Q Who was your supervisor when you got in? 6 A When I returned to Community Relations, 7 Pat Walker was the division director. 8 Q Who is your supervisor now? 9 A My supervisor now is Dean Powell. 10 Q Do you supervise any other employees? 11 A No. 12 Q How many employees have the title Senior 13 Issue Management Specialist at the District? 14 A I know of one other. 15 Q Who is that? 16 A Woodie Vanvoorhees, and he is with the 17 Government Assistance Division. 18 Q Would you consider that you do pretty much 19 the same work? 20 A Yes. 21 Q How would you categorize it, that he is in a 22 different division than you are? 23 A He is working primarily with Indian Affairs. 24 Q What do you work primarily with? 25 A Right now I am working on programs in the 17 1 Upper Kissimmee region of the District. 2 Q Does the scope of your duties now as a Senior 3 Issue Management Specialist include working on the 4 Everglades SWIM Plan? 5 A Not currently. 6 Q When did you stop working on that specific 7 issue? 8 A I think the last time I had any involvement 9 would have been December of last year, 1989. 10 Q How is it that you stopped with this 11 particular area? 12 A My work with Everglades SWIM was geared 13 primarily to working with the Everglades SWIM advisory 14 group. December was the time of their last meeting, 15 and that was when I concluded my activities at that 16 time. 17 Also around December, an opening to take on 18 these responsibilities in the Kissimmee emerged within 19 my same division and I was asked by my division 20 director if I would be interested in working in that 21 area, and I said I would be. So I took on those 22 responsibilities towards the end of December/January 23 1990. 24 Q During what time period were you involved 25 with the SWIM planning process? 18 1 A I was from about March of 1989 through 2 December of 1989. 3 Q What were your primary duties? 4 A My primary duties were to assist the project 5 manager at that time, Joycelyn Branscome with the 6 advisory group, the Everglades SWIM advisory group. 7 Also to assist in preparing, assist Joycelyn in 8 preparing some of the materials that were used for her 9 presentations for the advisory group and to the 10 Governing Board. 11 Q From March of 1989 through December of 1989, 12 were you also involved with preparing summaries for 13 LOTAC II? 14 A Yes. 15 Q What other summaries were you involved with 16 preparing during that time? 17 A I did prepare a summary for internal use 18 relating to a special Governing Board meeting that was 19 held in August to review SWIM, Everglades SWIM issues. 20 Q I am sorry, I didn't catch the name of the 21 group that you prepared that for? 22 A It was just for internal use. It was a 23 public Governing Board meeting. My responsibility was 24 not to prepare the summary for that meeting per se, but 25 to prepare a summary for internal use for people who 19 1 were working on the SWIM Plan, and also to provide some 2 background to the other agencies that we were dealing 3 with, to provide background to LOTAC and to Everglades 4 SWIM advisory group meetings about what was discussed 5 at that particular Governing Board meeting. 6 MS. THRONE-CONTE: For the record, I would 7 like to note that we do have a representative for 8 the cities of Belle Glade and Clewiston. 9 MR. HALL: I represent the cities of 10 Belle Glade and Clewiston. 11 BY MS. THRONE-CONTE: 12 Q Also on the front of your curriculum vitae 13 you have a notation under education concerning your 14 special education. 15 A Yes. 16 Q You say, "This training has come in handy 17 during the last few years." 18 A Yes. 19 Q Please explain that. 20 A Well, the District had gone through quite a 21 bit of readjustments and we had taken on quite a bit of 22 new responsibilities and there were reorganizations 23 going over the last couple of years, and I think that 24 reference was made to indicate that that awareness of 25 how people react to stress and how groups deal with 20 1 each other, how important it is to keep people informed 2 about things that are matters of concern. 3 I felt that that training, that sensitivity 4 to other points of view, stood me in good stead when a 5 lot of that change was going on. 6 Q Would you say it is accurate to say that the 7 type of open communication that you are just talking 8 about is part of your job as a Senior Issue Management 9 Specialist? 10 A Yes. 11 Q It is very important to keep these lines of 12 communication open? 13 A Yes. 14 Q Did you take any courses in getting your 15 Bachelor of Science that had to do with environmental 16 issues or water quality issues? 17 A No. 18 Q Did you have any type of technical background 19 at all? 20 A No, other than what is normally required as a 21 minimum requirement. I had some freshman biology and 22 freshman physics that I needed to take as part of my 23 degree requirements, and that is as technical as my 24 college education became in environmental issues. 25 Q When you first started with the District in 21 1 1978, did you find it difficult dealing with the 2 technical terms and issues? 3 A My audiences were not technical in nature and 4 I, working at the Water Resource Center, I did have an 5 opportunity to education myself about the District over 6 time. 7 I spoke with two very general audiences who 8 did not have any, whose interest was not technical and, 9 therefore, I had time to acquire an understanding of 10 the technical issues from the agency's point of view. 11 At first it was difficult. It did take a while to sort 12 through things, sort things out, but I was not dealing 13 with technical audiences, so it was not a problem. I 14 was dealing with general audiences. 15 Q In preparing documents for the public, is it 16 accurate to say that you review the technical 17 information first, make a summary of it and then 18 disseminate it to the public in some way in your job as 19 a Senior Issue Management Specialist? 20 A I am not sure. In my job as a Senior Issue 21 Management Specialist I am not preparing materials for 22 public education purposes. 23 Q Who are you repairing these for then? 24 A They are meeting summaries that are being 25 prepared for the, in the case of LOTAC, for the council 22 1 itself. 2 Q Would you consider it then that you are 3 preparing summaries of technical issues for other 4 parties who do have some knowledge of the area? 5 A I am preparing a summary of discussions that 6 occur at LOTAC meetings. They are principally geared 7 to provide a record of LOTAC activities. I am not 8 preparing them for any other audience. 9 Q In preparing these summaries, say, for 10 example for LOTAC, did you find that you needed to know 11 the technical aspects of whatever it was you were 12 hearing a summary of in order to be able to accurately 13 summarize it? 14 MS. WATERS: Object to the form of the 15 question. 16 THE WITNESS: Could you rephrase the 17 question? 18 BY MS. THRONE-CONTE: 19 Q In preparing your summaries, say, for example 20 for LOTAC, did you feel that it was necessary that you 21 had an understanding of what it was that you were 22 summarizing in order to make an accurate summary of 23 that issue, whatever it was? 24 A The accuracy of my summaries was based on my 25 review of video tapes of the meetings. If I was 23 1 uncertain or unsure about a particular word that I had 2 heard, I would either use the videotape or consult 3 someone else who was in the meeting, or consult the 4 individual on the council who made the statement. 5 Q If you had questions, would you, say, go to 6 Joycelyn Branscome for guidance? 7 A Not for LOTAC. 8 Q What would you go to her for? 9 A I am not sure I understand the question. 10 Q You stated before that Joycelyn Branscome was 11 your supervisor. 12 A No, I did not. 13 Q I am sorry. How is it that you have a 14 connection with Joycelyn Branscome? 15 A She was the SWIM project manager. 16 Q Was it one of your duties to assist her in 17 special projects? 18 A Yes. Excuse me, no, not in special projects. 19 Only for Everglades SWIM. 20 Q As part of your duties you helped her to 21 prepare presentations, you said, to the Governing 22 Board; is that accurate? 23 A Yes. 24 Q If you had questions on what it was that you 25 were summarizing and preparing, would you go to her for 24 1 guidance? 2 A Well, I assisted her at her request. So if I 3 had -- usually she was pretty specific about the type 4 of material that she would need to have prepared, 5 either overheads or, in many cases, my assistance was 6 just in distributing the information to people who 7 needed to have it in advance of the meeting. 8 If I would have any questions about the 9 instructions that she gave me, yes, certainly I would 10 consult her. 11 Q In assisting the SWIM advisory group, who did 12 you mostly deal with? 13 A I dealt principally with Joycelyn. 14 Q And in preparing summaries for LOTAC II, who 15 did you primarily deal with? 16 A Frank Lund. 17 Q I am going to hand you a document and we can 18 get this marked. Please take a moment to look at it. 19 A (Witness complies.) 20 (Whereupon, Exhibit LS-2 was marked for 21 identification.) 22 BY MS. THRONE-CONTE: 23 Q This has been marked as LS-2. Can you please 24 identify this for me? 25 A It is an original chart for the Environmental 25 1 Planning Division. 2 Q To the best of your knowledge, do you know if 3 this is an accurate representation of the Environmental 4 Planning Division as it stands right now? 5 A As of this date, the Environmental Planning 6 Division does not exist. 7 Q So this is not accurate then? 8 A For present day, that is correct. 9 Q And when did the Environmental Planning 10 Division cease to exist? 11 A That change was made as of October 1st of 12 this year. 13 Q Was there a massive reorganization or just 14 several positions were changed, or how updated is this? 15 A Well, the date is shown at the lower 16 righthand corner of this chart 5/90, May of 1990. 17 There have been significant shifts within the Planning 18 Department since that date. Three divisions were 19 essentially consolidated into two divisions and 20 renamed. 21 Q What three divisions were consolidated into 22 what two divisions? 23 A The three prior, previously existing 24 divisions were Environmental Planning Division, Basin 25 Planning Division and Water Supply Planning Division. 26 1 Q What did they get consolidated into? 2 A They became -- well, as of today they are 3 currently titled the Upper District Planning Division 4 and the Lower District Planning Division. 5 Q Where are you located? 6 A I am not Upper District Planning Division. 7 Q Is Tony Federico still the division director? 8 A He is the director of the Lower District 9 Planning Division. 10 Q And who is the division director of the Upper 11 District? 12 A Sharon Trost. 13 Q You said your immediate supervisor was Dean 14 Powell, correct? 15 A Currently. 16 Q Who is his supervisor? 17 A Sharon Trost. 18 Q Do you know if Philip Lund is in the Lower 19 District? 20 A He is not. 21 Q Do you know where he is located now? 22 A He is with the Government Assistance 23 Division. 24 Q What about Joel Van Arman? 25 A Joel is in the Lower District Planning 27 1 Division. 2 Q What about John Mulliken? 3 A John is with the Lower District Planning 4 Division. 5 Q What about Kevin Rodberg? 6 A Kevin is with the Lower District Planning 7 Division. 8 Q What about Lynn Gulick? 9 A Lynn is also with the Lower District Planning 10 Division. 11 Q Debra Burns? 12 A Same for Debbie. 13 Q What about Paul Whalen? 14 A Lower District Planning Division. 15 Q Eric Flaig? 16 A Lower District Planning Division. 17 Q Dewey Worth? 18 A He is with the Lower District Planning 19 Division. 20 Q Daniel Haunert? 21 A Dan Haunert is with the Upper District 22 Planning Division. 23 Q Sarah Bellmund? 24 A Lower District Planning Division. 25 Q Guy Germain? 28 1 A Lower District Planning Division. 2 Q David Black? 3 A Lower District Planning Division. 4 Q Lorraine Janus? 5 A Lorraine has left the Water Management 6 District. 7 Q David Swift? 8 A Right now Dave is a member of the Upper 9 District Planning Division, I believe. 10 Q You say that with a little bit of hesitancy. 11 A Well, I know he is transferring into the 12 division and I believe it is effective, but I can't be 13 certain. 14 Q Into the Upper District? 15 A Upper District Planning Division. 16 Q What about Herbert Grimshaw? 17 A Lower District Planning Division. 18 Q Brent Moll? 19 A Lower District Planning Division. 20 Q Louise Bos? 21 A Upper District Planning Division. 22 Q Leslie Vilchek? 23 A Upper District Planning Division. 24 Q Patricia Sime? 25 A Upper District Planning Division. 29 1 Q Tamara Germain? 2 A Tammy is currently with the District's Office 3 of Counsel. 4 Q Is Tammy Germain related to Guy Germain? 5 A Yes. 6 Q Are they husband and wife? 7 A Yes, they are. 8 Q When you were involved with the Everglades 9 SWIM Plan, did this represent, did this exhibit LS-2 10 represent an accurate reflection of how the division 11 was set up? 12 A LS-2 represents an accurate picture of the 13 division only during my involvement with Everglades 14 SWIM only from roughly September of 1989 onward to the 15 conclusion of my involvement with Everglades SWIM in 16 December. 17 Q How was it different before that, before 18 September 1989? 19 A I was part of the Office of Resource 20 Assistance, Community Relations Division and this 21 Planning Division did not exist at that time. So all 22 of the people on here were elsewhere. 23 Q I am sorry, I don't understand. I thought 24 you said that you were with the Office of Resource 25 Assistance from 1985 to 1988? 30 1 A Yes. 2 Q And then from February of 1988 to February of 3 1989 you worked with the Office of Resource Control, is 4 that right? 5 A Say that again. 6 Q From February 1988 to February of 1989 you 7 worked with the Office of Resource Control as a Review 8 Coordinator for the DRI? 9 A Right. 10 Q And then from February 1988 to, excuse me, 11 February of 1989 to, I guess it would be, January of 12 1990 you have been working -- 13 A No. 14 Q Or from February 1989 to the present you were 15 working as a Senior Management Specialist? 16 A No. That is my title, yes. 17 Q I am sorry then, I guess I don't understand 18 how your title is different from the different offices 19 that you have been in. 20 A My title is not different. My title has 21 remained the same. The division in which I am working 22 has changed. 23 Q So in February 1988 you were working in the 24 Office of Resource Control as a Review Coordinator? 25 A Yes. 31 1 Q And it is my understanding that that job 2 evolved into the Senior Issue Management Specialist 3 because of the change in the division? 4 A No. 5 Q Then how did you get to be a Senior Issue 6 Management Specialist? 7 A There was an open position in the division of 8 Community Relations, which was in the Office of 9 Resource Assistance. I applied for that open position 10 and was hired by Pat Walker, who was the director of 11 Community Relations at that time. So I returned to the 12 Community Relations Division to accept the position, 13 the title that I now hold, Senior Issue Management 14 Specialist. 15 Q As a Senior Issue Management Specialist, it 16 was during that time from March of 1989 through 17 December of 1989 when you worked on the Everglades SWIM 18 Plan? 19 A Correct. 20 Q When you rejoined the Office of Research 21 Assistance in February of 1989 -- 22 A Resource Assistance. 23 Q Office of Resource Assistance, how did the 24 division look as compared to exhibit LS-2? How was it 25 different? 32 1 A The Community Relations Division was composed 2 of Senior Issue Management Specialist that worked on a 3 variety of District activities. It was mostly 4 coordinating with external entities. 5 Many of the professionals were also assigned 6 to a support staff to local government assistance 7 programs and to support local government 8 representatives in those efforts. 9 There were people in that division who -- the 10 division no longer exists as a result of the 11 reorganization that resulted in the creation of the 12 Planning Department. 13 Q Is there a Senior Issue Management Specialist 14 or some type of Issue Management Specialist assigned to 15 each of the divisions? 16 A No. 17 Q Other than Woodie Vanvoorhees, do you know of 18 anyone else who holds a similar type of position in the 19 District? 20 A No, I don't know of any other. 21 Q I am going to hand you another document we 22 will mark as LS-3. 23 (Whereupon, Exhibit LS-3 was marked for 24 identification.) 25 33 1 BY MS. THRONE-CONTE: 2 Q Can you please identify Exhibit LS-3? 3 A It is a distribution list relating to 4 distribution of SWIM materials within the Water 5 Management District. 6 Q And is your name included on it? 7 A Yes, it is. 8 Q To the best of your knowledge, did this 9 represent an accurate list of the people who were 10 contacted concerning SWIM documents and SWIM planning 11 and process review. 12 MR. HALL: Object to the form. 13 THE WITNESS: Would you rephrase the 14 question, please? 15 BY MS. THRONE-CONTE: 16 Q To the best of your knowledge, did this 17 represent, as of March 1st, 1989, the date that is on 18 it, an accurate representation of the parties who were 19 contacted concerning Everglades SWIM Plan? 20 MS. WATERS: Object to the form of the 21 question. 22 THE WITNESS: The distribution list may not 23 have been all inclusive. These were people who 24 were -- this was used to distribute materials to 25 primarily people who were involved in steering 34 1 committee activities. 2 BY MS. THRONE-CONTE: 3 Q Was there a separate distribution list for 4 Everglades SWIM Plan? 5 A I don't know of one. 6 Q Was it part of your duties, and I am going to 7 be focusing on the time that you were involved with the 8 Everglades SWIM Plan for quite a while, so you know 9 exactly what I am talking about, was it part of your 10 duties in carrying out that function to distribute 11 documents to scientists, to other people in the 12 District? 13 A Yes. 14 Q Did you have a distribution list you worked 15 off of? 16 A The distribution list I used was to 17 distribute documents relating to Everglades advisory 18 committee meetings. That was in the spring of 1989, 19 and I did -- this would have been the list that I would 20 have used to distribute Everglades SWIM materials to. 21 Q Was there a different distribution list for 22 the SWIM advisory group. 23 A I am not sure I understand what you mean. 24 Q The way I understand what you just said, this 25 could be accurately used if you were to distribute to 35 1 Everglades SWIM Plan people in the District; is that 2 right? 3 A Some of the people on this list were working 4 on Everglades SWIM in particular. This list, its title 5 is General SWIM Distribution List, which means all SWIM 6 planning activities. 7 Q So I asked if there was a specific one for 8 Everglades SWIM Plan? 9 A I answered I did not know of one specific to 10 Everglades SWIM. 11 Q If you needed to send something out to people 12 who were involved with the Everglades SWIM Plan, could 13 you use this list? 14 A I could. Not everyone on this list was 15 working on Everglades SWIM. 16 Q If you needed to contact the people working 17 on Everglades SWIM, how would you do it? 18 A Well, in March of 1989, work was really 19 beginning in earnest on the plan, so at that time it 20 was organizational. In context, I would have consulted 21 with Joycelyn Branscome at that time about who needed 22 to be provided materials if she did not specify. 23 Q To the best of your knowledge, do you know if 24 there was a specific distribution list for Everglades 25 SWIM Plan, District employees? 36 1 MR. HALL: Objection, asked and answered. 2 MS. WATERS: Asked and answered. 3 THE WITNESS: I do not know. 4 BY MS. THRONE-CONTE: 5 Q Was there a specific distribution list for 6 LOTAC II committee meeting documents? 7 A The LOTAC meeting documents were distributed 8 to the council. Each meeting summary would return to 9 the council at its next meeting, and they were reviewed 10 and approved as the meeting summary and it became a 11 matter of record. 12 There was no standard list of distribution. 13 Anyone who requested a meeting summary could be 14 provided with one. 15 Q How many different committees or groups were 16 you involved with at the time that you were Senior 17 Issue Management Specialist in the course of your 18 duties? 19 A In addition to working with the LOTAC II and 20 with the Everglades SWIM advisory group, I did do some 21 meeting coordination, coordination of public meetings 22 associated with the rule-making procedures associated 23 with the work of the District rule. 24 I also assisted in preparing several public 25 meetings having to do with District water shortage 37 1 activities that were going on in the spring of that 2 year. 3 Q Did you ever do any work with or for the SWIM 4 steering committee? 5 A I attended those committee meetings. 6 Q Was it part of your duties to attend those 7 committee meetings? 8 A Yes. 9 Q How many did you attend? Were they weekly, 10 biweekly? 11 A The schedule varied. 12 Q When did you start attending them? 13 A When I rejoined the Office of Resource 14 Assistance in March of 1989. It would have been the 15 first time I would have attended a SWIM steering 16 committee meeting. 17 Q What was the purpose of the SWIM steering 18 committee meeting? 19 A Informational, for the most part, to gather 20 people who were working on various aspects of SWIM 21 planning throughout the District and to report progress 22 on SWIM plans that were in development or plans that 23 were being updated, and to discuss personnel 24 allocations, to discuss, plan whatever public meetings 25 or board presentations or briefings that needed to 38 1 occur either within the District or outside the agency. 2 Q Approximately how often did the committee 3 meet? 4 A I am really not certain. Initially it was 5 weekly and then at some point it became biweekly. 6 Q Where were these meetings held? 7 A In District conference rooms. 8 Q Did you make a written summary of these 9 meetings? 10 A I did not, no. 11 Q Do you know if there was a written summary 12 ever done? 13 A Summaries were prepared. 14 Q Who prepared them? 15 A Ginger Brooks. 16 Q What is her title at the District? 17 A I don't know her title. 18 Q Is she a support staff or technician or can 19 you categorize her? 20 A She is support staff. I am not sure to whom 21 she reports directly at this time. 22 Q If you needed to get a copy of minutes or 23 whatever from the steering committee, would you talk to 24 Ginger? 25 A I would go to her first to obtain a copy, 39 1 yes. 2 Q Tell me about the advisory committee; when 3 did you first become involved with that? 4 A In March. 5 Q And that is also when you got back to that 6 division? 7 A Yes. 8 Q Was the advisory committee in existence 9 before you got transferred back? 10 A Yes. 11 Q What was the purpose behind the advisory 12 committee? 13 A They were representatives of government 14 agencies, environmental groups, agricultural industry, 15 organizations that were within the Everglades SWIM 16 planning area boundaries. 17 Q What was the extent of your participation in 18 this committee? 19 A I attended advisory group meetings, assisted 20 in the preparation of some staff presentations that 21 were made, principally presentations made by Joycelyn 22 Branscome. 23 I did do some follow-up to the meetings. If 24 there were advisory group members that needed any 25 additional information that the District had, I 40 1 arranged for that to be provided. I did work to try to 2 list discussion items that occurred during advisory 3 group meetings for follow-up in whatever way was 4 appropriate, either if it was relevant to SWIM Plan 5 development, if it was issues that would need to be 6 addressed at the following meeting in some fashion, I 7 prepared those sorts of summaries based on advisory 8 group discussion. 9 Q Besides the summaries that you prepared, was 10 there anyone else who was given the task of making a 11 formal written record of these meetings? 12 A No. 13 Q So if there are any summaries that exist at 14 all, they would be ones that you authored? 15 A Yes, and they are informal. They were not, 16 the advisory group was not formed to function as a 17 decision making group, but rather to provide input to 18 the development of the SWIM Plan. 19 So we did not seek votes or consensus or 20 decisions from them necessarily, and so they were not 21 provided with formal meeting summaries that they signed 22 off on. The notes I made were for internal use. 23 Q Who did you address the summaries to? 24 A They were not formally addressed. They were 25 notes that I would sometimes prepare if, at a later 41 1 date, they were relevant to presentations that were 2 being held or in planning for public meetings. 3 If we begin to see the same issues 4 reoccurring, people who had to plan those, either 5 writers of the SWIM Plan or people, District staff 6 making presentations at public meetings, board meetings 7 needed to be aware that these concerns existed. The 8 concerns I elicited from the advisory group were part 9 of preparing for those events. 10 Q Were the summaries routinely reviewed or 11 looked at by anyone at the District? 12 A They were discussed within the Community 13 Relations Division by myself and Joycelyn Branscome and 14 Pat Walker. 15 Q What action, if any, would come out of these 16 discussions with the Community Relations Division? 17 A It depended on the nature of the issues. 18 Sometimes it would be to let other agency people know 19 who would have to respond to those issues at a later 20 date, that this question had been raised. It was 21 informal discussion mostly. 22 Q If someone in the advisory committee 23 expressed a concern, say, about the Everglades SWIM 24 Plan and you summarized this, and I take it then it 25 went to the Community Relations Division for some type 42 1 of discussion, or is it possible that this concern 2 could be replayed back to the people who were actually 3 writing the SWIM Plan at that time? 4 A Yes. 5 Q Did that happen quite often? 6 MS. WATERS: Object to the form. 7 THE WITNESS: It happened as necessary. 8 BY MS. THRONE-CONTE: 9 Q Do you remember any issues in which this 10 happened? 11 A I don't recall any specific issue. 12 Q Is there any documentary thing that would 13 help you remember that? 14 A My notes, whatever notes that I made as a 15 result of the meeting are in my files which have been 16 provided. 17 Q Were you responsible for following through 18 with anything that was brought out in the advisory 19 committee, to take it back to say the Everglades SWIM 20 planning team, whoever was writing the SWIM Plan? 21 A No. 22 Q Whose responsibility was that? 23 A That determination was made by Joycelyn. 24 Q And she would normally, in the course of her 25 duties, assign someone to look into the matter more? 43 1 A I am not sure how she would have followed up 2 with that. 3 Q But are you aware that there was some 4 follow-up on certain issues coming out of the advisory 5 committee? 6 MS. WATERS: Objection, no facts in evidence. 7 THE WITNESS: I don't have any direct 8 knowledge of what particular episodes she may have 9 conveyed. 10 BY MS. THRONE-CONTE: 11 Q What knowledge do you have, if any, of the 12 hydrology committee? 13 A I am not familiar with that. 14 Q What knowledge, if any, do you have of the 15 SWIM planning committee? 16 A I don't know of a specific committee by that 17 name. 18 Q What about the Hydroperiod Task Group? 19 A I know only that one existed. I am not 20 familiar with it other than there was a group that was 21 formed that had that name. 22 Q Do you have any knowledge as to what its 23 purpose was? 24 A No. 25 Q Do you know of anyone who was on that task 44 1 group? 2 A I can't recall. 3 Q What about the Water Quality Task Team? 4 A I am not familiar with that group. 5 Q What about the Philosophy Group? 6 A No. 7 Q What about the C-111 Task Team? 8 A I am not familiar with that group. 9 Q If I wanted to identify members of these 10 different groups and find out what they were all about, 11 who would you suggest I talk to at the District? 12 A Joycelyn Branscome. 13 Q Between March of 1989 and December 1989, when 14 you were working on the Everglades SWIM Plan, 15 approximately how much of your time was devoted to 16 doing that? 17 A From March through around July, I would say 18 about a quarter of my time was spent with Everglades. 19 From July through, I would say, the end of September, 20 when the first draft was being finalized and we were 21 getting ready for public meetings on the plan, about 22 seventy-five percent of my time. 23 Q What about from September of 1989 to December 24 of 1989? 25 A It would be even less than a quarter of my 45 1 time. 2 Q In the course of your duties, how much actual 3 contact did you have with the people who were writing 4 the Everglades SWIM Plan? 5 A Very minimal contact. 6 Q Would you be able to identify what scientists 7 or what group of scientists wrote any portion of any 8 part of the SWIM Plan? 9 A No. 10 Q If I wanted to find this information out, who 11 would you suggest I contact? 12 A Either Joycelyn Branscome or Paul Whalen. 13 Q Do you have any idea as to what group of 14 scientists would write different sessions of the SWIM 15 Plan? 16 A I don't have any firsthand knowledge of that. 17 Q Would then the knowledge you have be just 18 what you have heard or can you explain that a little 19 bit? 20 A I am aware of the people who were working on 21 the SWIM Plan, but I don't know what particular 22 portions. 23 Q Do you know or have knowledge as to how 24 scientists were assigned to work on various portions of 25 the SWIM Plan? 46 1 A No, I don't. 2 Q Do you have any knowledge as to whether any 3 part of the Everglades SWIM Plan was written by a 4 non-District employee? 5 A I have no such knowledge. 6 Q Or any other type of third person? 7 A No. 8 Q Are you aware of any outside contractors who 9 were hired to do parts of the SWIM Plan? 10 A Not to write the SWIM Plan, no. 11 Q In what capacity were the outside contractors 12 hired then? 13 A To the best of my knowledge, to compile 14 available information that would assist in preparation 15 of the SWIM Plan. 16 Q Do you know how these contractors were hired, 17 what process they had to go through? 18 A No, I don't. 19 Q Who would be responsible for carrying out 20 that capacity in the District? 21 A I am not sure I understand what you mean. 22 Q Who would be responsible for hiring any 23 outside contractors for the SWIM Plan? 24 A I don't know. 25 Q To the best of your knowledge, do you know 47 1 who would be responsible for reviewing the work that 2 they did? 3 A The work that the contractors did? 4 Q Yes. 5 A I don't know. 6 Q If you needed to find out that information, 7 who would you seek in the District? 8 A I would consult either Joycelyn Branscome or 9 Paul Whalen. 10 Q What is Joycelyn Branscome's position at the 11 District? 12 A I am not certain what her current title is. 13 Q When you were working with her on various 14 issues relative to the Everglades SWIM Plan, what was 15 her title? 16 A During that time she was a Technical Program 17 Coordinator. 18 Q And what is your understanding of a -- pardon 19 me, what is it? 20 A Technical Program Coordinator. 21 Q What was your understanding of her duties? 22 A To help prepare programs, work products that 23 have to do with technical policy making at the 24 District. 25 Q Is it your understanding that her main 48 1 capacity was involved with the Everglades SWIM Plan? 2 MS. WATERS: Object to the form. 3 THE WITNESS: My knowledge of her and her 4 responsibilities were related to her work on the 5 Everglades SWIM Plan. 6 BY MS. THRONE-CONTE: 7 Q Do you know if she had other duties besides 8 the Everglades SWIM Plan? 9 A I am not aware of any other. 10 Q What was Paul Whalen's position at the time 11 you were working on the Everglades SWIM Plan? 12 A I am not sure what his -- I think Paul was a 13 supervising professional. I think that is his title, 14 was then and still is. 15 Q What does a supervising professional do at 16 the District? 17 A supervising professionals do have staff 18 employees whose work they supervise. It involves 19 administrative tasks associated with merit reviews and 20 job classifications and that sort of thing. 21 Q Does it also involve technical review of work 22 that is being done by their employees that they 23 supervise? 24 A If they are supervising technical people, 25 yes. There are supervising professionals that deal 49 1 with non-technical work. It is a very generic job 2 title at the District. 3 Q I want to ask you more about the 4 organization. It seems like every four months things 5 are switching over there. 6 It is my understanding, correct me if I am 7 wrong, the Office of Resource Assistance and the 8 Resource Planning Departments were merged into the 9 Department of Research and Evaluation at one point? 10 A No, they were not merged. 11 Q What is an Office of Resource Assistance, 12 first of all? 13 A The Office of Resource Assistance was 14 comprised of, well, that has changed shape over time, 15 but they deal primarily with government relations and 16 community relations; dealt, I should say. 17 Q Pardon me? 18 A They dealt with those issues. 19 Q How were they reformed; to what? 20 A Some of the local government representatives 21 went to the Planning Department as the Government 22 Assistance Group. My division director, Community 23 Relations Division Director, is currently directing the 24 Comp Planning Division, or she is assistant director of 25 the Comp Planning Division in the Planning Department. 50 1 Frank Lund and I were moved from Community 2 Relations into the Environmental Planning Division and 3 several other Issue Specialists were transferred into 4 the Office of Communications, which is not part of the 5 Planning Department. 6 Q Is the Environmental Planning Division part 7 of the Planning Department? 8 A It was, yes. 9 Q Does it stand alone now? I mean, now I 10 thought it was divided into Upper and Lower District 11 Divisions? 12 A It is. Initially the Planning Department was 13 formed based on disciplines. You would find 14 hydrogeologists working for the Water Supply Division. 15 You would find engineers working for the Basin Planning 16 Division, you would find environmental working for the 17 Environmental Planning Division. 18 The reorganization within the Planning 19 Department that occurred most recently was reconfigured 20 along geographic areas that would allow people from 21 each of those disciplines to work together on a 22 particular project rather than having projects assigned 23 to a discpline and have that person have to go out and 24 get that expertise somewhere else. 25 For the most part, most of the people 51 1 continued to work on the same assignments that they 2 were previously working on. It was a matter of 3 organizational housekeeping to shift the emphasis away 4 from a discpline and to a program, a regional program 5 point of view. 6 Q Is there now a person dealing with Government 7 Assistance working in each of the divisions? 8 A No. 9 Q But there is one working for the Upper 10 District Division and the Lower District Division? 11 A No. I am working for the Upper District 12 Division. The other person with my same title is 13 working with the Government Assistance Program. That 14 is a different division. 15 Q That is Philip Lund? 16 A No. I was speaking of Woodie Vanvoorhees. 17 Q What was it that Philip Lund did before this 18 big breakup? You said he had been transferred to the 19 Government Assistance Division. 20 MS. WATERS: Object to the characterization 21 big "breakup." 22 MS. THRONE-CONTE: I will rephrase it. 23 BY MS. THRONE-CONTE: 24 Q When the Planning Division was reorganized, 25 where did Philip Lund go? 52 1 A Philip Lund, he was not affected by the 2 Planning Division reorganization. 3 Q So where is he now? 4 A He is with the Government Assistance Program. 5 He applied for and there was an open position, 6 therefore, which he applied and was hired prior to the 7 time that the Planning Department reorganized. 8 Q Is he with the Lower District Division? 9 A No, he is not. 10 Q So he is in a totally separate part of the 11 District then? 12 A He is with the Government Assistance Division 13 in the Planning Department. 14 Q What other divisions are there in the 15 Planning Department? 16 A There is the Upper District Planning Division 17 and the Lower District Planning Division, the Division 18 of Government Assistance, the Comp Plan Review Division 19 and the Kissimmee River Restoration Division. 20 Q Currently, under which division are the 21 people who work on the Everglades SWIM Plan? 22 A Primarily in the Lower District Planning 23 Division. 24 Q Why were several of these divisions 25 reorganized, to the best of your knowledge? 53 1 A Which divisions are you speaking about? 2 Q Let's start off with the Environmental 3 Planning Division. 4 MS. WATERS: Objection, asked and answered. 5 THE WITNESS: The Environmental Planning 6 Division was part of an effort to consolidate 7 three divisions into two. 8 BY MS. THRONE-CONTE: 9 Q Is it accurate to say then that this was part 10 of the emphasis, to revise the District to follow more 11 geographic lines than disciplinary lines? 12 A That is my statement, yes. 13 Q During your work on the Everglades SWIM Plan, 14 did you have occasion to speak with Mr. MacVicar in any 15 capacity? 16 MS. WATERS: Object to the form of the 17 question. It is overly broad. 18 THE WITNESS: I met with Mr. MacVicar only 19 once in connection with Everglades SWIM. 20 BY MS. THRONE-CONTE: 21 Q When was that? 22 A That was sometime during the fall in order to 23 discuss the upcoming meeting of the Everglades SWIM 24 advisory group. 25 Q What was the substance of your conversation? 54 1 A It was essentially to review with him the 2 agenda for the meeting. He was attending, I believe 3 for the first time, and I reviewed for him very briefly 4 what, how we had handled meeting agendas up until that 5 point, and there was a meeting scheduled for December 6 that we were discussing. 7 (Whereupon, Richard Harrison, Esq. entered 8 the deposition room and Carole Fernandez, Esq. 9 exited the deposition room.) 10 BY MS. THRONE-CONTE: 11 Q Have you had occasion to speak with 12 Mr. Wodraska during your tenure working on the 13 Everglades SWIM Plan? 14 A No. 15 Q Did you have occasion to prepare any 16 briefings for the District Governing Board during your 17 tenure working on the Everglades SWIM Plan? 18 A Some materials were prepared as part of 19 backup to Governing Board meetings, yes. 20 Q Could you explain a little bit more what you 21 mean? 22 A I did provide some summaries of LOTAC 23 discussions relating to Everglades SWIM, only as part 24 of Governing Board backup materials, and also some 25 summaries of issues that were raised during public 55 1 meetings of the first draft, public meetings that were 2 held in August and September. 3 Q What is Governing Board backup material? 4 A They are folders that are distributed to the 5 Board in advance of each monthly meeting that contain 6 backup information that is relevant to the agenda items 7 that are coming up. 8 Q Are these documents attached and made part of 9 the record of that meeting? 10 A They are public information materials. I 11 don't know that. Unless they are referred to 12 specifically during the course of the Governing Board 13 discussion, they would be made part of the record in 14 that effect. 15 Q If they are not discussed as part of the 16 record, how do you know that they are public 17 information? 18 A They are public information in that they are 19 available to the public upon request. 20 Q Typically what would be contained in one of 21 these Governing Board backup material? 22 A It depends on the nature of the agenda item. 23 Q Would there be staff recommendations or 24 summaries? 25 A That would be included. Agenda items are 56 1 distributed at the meetings and to a mailing list in 2 advance of the Governing Board meetings. Anyone who 3 wanted to see the Board backup for a particular agenda 4 item can request it. 5 Q Were these Governing Board backup materials 6 distributed with an agenda to parties or these were 7 only available if you asked for them? 8 A They were available upon request. 9 Q If you wanted to get any of these documents 10 from the Governing Board backup materials, where would 11 you go to get these documents? 12 A The executive office. 13 Q Do you know if you would need a specific date 14 and then you would get the materials or are they stored 15 by subject matter? 16 A They are stored by meeting date. 17 Q What is your knowledge, if any, of a group 18 called Executive Council? 19 A That is a group comprised of department 20 directors and deputies at the Water Management 21 District. It also includes the Executive Director and 22 deputy directors. 23 Q Does that also include the Office of Counsel? 24 A Yes, it does. 25 Q In your work that you did for the Everglades 57 1 SWIM Plan, did you ever prepare any documents for the 2 Executive Council? 3 A No. 4 Q Do you know if your files were provided to 5 the United States for inspection? 6 A I assume they were. I do not know that for a 7 fact. 8 Q Did you at any time physically put together 9 your files for the Government's inspection? 10 A I am not sure I understand what you mean by 11 put them together. 12 Q Did someone come in your office and look 13 through your files and determine what was relevant to 14 the Government's request for documents, or did you get 15 a directive that you could do that yourself? 16 A No. Someone came into my office and asked me 17 where materials were located and indicated that they 18 would be reviewing what was in my office area. 19 Q Who was that? 20 A I don't remember a name. I have been asked 21 for the files twice and I don't remember -- I think the 22 first time was a gentleman named Frost. The second 23 time were District attorneys. 24 Q Did you review the documents that were 25 removed from your office in any way? 58 1 A No. 2 Q Do you have any idea at all of what was 3 turned over for inspection? 4 A I have a general idea of the contents. 5 Q What is your understanding of that? 6 A Notes, memos, drafts of meeting summaries 7 that I was working on in connection with the Everglades 8 advisory group, some meeting summaries from steering 9 committee meetings and notes that I may have made, very 10 preliminary, very rough lists of water resource issues 11 that were during sort of like a brain storming period 12 before the SWIM Plan was actually being written, but 13 when we were still trying to make sure that we were 14 coming up with a complete list of issues and problems 15 that should be addressed in some fashion, some copies 16 of transparencies and overheads that were prepared as 17 part of staff presentations to the advisory group. 18 Q Was it within the course of your duties to 19 normally keep transparencies? 20 A I didn't keep the transparencies, I kept 21 paper copies just to assist as part of my record 22 keeping, if someone would refer to those that I would 23 have a copy handy to refer to myself. 24 Q In any of your work in the Everglades SWIM 25 Plan, was the Federal lawsuit ever discussed? 59 1 A No, not directly. It was mentioned from time 2 to time, but not discussed. No, I couldn't say that. 3 Q Who mentioned it? 4 A In passing conversation that there is, that 5 it was occurring and that it was looking at the same 6 issues that we were dealing with in the Everglades SWIM 7 Plan. 8 Q Were there any type of tone or emotion that 9 went along with these discussions? 10 MS. WATERS: Object to the form of the 11 question. 12 THE WITNESS: I can't recall any particular 13 emotion or tone, other than as a matter of course 14 that it was occurring. 15 BY MS. THRONE-CONTE: 16 Q Were there any specific concerns raised that 17 you knew about? 18 A No. At that time during that period that I 19 was working on Everglades SWIM, the lawsuit was in the 20 background and there was a great deal of effort on the 21 part of people working with Everglades SWIM to not pay 22 attention to that, that that was a separate effort and 23 preparing the plan was first and foremost at that time 24 when the first draft was being prepared, and the 25 lawsuit was really not an issue. 60 1 Q When did it become more of an issue or come 2 off the back burner, as you say? 3 MS. WATERS: Object to the form of the 4 question. I want to note the testimony that the 5 efforts didn't come off the back burner. 6 BY MS. THRONE-CONTE: 7 Q At any time, in your opinion, did it come off 8 the back burner for the scientists at the District? 9 A For the scientists at the District, I can't 10 speak for them. 11 Q Who can you speak for? 12 A Myself and my activities associated with the 13 SWIM planning efforts, and for me the impact really was 14 not felt until document production began and people's 15 files were being removed and that began to have an 16 impact, yes. 17 MS. THRONE-CONTE: Do you want to break for 18 lunch now? It is twelve o'clock. Let's meet back 19 at one. 20 (Whereupon, there was a luncheon recess.) 21 BY MS. THRONE-CONTE: 22 Q Ms. Smith, pursuant to the subpoena duces 23 tecum, I understand that you provided this document for 24 my review. I understand that if I wish to request it, 25 Counsel will arrange for copies of all the documents? 61 1 MS. WATERS: That document, I can provide 2 copies of those today (handing). 3 BY MS. THRONE-CONTE: 4 Q Ms. Smith, you wrote this while you were 5 employed by the South Florida Water Management 6 District? 7 A Yes. 8 (Whereupon, Exhibit LS-4 was marked for 9 identification.) 10 BY MS. THRONE-CONTE: 11 Q Please briefly describe what this "In Depth 12 Report" is about? 13 A Its title is "The Challenge of Water 14 Management" and it describes efforts to manage water 15 resources in the South Florida area from the mid-1800s 16 up to when the Water Resources Act of 1972 was enacted. 17 Q Is it accurate to say that this publication 18 represents an official position by the South Florida 19 Water Management District? 20 MS. WATERS: Object to the form of the 21 question. 22 MR. HALL: Objection, the document speaks for 23 itself, secondly, facts not in evidence. 24 THE WITNESS: The document represents a 25 history of water management efforts. Not all of 62 1 those efforts are Water Management District 2 efforts. It is a history of agencies and 3 activities that preceded the existence of the 4 South Florida Water Management District. 5 BY MS. THRONE-CONTE: 6 Q Were you requested to write this document in 7 the discharge of your normal duties? 8 A Yes. 9 Q Was the content of this document approved by 10 the Executive Office or the Governing Board before its 11 publication? 12 A The Executive Office. 13 MS. WATERS: Object to the form of the 14 question. 15 THE WITNESS: The Executive Office did review 16 the document prior to publication. 17 BY MS. THRONE-CONTE: 18 Q And they made comments revisions or in some 19 way did review it, though? 20 A They did review it, yes. 21 Q In the course of your duties, over the last, 22 I guess it would be about what, eleven years working at 23 the South Florida Water Management District? 24 A I have worked there thirteen years as of 25 March. 63 1 Q Let's just take since your duties as Issue 2 Management Specialist and a Senior Issue Management 3 Specialist, was it your position to write documents 4 that would be issued to the public? 5 A That was the audience for most of the 6 materials I prepared. 7 Q Were those documents approved or in some way 8 reviewed by the Executive Office or the Governing 9 Board? 10 MS. WATERS: Object to the form of the 11 question. 12 THE WITNESS: Some were and some were not. 13 BY MS. THRONE-CONTE: 14 Q What would cause some to be reviewed and 15 others not? 16 A Depending on the nature of the publication, 17 if it was dealing with an issue that was currently 18 active and unresolved and in some way controversial, 19 then there was additional review outside of the Office 20 of Public Information. 21 If they were materials that were very broad 22 and dealt with existing Water Management District 23 programs and were mainly limited to updating 24 information, then it would not necessarily go outside 25 the office or to the Executive Office for their review. 64 1 Q Your summaries of the advisory committee, 2 were they reviewed by the Governing Board or the 3 Executive Office? 4 A Summaries were provided to the Governing 5 Board for their information. 6 Q But they were not specifically, they did not 7 have to be reviewed before they could be distributed to 8 either other agencies or scientists within the 9 District? 10 A Right. 11 Q Did you ever have occasion to speak with 12 anyone from the Sugar Cane League during the course of 13 your activities working on the Everglades SWIM Plan? 14 A No. 15 Q Have you had the occasion to speak with 16 anyone from the Florida Sugar Cane League in any other 17 capacity? 18 A No. 19 Q Have you had occasion to speak with anyone 20 from the Institute of Food and Agricultural Science? 21 A No. 22 Q As part of your duties relating to the 23 Everglades SWIM Plan, did you have the occasion to 24 review any or all of the Everglades SWIM plans? 25 A I did not -- I have seen a portion of the 65 1 first draft having to do with a description, a broad 2 description of water quality issues in the first draft 3 of the SWIM Plan. 4 Q That would be the 1989 draft? 5 A Right. 6 Q Would that be the executive summary and the 7 policy statements? 8 A I believe the portion that I was involved 9 with became Volume II, the issues volume, not the 10 executive summary. 11 Q Was it within the normal course of your work 12 to review text that would be later included in one of 13 the volumes or did you see it after it was included? 14 A I did not review it. I was not a reviewer of 15 that text. I did see it in the context of other people 16 who were asked to review that portion, and I made some 17 notes that indicated reviewer's comments, and I 18 compiled that for other people to revise or incorporate 19 in the section of the SWIM Plan. 20 Q Who was assigned to review the first draft of 21 the Everglades SWIM Plan? 22 A There were a number of people. It was 23 routinely distributed to department directors and 24 deputy directors. I don't recall. 25 Q If you looked back at Exhibit LS-3, would 66 1 that help to refresh any names that may have done that? 2 A There are some people on this list that were 3 asked to review, that I can recall. 4 Q Who is that? 5 A Irene Quincey, Bonnie Kranzer, Mike Slayton, 6 Bill Malone, Jeanne Hall, Dick Rogers, Tony Federico, 7 Pete Rhoads. Those are the only names on this list 8 that I can recall specifically. 9 Q If I wanted to find out who the reviewers 10 were for the Everglades SWIM plan, who would you 11 suggest I contact? 12 A Joycelyn Branscome. 13 Q Are you aware of whether these people, who 14 you have identified as reviewers, continued as 15 reviewers throughout the entire SWIM process or there 16 were different groups for different drafts of the SWIM 17 Plan? 18 A I am not aware of their involvement outside 19 that first round for that particular section that I 20 saw. 21 Q So you have no knowledge as to whether there 22 may have been other people or identities that were 23 switched later on? 24 A Right. 25 Q You said you have seen, to use your own 67 1 words, "portions of Volume II or the draft of Volume 2 II." What other parts of the SWIM Plan have you seen? 3 A I have seen the portions of the SWIM Plan 4 that were, the draft that was published in the fall of 5 1998. 6 Q 1989? 7 A Yes, I am sorry. Yes, that is what I mean. 8 Q Would that be the August 1989 draft? 9 A The August 1989 draft and the executive 10 summary that was published later, I believe. 11 Q Did you ever review Volume III with the 12 technical summary in it? 13 A No. 14 Q Why did you review any part of the SWIM Plan 15 at all? 16 A I did not review it. I was not a technical 17 reviewer. I was compiling the comments of other 18 reviewers. 19 Q Why is it that you read any part of the SWIM 20 Plan at all? 21 A In connection with the editing of the final 22 draft. 23 Q So you participating in the editing of the 24 final draft? 25 A Of the final draft. Okay, the editing of the 68 1 first draft that was published in August of 1989. 2 Q How much were you involved with the editing 3 of that draft? 4 A Just a small portion of the issues section, 5 the overall description of water quality issues and 6 environmental issues that was later incorporated in 7 Volume II. 8 Q You stated that one of your jobs was to 9 compile the comments from other reviewers? 10 A Yes. 11 Q How specifically did this assignment come up? 12 A I am not sure what you mean by that. 13 Q How did you get assigned to do that? 14 A I was asked by Joycelyn Branscome to become 15 involved in it and it evolved, as the copies that were 16 distributed to the reviewers came back, to be 17 incorporated in a final draft document. 18 Q Were these reviews that were just the first 19 draft of the SWIM Plan? 20 A I am not sure what you mean by "just the 21 first draft." 22 Q What time period are we talking about? 23 A We are talking about July. 24 Q Of 1989? 25 A Right. 69 1 Q Were you involved with the reviewing of 2 comments after the first draft of the SWIM Plan came 3 out in August of 1989? 4 A No. 5 Q So you didn't do any of that type of work 6 then after just that one episode? 7 A Correct. 8 Q What kind of summaries did you compile? 9 A I didn't compile summaries. I had a copy of 10 the text and I indicated on that copy where reviewers 11 had commented and the substance of their comments. 12 Q And what did you then do with this document? 13 A That was provided to Joel Van Arman. 14 Q Did you just write on the copy or did you do 15 some type of summary of what problems or whatever that 16 you saw? 17 A I just wrote on the copy. 18 Q What if anything did Mr. Van Arman do with 19 your summary? 20 A I am not certain what he did with the 21 notations that I made. 22 Q What action did he take, if any? 23 A He accepted the document with the revisions 24 that I had indicated. 25 Q And are you aware of whether then those 70 1 revisions were incorporated into rewriting the first 2 draft of the SWIM Plan? 3 A I didn't follow up to see what was and was 4 not or how that was dealt with. 5 Q So you were never gotten back to, 6 Mr. Van Arman never came back to you and gave you 7 another assignment? 8 A That is right. 9 Q How long did it take you to do the compiling 10 of the comments? 11 A I don't recall. I think there was a very 12 quick turn around time, so I don't think I had more 13 than a week to note all the comments that were made. 14 Q Now, you said you were compiling comments. 15 That seems to me to indicate that you were getting them 16 from somewhere else? 17 A Right. 18 Q Who were you getting comments from? 19 A They were from the other people who were 20 assigned to review the document. 21 Q Who would that be? 22 A Well, the individuals that I named earlier 23 were part of that review process. 24 Q And is it accurate to say that you got their 25 comments and then incorporated them on a single 71 1 document that you gave to Mr. Van Arman? 2 A That is not totally accurate. The entire 3 text of the draft plan was distributed to the 4 reviewers. The portion that I received back had to do 5 with comments that were made to a particular section. 6 So I saw only those comments that were made dealing 7 with that particular section. 8 Q And you said that that section was the 9 overall description of water quality and environmental 10 issues? 11 A Yes. 12 Q What was the substance of the comments that 13 you got back? 14 A They varied in their scope and in their 15 topic. Some items were to correct inaccuracies, some 16 were questions and indications to check further on 17 certain statements that were made. Other comments were 18 suggested alternative language in certain portions that 19 I noted those substitutions, proposed substitutions. 20 Q Did you go back to any of these reviewers 21 while you were compiling all their different comments 22 and talk to them about their comments? 23 A No. 24 Q How was the form of the comments that came to 25 you; were they in documents, memo form? 72 1 A They were written in the margins, for the 2 most part, of the draft plan that was distributed. 3 Q So you would get a whole array of different 4 drafts back with comments on the margins? 5 A Correct. 6 Q Do you keep these drafts? What happened to 7 those drafts? 8 A I have kept those, yes, and they were 9 provided in my files. 10 Q What was the substance of questions to check 11 further on certain statements? 12 A The only thing I can remember specifically 13 had to do with the rate of soil subsidence and the EAA. 14 That was one that someone had earmarked to check 15 further about that statement. I can't remember 16 anything else specifically. 17 Q Was it your position to check further or just 18 to summarize and give it to someone else who would then 19 have another person check it out? 20 A It was my job to summarize the comments that 21 were made and compile them all, lay them out so they 22 could all be seen as they related to that section of 23 the document. It was someone elses job to follow up 24 and make the revisions. 25 Q Did you have any input at all into the 73 1 revisions themselves then, the content? 2 A Not after I provided that compilation. 3 Q Your compilation, though, did not change the 4 substance of any of the comments, right? 5 A That was my intention, yes. 6 Q And to the best of your knowledge, your 7 compilation accurately represents what each of the 8 different reviewer's comments was? 9 A I believe so, yes. 10 Q When you did summaries for the advisory 11 committee, and I apologize if I asked you this before, 12 to the best of your knowledge, were those accurate 13 representations of what actually went on at these 14 meetings? 15 A Well, the accuracy of those meeting summaries 16 was determined by LOTAC when they approved the meeting 17 minutes. That was their determination. 18 Q So when you did the summaries for LOTAC, 19 those minutes that you prepared were reviewed by the 20 committee itself? 21 A Right. 22 Q What about for the Everglades Advisory 23 Committee, were those summaries that you prepared ever 24 reviewd by the committee? 25 A I did not prepare meeting summaries for the 74 1 committee. I prepared meeting summaries of committee 2 discussions for use by District staff. 3 Q To the best of your knowledge, the summaries 4 that you prepared for the Everglades Advisory 5 Committee, though, represented what you understood went 6 on in these meetings? 7 A Yes. 8 Q So to the best of your knowledge, they are 9 accurate representations? 10 A Yes. 11 Q When you would provide the summaries for the 12 Everglades Advisory Committee, do you remember any 13 discussions concerning the regulation of agricultural 14 discharge? 15 A No, I don't. 16 Q Do you recall any discussion of the effect of 17 phosphorus in water conservation areas? 18 A Discussion in the summaries? 19 Q Well, the summaries you prepared, we just 20 went over, reflected an accurate representation of what 21 went on at meeting. Was there discussion at the 22 meeting, as reflected in the your summaries, concerning 23 phosphorus in water conservation areas? 24 A There was discussion at the LOTAC meetings 25 and that discussion would have been represented in the 75 1 meeting summaries that I prepared. 2 Q What about at the Everglades Advisory 3 Committee meetings? 4 A There was discussion of that issue. 5 Q Do you remember what dates? 6 A No, I don't. 7 Q Is there any type of document that could help 8 you remember? 9 A There would be notes in my files about the 10 issues that were brought up at those meetings. 11 Q Do you keep those notes by subject matter or 12 by date? 13 A Meeting date. 14 Q If I wanted to request those documents, how 15 would you suggest that I label them or identify them? 16 A Well, those documents have been provided and 17 they are my files, and they are labeled Everglades 18 Advisory Group and there will be a meeting date as part 19 of the label on the file. 20 Q You say those documents were provided. To 21 the best of your knowledge, though, from what I 22 understand, before you said those documents were 23 removed for inspection? 24 A They were removed, right. 25 Q At the LOTAC meetings was there discussion of 76 1 the invasion or existence of cattails in the water 2 conservation areas? 3 A There was discussion. 4 Q On what dates were those? 5 A I don't recall the specific dates. 6 Q What document or type of do