STATE OF FLORIDA
DIVISION OF ADMINISTRATIVE HEARINGS
SUGAR CANE GROWERS COOPERATIVE OF )
FLORIDA, a Florida Agricultural )
Cooperative Marketing Association,) CASE NOS. 92-3038
ROTH FARMS, INC., and ) 92-3039
WEDGWORTH FARMS, INC., ) 92-3040
)
and )
)
FLORIDA SUGAR CANE LEAGUE, INC.; )
UNITED STATES SUGAR CORPORATION; )
and NEW HOPE SOUTH, INC., )
)
and )
FLORIDA FRUIT AND VEGETABLE ) DEPOSITION
ASSOCIATION, LEWIS POPE FARMS, )
W.E. SCHLECHTER & SONS, INC., and ) OF
HUNDLEY FARMS, INC., )
) CHRISTOPHER B. CRAFT
Petitioners, )
)
vs. )
)
SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT )
DISTRICT, an Agency of the State )
of Florida, )
)
Respondent, )
)
and )
)
MICCOSUKEE TRIBE OF INDIANS OF )
FLORIDA, the UNITED STATES OF )
AMERICA, and FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF )
ENVIRONMENTAL REGULATION, and the )
FLORIDA WILDLIFE FEDERATION, )
)
Intervenors. )
___________________________________)
AT DURHAM, NORTH CAROLINA
DECEMBER 7, 1992 - 9:00 A.M.
REPORTED BY: PAMELA S. LILES
CAROLYN Y. HALL & ASSOCIATES
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 107
APPEARANCES:
FOR THE PETITIONERS:
MR. RICK BURGESS MR. WILLIAM H. GREEN
PEEPLES, EARL & BLANK HOPPING, BOYD, GREEN & SAMS
ONE BISCAYNE TOWER 123 SOUTH CALHOUN STREET
SUITE 3636 TALLAHASSEE, FLORIDA 32314
MAIMI, FLORIDA 33131
TELEPHONE: (305) 358-3000 TELEPHONE: (904) 222-7500
FOR THE RESPONDENT-INTERVENOR:
MS. SUZAN HILL PONZOLI MR. PAUL L. NETTLETON
ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY POPHAM, HAIK, SCHNOBRICH &
SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA KAUFMAN, LTD.
155 SOUTH MIAMI AVENUE 4100 ONE CENTRUST FINANCIAL
SUITE 627 CENTER
MIAMI, FLORIDA 33130 100 SE SECOND STREET
MIAMI, FLORIDA 33131
TELEPHONE: (305) 536-4425 TELEPHONE: (305) 530-0050
FOR DUKE UNIVERSITY:
MR. RALPH L. McCAUGHAN
KING, WALKER, LAMBE & CRABTREE
SUITE 100, 3708 MAYFAIR STREET
POST OFFICE BOX 51549
DURHAM, NORTH CAROLINA 27717-1549
TELEPHONE: (919) 493-8411
ALSO PRESENT:
DR. CURTIS J. RICHARDSON
DUKE UNIVERSITY
MR. RONALD D. JONES, Ph.D.
FLORIDA INTERNATIONAL UNIVERSITY
MR. JIM GRIMSHAW, Ph.D.
SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT
MR. MARK D. MAFFEI, Ph.D.
U.S. FISH AND WILDLIFE SERVICE
MR. SAM ELSWICK
ASPEN SYSTEMS CORPORATION
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 108
T A B L E O F C O N T E N T S
E X A M I N A T I O N I N D E X
DEPONENT - CHRISTOPHER B. CRAFT - 12/7-8/92
EXAMINATION BY: PAGES
MS. PONZOLI 109-454
MR. NETTLETON 454-550
MR. BURGESS 550-554
MR. NETTLETON 554-555
MR. BURGESS 555-556
-------------------------------------------------------
E X H I B I T S I N D E X
NUMBER DESCRIPTION MARKED
(NO EXHIBITS WERE MARKED DURING
THE TAKING OF THE DEPOSITION OF
DR. CRAFT ON DECEMBER 7-8, 1992.)
-------------------------------------------------------
SIGNATURE PAGE FOR DEPONENT 557
CERTIFICATION OF COURT REPORTER 558
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 109
ON MOTION OF COUNSEL FOR THE
RESPONDENT-INTERVENOR, THE DEPOSITION OF DR.
CHRISTOPHER B. CRAFT MAY BE TAKEN BEGINNING AT OR
AROUND 9:00 A.M. ON DECEMBER 7, 1992, AT THE HILTON
HOTEL, HILLSBOROUGH ROAD, THE WALKER SUITE, DURHAM,
NORTH CAROLINA, BEFORE PAMELA S. LILES, A NOTARY
PUBLIC.
THE SIGNATURE OF THE WITNESS TO THE TRANSCRIPT OF
HIS TESTIMONY IS HEREBY REQUIRED.
- - - - - - - - - - -
WHEREUPON,
CHRISTOPHER B. CRAFT,
HAVING BEEN FIRST DULY SWORN,
WAS EXAMINED AND TESTIFIED
AS FOLLOWS:
EXAMINATION BY MS. PONZOLI:
Q. SIR, WOULD YOU STATE YOUR NAME FOR THE RECORD,
PLEASE?
A. CHRISTOPHER B. CRAFT.
Q. ALL RIGHT. DR. CRAFT, WE ACTUALLY BEGAN YOUR
DEPOSITION SOME WEEKS AGO WHERE WE RECEIVED YOUR
DOCUMENTS, AND THEN WE SAID THAT WE WOULD BE
RETURNING TODAY TO ASK YOU SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT
SOME OR ALL OF THOSE DOCUMENTS.
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 110
A. (NODS AFFIRMATIVELY.)
Q. I WOULD LIKE TO REMIND YOU OF SOME OF THE
INSTRUCTIONS WE GAVE YOU LAST TIME, THAT IF YOU
DON'T UNDERSTAND A QUESTION THAT I ASK -- AND
I'LL REMIND YOU THAT I AM NOT A SCIENTIST, I AM
A LAWYER -- THEN, PLEASE LET ME KNOW AND I WILL
TRY TO FASHION A BETTER AND MORE APPROPRIATE
QUESTION FOR YOU. OBVIOUSLY, WE ARE DEALING WITH
THIS MATERIAL ON DIFFERENT LEVELS SO WE HAVE TO DO
THE BEST WE CAN BETWEEN US.
I WOULD LIKE TO BEGIN TODAY, DR. CRAFT,
QUESTIONING YOU ON DEPOSITION EXHIBIT NUMBER
FIVE -- CRAFT NUMBER FIVE, WHICH IS A COMPOSITE
EXHIBIT MAINLY INVOLVING A MANUSCRIPT ENTITLED,
"PEAT ACCRETION AND NITROGEN, PHOSPHORUS AND
ORGANIC CARBON ACCUMULATED IN NUTRIENT ENRICHED
AND UNENRICHED EVERGLADES PEATLANDS," AUTHORED BY
CRAFT AND RICHARDSON FROM THE DUKE UNIVERSITY
WETLAND CENTER. AND I THINK I'VE GIVEN YOU A COPY
OF YOUR EXHIBIT NUMBER FIVE.
MS. PONZOLI: AND THERE ARE A FEW
EXTRA COPIES THERE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE
TABLE, I BELIEVE.
Q. (BY MS. PONZOLI) IF I UNDERSTAND THE COMPOSITE
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 111
EXHIBIT, THIS PUBLICATION HAS BEEN ACCEPTED IN
ECOLOGICAL APPLICATIONS, IS THAT ACCURATE?
A. THAT'S CORRECT.
Q. AND IT WILL BE COMING OUT IN PRINT, WHEN?
A. SOMETIME IN 1993.
Q. OKAY. I GUESS WE CAN BEGIN FIRST, DR. CRAFT, WITH
THE LETTER THAT YOU FORWARDED TO DR. GORHAM
REGARDING THE PUBLICATION. I JUST HAVE A COUPLE
OF QUESTIONS ON THAT LETTER.
A. OKAY.
Q. YOU INDICATE THAT YOU HAVE ADDRESSED REVIEWER
COMMENTS IN SEVERAL FASHIONS. AND, AS I RECALL,
YOU HAD DISCARDED THOSE REVIEWER COMMENTS PRIOR
TO OUR REQUESTING YOUR DOCUMENTS. IS THAT
CORRECT?
A. RIGHT.
Q. OKAY. WHAT WERE THE SUBSTANCE OF THE REVIEWER
COMMENTS?
A. BASICALLY -- ARE WE TALKING ABOUT THIS LETTER
DATED SEPTEMBER 9TH, HERE?
Q. NO. I'M REALLY TALKING MORE GLOBALLY AS TO ALL
REVIEWER COMMENTS THAT YOU RECEIVED AT THAT TIME.
HOW MANY ITERATIONS DID YOU GO THROUGH -- LET ME
ASK YOU -- STRIKE THAT QUESTION, AND LET ME ASK
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 112
YOU A SECOND QUESTION. HOW MANY ITERATIONS OF
THIS MANUSCRIPT DID YOU GO THROUGH BEFORE IT WAS
ACCEPTED?
A. OKAY. YOU MEAN BY "ITERATIONS" WITH THE JOURNAL
REVIEWERS, OR DO YOU MEAN---
Q. YES, SIR. WITH THE JOURNAL REVIEWER.
A. I THINK IT WAS TWO, MAYBE THREE.
Q. ALL RIGHT. IN YOUR FIRST ROUND OF COMMENTS, DO
YOU REMEMBER WHAT THOSE WERE?
A. SOME OF THEM. THE CESIUM DATA WAS NOT PRESENTED
IN A GRAPHICAL FORMAT, AND SO WE WENT BACK AND
PRESENTED SOME OF IT AS GRAPHS.
Q. UH-HUH (YES).
A. WE DIDN'T INCLUDE ANY DATA ON ORGANIC CARBON
ACCUMULATION, AND SO WE ADDED THAT TO IT. THOSE
ARE ABOUT THE TWO MAIN THINGS. I REALLY CAN'T
THINK OF ANYTHING ELSE. THOSE WERE THE TWO BIG
THINGS.
Q. DID YOU HAVE THREE REVIEWERS?
A. I THINK SO.
Q. IS THAT CUSTOMARY THAT THERE WOULD BE THREE?
A. SOMETIMES IT'S TWO, SOMETIMES IT'S THREE,
OCCASIONALLY IT'S FOUR.
Q. OKAY. DO YOU KNOW WHO ANY OF YOUR REVIEWERS
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 113
WERE?
A. NO. THEY MAKE THAT ANONYMOUS USUALLY. THAT'S
SORT OF STANDARD PRACTICE.
Q. OKAY. SO, YOU ADDED THE CESIUM DATA GRAPHICALLY
AND THE ORGANIC CARBON, AND THEN YOU WENT THROUGH
ANOTHER ITERATION. DO YOU RECALL WHY YOU WENT
THROUGH THE SECOND ITERATION?
A. JUST TO, YOU KNOW, IMPROVE THE QUALITY OF THE
MANUSCRIPT. AND, BASICALLY, THAT'S I THINK WHAT
THIS SEPTEMBER 9TH LETTER ADDRESSES: SHORTENING
THE TITLE; MAKING IT MORE INFORMATIVE; REDUCING
THE LENGTH OF THE ABSTRACT; TRYING TO RELATE TO
CESIUM INVENTORIES IN THE SOIL TO WHAT THE
DEPOSITION RATE FROM THE ATMOSPHERE IS.
Q. ALL RIGHT. THERE'S A QUESTION IN NUMBER FOUR
REGARDING THE ORIGINALITY OF THE RESEARCH. WHAT
WAS THAT ISSUE?
A. BASICALLY, I CITED SOME OF THE WORK OF DR. REDDY
IN THE MANUSCRIPT AND THEIR CONCERN WAS THAT,
WELL, IF THIS WORK HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE, WHY
SHOULD WE PUBLISH IT. AND I THINK I ADDRESSED
THAT IN THE LETTER AS OUR WORK STARTED EARLIER
THAN HIS -- ALTHOUGH I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH THAT
MATTERS; I THINK IT DEPENDS ON WHO GET IT OUT
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 114
FIRST -- AND THE SCOPE OF OUR WORK IN TERMS OF
THE GEOGRAPHICAL AREA COVERED WAS MUCH LARGER THAN
WHAT DR. REDDY COVERED.
Q. OKAY. YOU SEEM TO EXPRESS SOME CONCERN BETWEEN
THE LAG OF SUBMISSION AND PUBLICATION. DO YOU
RECALL WHAT THAT LAG WAS?
A. IN TERMS OF THE TIME INTERVAL?
Q. SURE.
A. I DON'T KNOW. IT SEEMS LIKE FOUR OR FIVE MONTHS.
I MEAN, IT -- GENERALLY, I THINK IT MAY HAVE EVEN
BEEN FIVE OR SIX MONTHS. THEY GENERALLY TRY TO
TURN IT AROUND TO YOU IN A THREE OR FOUR MONTH
PERIOD.
Q. OKAY. YOU SAY IN YOUR POSTSCRIPT "THAT NET
PRIMARY PRODUCTION OF EVERGLADES MACROPHYTES
PROBABLY IS SUBSTANTIALLY HIGHER THAN VEGETATION
OF NORTHERN PEATLANDS."
MR. BURGESS: I'M SORRY, IS THERE A
PAGE NUMBER?
MS. PONZOLI: IT'S THE POSTSCRIPT.
IT'S THE SECOND PAGE OF THE LETTER, I
ASSUME. I MEAN, I HAVE A---
MR. BURGESS: OKAY.
MS. PONZOLI: ---PAGE THAT SAYS P.S.
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 115
IS THAT ACCURATE?
WITNESS: YES.
MR. BURGESS: (NODS AFFIRMATIVELY.)
Q. (BY MS. PONZOLI) DO YOU RECALL -- WAS THIS
POSTSCRIPT ATTACHED TO THE LETTER?
A. OH, YES.
Q. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THE "NET PRIMARY" -- WHY IS
THIS SO, DR. CRAFT?
A. WELL, YOU JUST -- YOU HAVE A LONGER GROWING SEASON
IN SUBTROPICAL AREAS, SO YOU TEND TO HAVE HIGHER
PRODUCTIVITY. AND A LOT OF ECOSYSTEMS IS SHOWN TO
HAVE A LATITUDINAL COMPONENT. IT'S HIGHER AS YOU
MOVE TOWARDS THE TROPICS.
Q. ALL RIGHT. DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THE NET PRIMARY
PRODUCTIVITY IN THE EVERGLADES IS THE SAME
THROUGHOUT THE EVERGLADES?
A. NO. IT WOULD DEPEND ON THE COMMUNITY -- YOU KNOW,
ON THE TYPE OF PLANT COMMUNITY.
Q. CAN YOU JUST GENERALLY TELL ME WHERE YOU THINK IT
WOULD BE HIGHER?
A. WELL, I WOULD THINK THAT PROBABLY THE EMERGENT
MARSHES HAVE A HIGHER PRODUCTIVITY THAN TREE
ISLANDS, AND CERTAIN EMERGENT PLANTS SPECIES ARE
MORE PRODUCTIVE THAN OTHERS.
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 116
Q. CATTAILS BEING MORE PRODUCTIVE THAN SAWGRASS?
A. THE DATA SUGGESTS THAT. NOT MY DATA, BUT, YOU
KNOW, WHAT THE LITERATURE SEEMS TO SUGGEST.
Q. DO YOU THINK THAT'S ACCURATE?
A. I REALLY DON'T KNOW BECAUSE I HAVEN'T, YOU KNOW,
MEASURED IT, AT LEAST IN THAT CONTEXT.
Q. DO YOU THINK IT'S AN IMPORTANT POINT TO
UNDERSTAND?
A. I THINK IT WOULD BE IMPORTANT TO KNOW WHETHER
THERE IS A DIFFERENCE IN PRODUCTIVITY BETWEEN THE
TWO SPECIES, YEAH.
Q. OKAY. ARE YOU DESIGNING ANY STUDIES, OR ARE ANY
OF YOUR STUDIES ADDRESSING THAT ISSUE?
A. NOT DIRECTLY.
Q. HOW ARE THEY ADDRESSING IT INDIRECTLY?
A. THE FERTILIZER STUDY IS ADDRESSING THE EFFECTS
OF N AND P ADDITIONS ON GROWTH OF EVERGLADES
VEGETATION, AND ALTHOUGH IN SOME WAYS THE MAIN
FOCUS WAS TO TRY TO DETERMINE IF FERTILIZER
ADDITIONS CAUSED THE CHANGE IN THE SPECIES
COMPOSITION.
Q. SO, IT WASN'T REALLY LOOKING AT NET PRIMARY
PRODUCTIVITY REALLY?
A. NO -- WELL, INDIRECTLY, IT IS LOOKING AT THAT
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 117
BECAUSE WE ARE INTERESTED IN THE FERTILIZER
RESPONSE -- THE RESPONSE TO FERTILIZER ADDITIONS,
AND ONE OF THOSE MIGHT BE A CHANGE IN
PRODUCTIVITY.
Q. OKAY. YOU SORT OF IMPLIED THAT YOU MIGHT QUESTION
THE LITERATURE ON WHETHER CATTAIL HAD A HIGHER NET
PRIMARY PRODUCTIVITY THAN SAWGRASS. IS THERE A
REASON?
A. NO, I'M NOT QUESTIONING IT---
Q. OKAY.
A. ---I JUST DON'T FEEL LIKE I KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT IT
IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, SINCE I HAVE NOT DONE ANY
WORK DIRECTLY RELATED TO THAT.
Q. BUT YOU DO THROUGHOUT YOUR PAPER ACCEPT THE WORK
OF OTHERS, AND APPEAR AT LEAST -- AND I BELIEVE
IT'S PROBABLY ACCURATE -- THAT YOU CONCUR WITH A
LOT OF THAT. DO YOU HAVE REASON TO DOUBT THE NET
PRIMARY PRODUCTIVITY OF CATTAIL IS GREATER?
A. NO, NO, I DON'T HAVE ANY.
Q. OKAY. OKAY.
A. AND, IF I RECALL, I THINK STEVE DAVIS DID FIND
CATTAIL WAS MORE PRODUCTIVE THAN SAWGRASS IN THOSE
ENRICHED AREAS.
Q. OKAY. I THINK I'M JUST GOING TO BEGIN WITH THE
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 118
ABSTRACT, DR. CRAFT, AND WORK MY WAY THROUGH IT,
BECAUSE YOU HAVE A LOT OF CONCEPTS HERE I WOULD
LIKE TO UNDERSTAND BETTER. YOU SAY THAT THESE
VARIOUS PARAMETERS WERE MEASURED IN EVERGLADE
SOILS TO CHARACTERIZE THE EFFECTS OF ALTERED
HYDROPERIOD AND NUTRIENT REGIMES ON THE NUTRIENT
STORAGE CAPACITY OF THE EVERGLADES ECOSYSTEM.
AND I THINK A NUMBER OF EITHER THE CHAPTERS OF THE
ANNUAL REPORTS OF THE DUKE WETLAND CENTER, OR THIS
PAPER, AND EVEN I THINK YOUR CRAFT EXHIBIT NUMBER
SIXTEEN, WHICH IS A DRAFT MANUSCRIPT THAT I
UNDERSTAND IT HAS NOT BEEN SUBMITTED FOR
PUBLICATION YET, AND LOOKS AT A EUTROPHICATION
GRADIENT IN THE NORTHERN EVERGLADES, ARE LOOKING
AT THE CONCEPT OF NUTRIENT STORAGE CAPACITY.
AND I GUESS MY QUESTION TO YOU IS WHY? WHY ARE
YOU LOOKING AT THIS NUTRIENT STORAGE CAPACITY?
A. WELL, THERE ARE SEVERAL REASONS. ONE IS,
WETLANDS, FIRST, ARE GENERALLY SINKS FOR
NUTRIENTS. AND THAT'S BECAUSE THEY TEND TO OCCUPY
THE LOWEST PART OF THE LANDSCAPE. THEY'RE IN THE
DEPTH -- THEY'RE IN THE AREAS THAT TEND TO RECEIVE
STUFF. ONE THING THAT WE ARE INTERESTED IN IS
CARBON ACCUMULATION. WETLANDS ARE POTENTIALLY
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 119
IMPORTANT SINKS IN THE GLOBAL CARBON CYCLE, AND
PERHAPS YOU MAY SEE CHANGES IN CARBON STORAGE IN
RESPONSE TO NUTRIENT AND HYDROPERIOD ALTERATIONS
WHICH COULD HAVE A BIG IMPACT ON GLOBAL WARMING
AND THAT SORT OF THING.
THE OTHER POTENTIAL THING, WHICH IS PROBABLY
MORE OBVIOUS, IS THIS PROBLEM OF PHOSPHORUS AND
WHAT TO DO ABOUT IT IN THE EVERGLADES.
Q. OKAY. IS -- I -- AND, NOW, I'M NOT TRYING TO BE
STUPID HERE, BUT I THINK I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH
THIS -- WITH UNDERSTANDING WHY THE FOCUS IS ON
STORAGE CAPACITY.
A. BECAUSE -- OKAY. NUTRIENT STORAGE IS AN IMPORTANT
ECOSYSTEM PROCESS. AND ANY KIND OF CHANGE IN
NUTRIENT ACCUMULATION RATES COULD POTENTIALLY
CHANGE THE ECOSYSTEM. SO, I MEAN, THIS IS JUST
SORT OF A BASIC PROCESS THAT IS SUBJECT TO BEING
CHANGED FROM ALTERATION BY HUMANS, AND IT'S
IMPORTANT TO DETERMINE IF THIS IS A -- YOU KNOW,
HOW IT CHANGES -- IF IT DOES CHANGE -- AND IF SO,
HOW.
Q. OKAY. WHAT IS THE PROBLEM WITH PHOSPHORUS IN THE
EVERGLADES?
A. IT SEEMS TO BE -- IT HAS BEEN SUGGESTED BY A LOT
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 120
OF PEOPLE THAT PHOSPHORUS IS RESPONSIBLE FOR
CHANGES IN EVERYTHING FROM THE PLANT COMMUNITIES,
TO THE PERIPHYTON COMMUNITY, TO -- I MEAN,
EVERYTHING FROM PRODUCTIVITY TO CHANGES IN SPECIES
COMPOSITION; POTENTIAL CHANGES IN THE FOOD WEB;
AND WHAT WE WERE INTERESTED IN HERE IS LOOKING AT
HOW ENRICHMENT AFFECTS -- WHEN YOU START TALKING
ABOUT CHANGES IN COMMUNITIES AND TROPHIC GROUPS,
THAT'S SORT OF AT THE COMMUNITY LEVEL, AT THE
ORGANISM LEVEL. WE WERE INTERESTED IN SOME OF
THESE HIGHER ORDER PROCESSES, THESE ECOSYSTEM
PROCESSES, LIKE HOW PEAT BUILDS UP AND HOW
NUTRIENTS ARE SEQUESTERED.
Q. DO YOU -- DOES YOUR RESEARCH IN THE EVERGLADES
SUPPORT THE CONCEPT THAT COMMUNITIES HAVE BEEN
ALTERED BY THE NUTRIENT ENRICHMENT?
A. I THINK THAT THE FERTILIZER STUDY, THE FIRST YEAR
DATA DOES SUGGEST THAT THERE ARE SOME CHANGES THAT
OCCUR IN RESPONSE TO FERTILIZER ADDITIONS.
Q. DO YOU FIND THEM IN THE PERIPHYTON?
A. WELL, DR. VYMAZAL DID THAT WORK, AND I THINK HE
DID NOTE SOME CHANGES, BUT I DON'T FEEL LIKE I
KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT THAT TO REALLY -- I'M NOT A
PERIPHYTON PERSON, SO I DON'T REALLY FEEL LIKE I'M
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 121
QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT THOSE CHANGES.
Q. YOU ARE TAKING OVER THE PERIPHYTON WORK AT THE
DOSING STUDY, ARE YOU NOT?
A. NO.
Q. THAT'S DR. RADER, I'M SORRY. EXCUSE ME---
A. RIGHT.
Q. ---IT'S DR. RADER WHO'S DOING THAT.
A. YEAH.
Q. OKAY. WHAT ABOUT CHANGES IN THE COMMUNITIES OF
MACROPHYTES?
A. I FEEL LIKE I KNOW A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THAT.
THAT'S WHAT I'M LOOKING AT.
Q. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. HAVE YOU FOUND CHANGES IN THE
MACROPHYTE COMMUNITIES AS A RESULT OF NUTRIENT
ENRICHMENT?
A. SOME CHANGES, YES.
Q. WHAT ARE THEY?
A. WE SEE AN INCREASE IN PHOSPHORUS UPTAKE BY MOST OF
THE MACROPHYTES THAT WE LOOKED AT.
Q. AND?
A. AND WE SAW A DECREASE IN -- A DECLINE IN THE
STANDING CROP BIOMASS OF THIS UTRICULARIA-
PERIPHYTON COMPLEX.
Q. AND?
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 122
A. THOSE WERE THE TWO THINGS THAT WE HAVE SEEN THUS
FAR.
Q. AND YOU COULD MAKE NO OTHER CONCLUSIONS REGARDING
THE COMMUNITY CHANGES RELATED TO, LET'S SAY, THE
CATTAIL OR THE DENSE MACROPHYTE ENCROACHMENT?
A. AFTER ONE YEAR, WE DIDN'T SEE THAT YET, YOU KNOW,
WE DIDN'T SEE IT, SO.
Q. ALL RIGHT. NOW, YOU HAVE BEEN DOING RESEARCH IN
THE EVERGLADES FOR THREE YEARS?
A. THREE AND A HALF.
Q. THREE AND A HALF YEARS?
A. YES.
Q. SO, BASED ON THREE AND A HALF YEARS WORK IN THE
EVERGLADES, DO YOU BELIEVE THAT YOU COULD MAKE
SOME OF THOSE CONCLUSIONS REGARDING CHANGES IN THE
MACROPHYTE COMMUNITIES?
A. WELL, WITH REFERENCE TO THE TWO THINGS I JUST
MENTIONED, I THINK, YEAH, THE DATA SUGGESTS THAT
THERE IS AN INCREASE IN PHOSPHORUS UPTAKE BY
MACROPHYTES, AND THERE IS A DECREASE IN THIS
STANDING CROP BIOMASS OF THE
UTRICULARIA-PERIPHYTON.
Q. AND AFTER THREE AND A HALF YEARS OF RESEARCH IN
THE EVERGLADES, THAT'S THE SUM TOTAL OF THE
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 123
MACROPHYTE CHANGES THAT YOU---
A. AT THIS POINT---
Q. OKAY.
A. ---BECAUSE THERE IS A TIME LAG FROM WHEN YOU
COLLECT THE DATA TO WHEN YOU FINALLY GET IT
ANALYZED AND START LOOKING AT IT STATISTICALLY.
Q. HAVE YOU COLLECTED DATA FROM WHICH YOU COULD
POTENTIALLY DRAW---
A. YES---
Q. ---CONCLUSIONS?
A. ---WELL, NO. I HAVE COLLECTED DATA, BUT I
DON'T -- I'M NOT ABLE TO DRAW CONCLUSIONS YET
BECAUSE WE ARE STILL IN THE PROCESS OF TRYING TO
ANALYZE THE DATA, LOOK AT THE NUMBERS.
Q. WHEN DO YOU THINK YOU WILL HAVE THAT ANALYSIS
DONE?
A. IT WILL BE IN -- TWO YEARS OF FERTILIZER DATA WILL
BE IN NEXT YEAR'S ANNUAL REPORT.
Q. SO, BY THE END OF THIS SUMMER, NEXT FALL, YOU
WOULD HAVE TWO YEARS---
A. UH-HUH. I WOULD HAVE TWO YEARS INTERPRETED AND
WRITTEN UP.
Q. WHEN WOULD YOU HAVE IT INTERPRETED, BUT NOT
WRITTEN UP?
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 124
A. PROBABLY ABOUT IN MAY OR JUNE.
Q. OKAY.
A. YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THIS IS KIND OF AN
ITERATIVE ONGOING THING. YOU CAN GO OUT IN ONE
WEEK AND COLLECT ENOUGH DATA TO SPEND A YEAR IN
THE LAB TRYING TO ANALYZE.
Q. OKAY. DO YOU THINK YOU HAVE THAT MUCH DATA
COLLECTED?
A. I WENT OUT IN A WEEK THIS SUMMER AND I'VE GOT
ABOUT A YEAR'S WORTH OF DATA TO TRY TO PUT
TOGETHER.
Q. OKAY. AND ARE YOU TRYING TO PUT THEM TOGETHER TO
DO THAT TYPE OF ANALYSIS OF MACROPHYTE COMMUNITY
CHANGES?
A. SURE.
Q. OKAY. HOW WOULD YOU CHARACTERIZE THE ECOLOGICAL
EFFECTS OF THE CHANGES THAT YOU HAVE SEEN?
A. MAYBE YOU COULD REPHRASE THE QUESTION; I DON'T
QUITE UNDERSTAND IT.
Q. WELL, HAVE YOU SEEN ECOLOGICAL CHANGES DUE TO
NUTRIENT ENRICHMENT?
A. IN THESE FERTILIZER PLOTS, YES.
Q. ONLY IN THE FERTILIZER PLOTS?
A. WELL, I'M NOT SURE IN THE FIELD IF YOU CAN
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 125
RELATE -- YOU HAVE TO START AT TIME ZERO AND LOOK
AND SEE HOW THINGS CHANGE. I CAN GO OUT THERE
TODAY AND SAY, YEAH, THERE'S CATTAIL EVERYWHERE.
BUT SINCE I WASN'T THERE TEN YEARS AGO, I DON'T
KNOW -- YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT HOW THINGS
CHANGE OVER TIME AND THAT'S WHY I THINK THE
FERTILIZER STUDY WILL BE USEFUL SINCE WE STARTED
AT TIME ZERO AND CAN FOLLOW THIS OVER A TWO,
THREE, FOUR, OR FIVE YEAR PERIOD.
Q. HAVE YOU MADE ANY EFFORT TO RELATE PHOSPHORUS
ENRICHMENT TO THE CATTAIL AREA?
A. MAYBE REPHRASE THE QUESTION.
Q. WELL, YOU'VE DONE STUDIES ALONG A NUTRIENT
GRADIENT, IS THAT RIGHT---
A. RIGHT.
Q. ---IN 2B?
A. RIGHT.
Q. ALL RIGHT. AND YOU HAVE TAKEN PHOSPHORUS LEVELS
ALONG THAT NUTRIENT GRADIENT. IS THAT RIGHT?
A. CORRECT.
Q. OKAY. HAVE YOU DONE ANY RELATIONSHIP OF THE
PHOSPHORUS LEVELS YOU FOUND IN THE PORE WATER AND
THE SURFACE WATER WITH THE PLANT COMMUNITIES THAT
YOU SAW ALONG THE NUTRIENT GRADIENT?
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 126
A. NO. I DON'T THINK I'VE DONE ANYTHING LIKE
THAT.
Q. OKAY. WHY NOT?
A. I JUST DON'T -- I HAVEN'T REALLY LOOKED INTO THAT
SORT OF THING.
Q. DO YOU THINK THAT THAT WOULD BE A VALID FORM OF
ANALYSIS?
A. WELL, I'M NOT QUITE SURE I UNDERSTAND THE
QUESTION, SO MAYBE LET'S BACK UP AND---
Q. OKAY. WELL---
A. ---MAKE IT CLEARER TO ME.
Q. SURE. SURE. AND YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND I'M A
LAYMAN TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THIS FROM A LAYMAN'S
PERSPECTIVE. YOU HAVE ENRICHED AREAS THAT YOU
TALK ABOUT ALONG THE NUTRIENT AND GRADIENT MOVING
INTO WHAT YOU CALL UNENRICHED AREAS---
A. OKAY.
Q. ---IS THAT RIGHT?
A. YES.
Q. AND YOU HAVE TAKEN MEASUREMENTS ALL ALONG THAT
GRADIENT. IS THAT TRUE?
A. YES.
Q. AND HAVE YOU DONE VEGETATIVE COUNTS ALONG THAT
GRADIENT?
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 127
A. YES.
Q. HAVE YOU TRIED TO RELATE TO SEE IF THERE IS SOME
RELATIONSHIP THAT MAKES SENSE TO YOU IN WHAT
YOU'RE SEEING?
A. YOU MEAN IN TERMS OF, AS YOU WOULD SAY, TRY TO
RELATE PORE WATER CONCENTRATIONS TO WHAT'S GOING
ON WITH THE MACROPHYTES?
Q. THAT'S RIGHT.
A. WE HAVEN'T DONE THAT. AND MY WORK IS RELATED TO
THE MACROPHYTES. DR. QUALLS HAS DONE THE PORE
WATER WORK. AND AT THIS POINT WE JUST HAVEN'T
PUT TWO AND TWO TOGETHER TO TRY TO, YOU KNOW,
COMBINE THE DATA AND LOOK AT THOSE SORTS OF
THINGS.
Q. IS THERE ANY REASON WHY?
A. WE JUST HAVEN'T HAD THE TIME. WE'VE TALKED
ABOUT -- THERE HAS BEEN TALK OF TRYING TO SORT
OF SYNTHESIZE AND BRING EVERYTHING TOGETHER,
BUT YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND EACH OF US, WE WORK
SEMI-INDEPENDENTLY, IN TERMS OF EACH OF US TAKES
THE LEAD IN A CERTAIN FACET OF THE STUDY. AND,
SO, MY FOCUS IS ON MACROPHYTES AND ON PEAT
BUILDUP. DR. QUALLS HAS FOCUSED MORE ON THE WATER
QUALITY WORK, AND THE PORE WATERS, AND THOSE KIND
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 128
OF THINGS.
Q. SO, THE ONLY SYNTHESIZER, THEN, IS DR. RICHARDSON,
IS THAT ACCURATE?
A. WELL, I'D SAY HE CERTAINLY DOES MORE SYNTHESIZING
THAN WE DO, IN TERMS OF BRINGING ALL THE PIECES
TOGETHER, YES.
Q. ALL RIGHT. DO YOU EVER SIT AROUND, ALL OF YOU,
AND TALK ABOUT SYNTHESIZING YOUR VARIOUS STUDIES?
A. WE -- YEAH, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THAT. THERE IS THE
TIME CONSTRAINT PROBLEM THAT SEEMS TO BE THE
BIGGEST THING.
Q. AND HAVE YOU EVER HAD DISCUSSIONS REGARDING
SYNTHESIZING DR. QUALLS' WORK WITH YOUR WORK, WITH
DR. RADER'S WORK, WITH DR. VYMAZAL'S WORK?
A. YEAH, WE'VE JUST MENTIONED THAT WE NEED TO TRY TO
DO THAT.
Q. BUT YOU HAVEN'T DONE IT?
A. NO, NOT REALLY.
Q. OKAY. IS THIS CONCEPT OF NUTRIENT STORAGE
CAPACITY, IS THIS A MANAGEMENT CONCEPT?
A. IT HAS MANAGEMENT APPLICATIONS, YES.
Q. OKAY. HOW SO?
A. WELL, PEOPLE USE WETLANDS -- OR ARE USING THEM IN
A LOT OF PLACES, TO TRY AND IMPROVE WATER QUALITY.
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 129
AND INFORMATION LIKE THIS CAN BE USED, PERHAPS, TO
TRY TO DETERMINE HOW THESE SYSTEMS MIGHT WORK, TO
PROVIDE BACKGROUND INFORMATION TO DETERMINE, YOU
KNOW, HOW THESE SYSTEMS MIGHT WORK IN TERMS OF
PEAT BUILDUP, OR SOIL ADSORPTION, OR SOMETHING
LIKE THAT.
Q. WELL, IN LOOKING AT YOUR WORK IN THE WATER
CONSERVATION AREAS, AND IN THE EVERGLADES, ARE YOU
LOOKING AT MANAGING THESE AREAS TOWARD THE GOAL OF
IMPROVING WATER QUALITY FOR THE EVERGLADES
NATIONAL PARK, FOR EXAMPLE?
A. THAT WASN'T REALLY A GOAL IN THE PAPER, BUT IT
COULD BE POTENTIALLY USED FOR SOMETHING LIKE
THAT.
Q. WERE YOU LOOKING AT EXAMINING THESE WETLAND
SYSTEMS TOWARD IMPROVING WATER QUALITY FOR THE
SYSTEMS THEMSELVES?
A. FOR MAYBE THE CONSERVATION AREAS.
Q. YOU WERE LOOKING AT WHAT THE NUTRIENT STORAGE
CAPACITY WAS SO THAT YOU COULD IMPROVE THE WATER
QUALITY FOR THE WATER CONSERVATION AREA
THEMSELVES?
A. IT COULD BE USED FOR THAT.
Q. OKAY. HOW?
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 130
A. BY DETERMINING HOW THESE THINGS RESPOND TO
NUTRIENT ENRICHMENT. IF YOU DO SEE AN INCREASE IN
NUTRIENT ACCUMULATION, YOU MAY BE ABLE TO RELATE
THINGS LIKE LOADING TO STORAGE AND THAT SORT OF
THING.
Q. SO, IF YOU REDUCE LOADING TO "X" POINT, THEN THE
STORAGE WOULD MAINTAIN A CERTAIN EQUILIBRIUM, IS
THAT AN ACCURATE STATEMENT? NO?
A. I DON'T THINK SO, BUT I'M NOT QUITE SURE---
Q. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. HOW WOULD YOU -- HOW WOULD YOU
USE THE INFORMATION THAT YOU ARE GATHERING TO HELP
THE WATER CONSERVATION AREAS THEMSELVES IN WATER
QUALITY?
MR. BURGESS: THIS IS -- YOU'RE
ASKING A HYPOTHETICAL?
Q. (BY MS. PONZOLI) DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION,
DR. RADER?
A. DR. CRAFT.
Q. DR. CRAFT, I APOLOGIZE.
A. THAT'S OKAY.
WITNESS: REPEAT THE QUESTION ONE
MORE TIME.
MR. PONZOLI: OKAY. READ IT BACK
PLEASE.
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 131
(THEREUPON, THE QUESTIONS AND ANSWER
APPEARING ON PAGE 130, LINES 7-14,
WERE REPEATED BY THE COURT REPORTER.)
A. OKAY. I THINK YOU COULD USE IT -- WELL, I'M
AWARE, AS LONG -- AS MOST EVERYBODY ELSE IN SOUTH
FLORIDA, THAT THE SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT
DISTRICT IS THINKING ABOUT, OR TRYING TO DESIGN
THESE CONSTRUCTED WETLANDS TO FILTER PHOSPHORUS.
AND I THINK OUR WORK HAS DIRECT APPLICATIONS IN
HELPING DESIGN THOSE---
Q. OKAY. IS---
A. ---IN TERMS OF SUPPLYING INFORMATION ON THAT.
Q. FINE. THEN, IS THAT, IN FACT, THE GOAL OF A LOT
OF THIS WORK IS TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO DESIGN
CLEANUP AREAS FOR THE WATER?
A. NO, IT'S NOT -- IT'S NOT THE PRIMARY GOAL. THE
PRIMARY GOAL IS TO UNDERSTAND HOW, INITIALLY, THE
ECOSYSTEM PROCESSES, SUCH AS, PEAT ACCRETION AND
NUTRIENT ACCUMULATION ARE AFFECTED BY THE
ENRICHMENT PROCESS. AND THEN, OF COURSE, THIS
HAS A, YOU KNOW, AN APPLICATION TO DESIGNING THESE
TYPE OF AREAS.
Q. DO YOU THINK THAT WATER CONSERVATION AREA 2A CAN
BE USED AS A MODEL FOR HOW A MARSH CAN REMOVE AND
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 132
STORE PHOSPHORUS?
A. I THINK IF YOU'RE GOING TO CONSTRUCT A MARSH TO
REMOVE PHOSPHORUS BY PEAT ACCUMULATION, IT CAN BE
USED, IF PEAT ACCRETION IS THE PRIMARY MECHANISM
BY WHICH PHOSPHORUS IS STORED.
Q. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. BUT YOU'RE IMPLYING THAT THERE
ARE OTHER PARAMETERS THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE
CONSIDERED?
A. OH, CERTAINLY.
Q. OKAY. AND WHAT ARE THEY?
A. I THINK -- LET'S SAY YOU ARE NOT TRYING TO UTILIZE
PEAT ACCRETION AS YOUR MECHANISM; YOU KNOW,
THERE'S CHEMICAL PROCESSES, SUCH AS, SORPTION,
PRECIPITATION WITH IRON AND ALUMINUM AND CALCIUM
THAT YOU COULD USE OR COULD UNDERSTAND TO HELP IN
TERMS OF DESIGNING THESE AREAS. IT SORT OF
DEPENDS ON WHETHER YOU WANT TO GO WITH A PEAT
BASED WETLAND FOR PHOSPHORUS REMOVAL OR WHETHER
YOU WANT TO USE SOME KIND OF MINERAL SOIL WETLAND,
AND THEN YOU HAVE THESE OTHER PROCESSES WHICH
WOULD BE EVEN IMPORTANT IN DETERMINING HOW MUCH
PHOSPHORUS CAN BE REMOVED.
Q. DR. CRAFT, YOU JUST LOST ME. HOW WOULD WE BUILD
MINERAL SOIL WETLANDS IN FLORIDA?
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 133
A. WELL, YOU HAVE TO START WITH MINERAL SOIL. SO,
YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHAT---
Q. THAT'S WHERE I'M HAVING MY PROBLEM.
A. WELL, YOU KNOW, YOU GET UP INTO CENTRAL FLORIDA,
OR YOU GO RIGHT NORTH -- AT LEAST IF I LOOK AT
SOIL MAPS OF LAKE OKEECHOBEE, YOU GET INTO THESE
SANDY-TYPE SOILS, YOU KNOW, AND YOU COULD BUILD A
WETLAND THERE. I THINK -- YOU KNOW, THERE'S A
LOT -- NOT ALL WETLANDS ARE PEAT BASED, YOU KNOW.
MANY OF THE BIG ONES ARE, BUT---
Q. YOU'RE LOSING ME. WOULD WE SEND THE WATER NORTH,
CLEAN IT UP, AND THEN SOMEHOW BRING IT SOUTH BY
THE---
A. WELL, NO. ALL I'M SAYING IS, IS I DON'T KNOW
ENOUGH ABOUT THE DESIGN OF THESE THINGS TO
DETERMINE WHAT -- EXACTLY HOW THE PHOSPHORUS IS
GOING TO BE REMOVED. I DON'T KNOW IF THEY'RE
GOING TO RELY ON PEAT BUILDUP, OR WHETHER
THEY'RE GOING TO RELY ON PRECIPITATION WITH
CALCIUM AND IRON OR ALUMINUM. SO, I'M SORT OF
LIMITED BY -- THEY MAY RELY ON A COMBINATION OF
BOTH. I DON'T KNOW.
Q. YOU HAVE FOUND, AS I UNDERSTAND YOUR PAPER, THAT
THERE ARE CHANGES IN PEAT ACCRETION DUE TO
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 134
PHOSPHORUS ENRICHMENT, RIGHT?
A. I THINK SO, YES.
Q. OKAY. ALL RIGHT.
A. THE DATA SUGGESTS THAT.
Q. OKAY. AND THEN, JUST BASICALLY, WHAT ARE THESE
CHANGES?
A. ENRICHMENT SEEMS TO ENHANCE THE RATE OF PEAT
BUILDUP.
Q. SEPARATELY AND APART FROM HYDROPERIOD?
A. WELL, WE CAN'T -- I REALLY DON'T KNOW ABOUT THAT,
BECAUSE IT'S HARD TO SEPARATE THE TWO. THE
PROBLEM WITH CONSERVATION AREA 2A IS THERE'S A LOT
OF PHOSPHORUS COMING IN, AND THERE'S A LOT OF
NITROGEN, TOO, BUT THERE'S A HUGE AMOUNT OF WATER
THAT CARRIES ALL THAT IN. AND MY FEELING IS, IS
YOU'D REALLY NEED TO DO SOME KIND OF CONTROLLED
STUDIES WHERE YOU COULD SEPARATE THOSE TWO THINGS
OUT TO DETERMINE THE RELATIVE ROLE OF NUTRIENTS
VERSUS HYDROPERIOD.
Q. UNLESS I'VE MISSED SOMETHING, I DON'T THINK THAT
RESEARCH IS BEING DONE, IS IT?
A. YEAH, I'M NOT AWARE OF IT.
Q. OKAY. SO, NO ONE FROM DUKE WETLAND CENTER, TO
YOUR KNOWLEDGE, IS DOING THAT SEPARATING OUT?
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 135
A. NO.
Q. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. YOU TALK HERE ABOUT PEAT
ACCRETION IS RELATED TO HYDROPERIOD AND TO
PHOSPHORUS LOADING. AND YOU'RE TELLING ME THAT
YOU DON'T THINK THEY CAN BE SEPARATED OUT AT THIS
POINT, IS THAT ACCURATE?
A. I DON'T THINK WE HAVE THE HYDROPERIOD -- GOOD
ENOUGH HYPROPERIOD DATA TO SEPARATE IT OUT. YOU
KNOW, I DON'T -- I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY A FAIR
STATEMENT. IT'S -- I DON'T FEEL CONFIDENT; I
DON'T THINK I COULD SEPARATE IT OUT.
Q. OKAY. WHAT KIND OF HYDROPERIOD DATA WOULD YOU
NEED IN ORDER TO SEPARATE IT OUT, IN YOUR
OPINION?
A. IF YOU HAD SOMETHING LIKE DAILY OR WEEKLY WATER
LEVEL DATA AT THE SITES WHERE YOU TOOK YOUR
SAMPLES. AND THEN YOU ALSO COLLECTED SAMPLES FROM
AREAS THAT YOU KNEW WERE RECEIVING NUTRIENT
ENRICHMENTS, SO YOU WOULD HAVE GOOD HYDROPERIOD
DATA THERE, BUT YOU WOULD ALSO SAMPLE SITES THAT
WOULD HAVE A LONG HYDROPERIOD BUT WOULD NOT BE
SUBJECT TO THE FLOW -- TO THE NUTRIENT ENRICHMENT
PROCESS.
Q. I THINK YOU'RE SUGGESTING A RATHER MASSIVE SCALE
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 136
PROJECT, ARE YOU NOT?
A. NOT NECESSARILY. I ALMOST THINK -- IT WOULD BE
HARD TO DO. THE --- I THINK THE SHORTAGE OF DATA
IS GOOD WATER LEVEL DATA FOR SITES WHERE SOILS ARE
COLLECTED AND WHERE PEAT ACCUMU -- YOU KNOW, WHERE
WE MEASURE PEAT ACCUMULATION.
Q. SO, WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS AT THE SITES -- LET'S
SAY, THE ONE, TWO THREE, FOUR, FIVE, SIX -- THE
SEVEN SITES THAT YOU BASED THIS MANUSCRIPT ON,
CRAFT EXHIBIT NUMBER FIVE, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN
USEFUL TO HAVE HYDROPERIOD DATA EACH OF THOSE
SITES?
A. IT WOULD HAVE BEEN GREAT.
Q. WHY DIDN'T YOU?
A. BECAUSE IT WOULD INVOLVE GOING OUT AND SETTING UP
A TIDE -- WELL, NOT A TIDE GAUGE, BUT A WATER
LEVEL RECORDER AT EACH OF THE SITES, AND TRYING TO
CONTINUOUSLY MEASURE IT---
Q. OKAY.
A. ---OR HAVE SOMEBODY GO OUT THERE ONCE A WEEK FOR
THE NEXT TWENTY-FIVE YEARS. YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER,
THE PEAT ACCRETION IS A TWENTY-FIVE YEAR PERIOD,
AND WHAT YOU REALLY NEED IS TWENTY-FIVE YEARS OF
WATER LEVEL DATA AT EACH OF THOSE SITES.
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 137
Q. OKAY. AND HOW LONG A PERIOD DO YOU THINK IT
WOULD TAKE TO HAVE THE KIND OF DATA THAT YOU THINK
WOULD BE NECESSARY TO SEPARATE THE HYDROPERIOD
FROM THE NUTRIENT? WOULD YOU NEED TWENTY-FIVE
YEARS?
A. I WOULD FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH TWENTY-FIVE YEARS OF
DATA.
Q. OKAY. CAN YOU TELL ME -- IS THAT THE REASON WHY
NOBODY IS SEPARATING OUT HYDROPERIOD FROM THE
NUTRIENT ENRICHMENT---
A. I THINK---
Q. ---BECAUSE YOU NEED A TWENTY-FIVE YEAR STUDY?
A. ---I THINK THE -- YEAH, THE DATA JUST DOES NOT
EXIST, OR THERE'S NOT A LOT OF GOOD DATA.
TWENTY-FIVE YEARS AGO, I DON'T THINK PEOPLE
WERE THINKING ABOUT THESE SORTS OF THINGS AND
SO---
Q. OKAY. AND WHAT KIND OF HYDROPERIOD DATA DID YOU
HAVE FOR THIS PARTICULAR CRAFT EXHIBIT NUMBER
FIVE?
A. WELL, AS YOU CAN SEE FROM THE FIGURE HERE, THAT IS
DATA THAT WAS TAKEN FROM THE SOUTH FLORIDA WATER
MANAGEMENT DISTRICT FROM THE SWIM PLAN. IT'S A
FIGURE -- WHY? WE DESIGNED THE FIGURE. BUT THE
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 138
WATER LEVEL DATA THERE SHOWING THE SHADING IS
TAKEN FROM THEM, AND I THINK IT'S BASED ON THEIR
HYDROLOGY MODEL. AND I BELIEVE EVEN IN THE TEXT,
THEY SAY THESE ARE AREAS THAT THEY BELIEVE ARE
WETTER THAN THEY HISTORICALLY WERE, AND THESE
OTHER AREAS THEY BELIEVE ARE DRYER THAN THEY
HISTORICALLY WERE. THAT'S THE BEST DATA I COULD
FIND. AND IT'S -- YOU KNOW, IT'S PRETTY GOOD,
BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S ADEQUATE TO REALLY
QUANTITATIVELY ADDRESS THE DIFFERENCE.
Q. OKAY. SO, WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT FIGURE 1 TO
YOUR CRAFT EXHIBIT NUMBER FIVE, AND IT SAYS AN
OVERDRAINED AREA, AND AN AREA OF EXTENDED
HYDROPERIOD, YOU'RE SAYING THAT THIS CAME FROM
THE '92 SWIM PLAN?
A. WELL, I WOULD HAVE TO LOOK. IF IT -- WHETHER IT
COMES FROM '92, OR -- THIS IS ACTUALLY FROM '90,
BUT IT MAY ALSO BE IN THE '92 SWIM PLAN.
Q. SURE. OKAY. FROM THE '90 SWIM PLAN. AND
ESSENTIALLY THEY DEFINE OVERDRAINED -- THESE AREAS
AS BEING OVERDRAINED AS HAVING LESS WATER THAN
THEY BELIEVE THEY HISTORICALLY HAD, AND THE AREAS
OF EXTENDED HYDROPERIOD ARE AREAS THAT HAVE MORE
WATER THAN HISTORICALLY?
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 139
A. YES.
Q. OKAY. BUT THERE'S NO QUANTIFICATION BEYOND---
A. NO.
Q. ---THAT?
A. NO. HUH-UH (NO).
Q. OKAY. AND THAT'S WHAT YOU BASE YOUR CONCLUSIONS
UPON WAS THAT, THAT DELINEATION?
A. RIGHT.
Q. OKAY. OKAY. I GUESS THE OBVIOUS QUESTION THAT A
LOT OF US ON THIS SIDE OF THE TABLE ARE THINKING
IS, YOU KNOW, WHAT DO YOU DO IN THE SHORT TERM TO
ADDRESS THIS PROBLEM OF PHOSPHORUS CONCENTRATION
VERSUS HYDROPERIOD?
A. I THINK -- AND THIS WOULD COST SOME MONEY ALSO --
WOULD TO BE TRY TO SET UP SOME MESOCOSMS, OR SOME
KIND OF MAYBE THREE METER BY THREE METER CONCRETE
CONTAINERS AND GROW PLANTS UNDER, YOU KNOW, WHERE
YOU CAN ACTUALLY REGULATE THE FLOODING, AND YOU
CAN ALSO REGULATE THE AMOUNT OF PHOSPHORUS THAT,
YOU KNOW, YOU WANT TO ADD TO THE SYSTEM; AND PLANT
IT WITH EMERGENT VEGETATION; AND TRY TO FOLLOW
PEAT BUILDUP OVER A THREE, OR FIVE, OR TEN YEAR
PERIOD. YOU KNOW, A YEAR OF DATA WOULD NOT BE
GOOD ENOUGH. I WOULD THINK THREE WOULD BE
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 140
MINIMUM, AND I'M NOT EVEN SURE IF THAT WOULD
ENOUGH. BUT YOU COULD PUT A -- YOU KNOW, IN A
CONTROLLED ENVIRONMENT LIKE THAT, YOU COULD PUT A
MARK ON THE CONCRETE WALL AS TO WHERE THE SOIL
SURFACE IS AT TIME ZERO, AND MAYBE, YOU KNOW, OVER
THREE GROWING SEASONS TRY TO DETERMINE SOMETHING
ALONG THOSE LINES.
Q. OKAY. YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A GREENHOUSE
EXPERIMENT THAT WOULD -- THE MESOCOSM WOULD
SIMULATE WHAT GOES ON IN THE---
A. OR AN OUTDOOR. YOU COULD DO IT OUTSIDE DOWN THERE
EVEN, I THINK.
Q. OH, OKAY. ALL RIGHT. A MESOCOSM OUTDOORS. AND I
GUESS MY CONCERN IS HOW DO YOU SIMULATE ALL THE
EVERGLADES IN A THREE BY THREE METER AREA.
A. WELL, YOU DO THE BEST YOU CAN. I MEAN, YOU GIVE
UP SOME OF THE REALISM WITH SOMETHING THAT SMALL,
BUT YOU GET A LOT GREATER CONTROL OVER THE
HYDROPERIOD AND THE NUTRIENT LOADING.
Q. OKAY. ARE YOU AWARE OF HYDROPERIOD DATA FOR WATER
CONSERVATION AREA 2A THAT THE SOUTH FLORIDA WATER
MANAGEMENT DISTRICT HAS?
A. SOME. I THINK THEY HAVE A 217 GAUGE. I'M NOT
SURE IF THAT'S THE CORRECT NUMBER, BUT I KNOW THEY
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 141
HAVE A PERMANENT -- ONE PERMANENT LOCATION OUT
THERE, YEAH.
Q. OKAY. HAVE YOU DONE ANY EFFORT TO CORRELATE THAT
WATER LEVEL DATA WITH YOUR NUTRIENT ENRICHMENT
DATA?
A. WE'VE JUST -- I'VE JUST LOOKED AT IT, BUT I
HAVEN'T REALLY TRIED. I JUST FEEL LIKE, YOU KNOW,
ONE POINT LOCATED SIX OR EIGHT MILES AWAY FROM MY
SAMPLING POINTS, I JUST -- YOU JUST CAN'T -- I
DON'T THINK YOU CAN GET A GOOD RELIABLE ESTIMATE;
I THINK THERE'S PROBLEMS THERE.
Q. OKAY.
A. THAT'S GOOD DATA FOR THAT LOCATION, AND I THINK
IT'S GOOD DATA FOR THE TWENTY-FIVE YEAR PERIOD FOR
THAT LOCATION. BUT IF YOU HAD MEASURED PEAT
ACCRETION THERE, YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO RELATE
SOMETHING TO IT.
Q. ALL RIGHT. I -- IS IT YOUR UNDERSTANDING THAT
WATER CONSERVATION AREA 2A DRIES FROM NORTH TO
SOUTH? IF IT DRIES OUT, HOW DOES IT DRY? OR WHEN
IT DRIES -- DURING DROUGHT PERIODS, HOW DOES IT
DRY?
A. I REALLY DON'T KNOW ABOUT THAT.
Q. OKAY. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. CAN YOU -- AND I GUESS
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 142
THIS IS SORT OF A GENERIC TYPE QUESTION, BUT IT'S
SORT OF CENTRAL TO UNDERSTANDING A LOT OF THE
WORK. WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT AN ENRICHED AREA VERSUS
AN UNENRICHED AREA, CAN YOU QUANTIFY THAT FOR ME,
DR. CRAFT?
A. I CAN QUANTIFY IN TERMS OF WHEN I SPEAK OF
ENRICHED, IT'S AN AREA THAT RECEIVES N AND P
ENRICHED WATER.
Q. OKAY. IT'S ENRICHED OVER WHAT? WHAT'S YOUR
BASELINE?
A. I WOULD HAVE TO GO BACK AND LOOK THROUGH THE PAPER
AS TO WHAT THE BASELINE WOULD BE. AREAS -- BY
UNENRICHED AREAS, THAT DO NOT RECEIVE N AND P
ENRICHED AGRICULTURAL DRAINAGE. I THINK THE
CENTRAL PART OF CONSERVATION AREA 3A WOULD BE,
YOU KNOW, AN AREA THAT HASN'T RECEIVED
ENRICHMENT.
Q. OKAY. BUT HOW DO WE KNOW AS -- LET'S SAY WE'RE
JUST STOMPING THROUGH 2A -- YOU KNOW, I'M JUST A
LITTLE FIELD RESEARCHER STOMPING THROUGH THE
MARSH, AND I'M NOT LOOKING AT THE MACROPHYTES OR
THE PERIPHYTON TO TRY AND DECIDE IF I'M IN AN
ENRICHED AREA OR NOT, I'M JUST MOVING THROUGH
TESTING SOIL AND WATER. WHERE DO I DECIDE THAT I
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 143
HAVE COME TO AN UNENRICHED SITE? WHAT WILL I FIND
AT THAT UNENRICHED SITE NUMERICALLY?
A. WELL, YOU WOULD FIND -- IF YOU'RE TROMPING ALONG
AND TAKING SAMPLES PERIODICALLY, YOU'LL REACH
A POINT WHERE -- LET'S SAY YOU'RE MEASURING
SURFACE -- PHOSPHORUS CONCENTRATION IN THE SURFACE
SOIL---
Q. UH-HUH (YES).
A. ---IT LEVELS OFF, OR, YOU KNOW, IT DECLINES AS YOU
MOVE AWAY FROM THE HILLSBORO CANAL, AND AT SOME
POINT IT KIND OF LEVELS OFF.
Q. OH, SO, WHEN I REACH A LEVELING OFF POINT, YOU
BELIEVE THAT WOULD BE UNENRICHED?
A. WELL, BUT YOU HAVE TO KEEP FOLLOWING YOUR LINE AND
MAKE SURE IT DOESN'T COME BACK UP AGAIN, YOU KNOW,
BECAUSE---
Q. OKAY. IS IT POSSIBLE THAT VIRTUALLY ALL OF 2A
WOULD BE ENRICHED?
A. IT'S POSSIBLE, BUT I DON'T THINK SO.
Q. WHY?
A. JUST FROM THE DATA THAT WE -- THAT I'VE COLLECTED,
I REACH A POINT WHERE WE SEEM TO REACH THESE
BACKGROUND PHOSPHORUS LEVELS IN THE SOIL, AND
THEY'RE COMPARABLE TO WHAT WE SEE IN CONSERVATION
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 144
AREA 3A.
Q. OKAY. SO, YOU'RE JUDGING THE BACKGROUND IN 2A BY
WHAT YOU FIND IN 3A?
A. NOT -- NO, NOT NECESSARILY, BUT I THINK THAT IS
ONE PIECE OF INFORMATION THAT CAN BE USED.
Q. OKAY. AND WHAT ARE THOSE CONCENTRATION RANGES?
A. WE SEE -- AT LEAST FOR TOTAL SOIL PHOSPHORUS, IT
SEEMS -- BACKGROUND SEEMS TO BE AROUND LESS THAN
SIX HUNDRED MICROGRAMS PER GRAM, OR FIVE TO SIX
HUNDRED MICROGRAMS PER GRAM. AND THIS IS JUST
BASED ON TOTAL SOIL PHOSPHORUS, NOW.
Q. YOU'RE SAYING SIX HUNDRED MICROGRAMS?
A. FIVE TO SIX HUNDRED.
Q. FIVE TO SIX HUNDRED?
A. (NODS AFFIRMATIVELY.)
Q. AND IS THAT THE SAME IN 3A?
A. THAT SEEMS TO BE SIMILAR. THESE ARE IN THE
SURFACE SOILS, NOW.
Q. OKAY. HOW ABOUT PORE?
A. I HAVEN'T DONE ANY OF THAT KIND OF WORK, SO.
Q. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. HAVE YOU BEEN ANYWHERE, OTHER
THAN 3A, WHERE YOU WOULD JUDGE A BACKGROUND
AREA?
A. 2B. BUT THE SOILS ARE SOMEWHAT DIFFERENT THERE,
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 145
AND, SO, IT'S A LITTLE BIT HARDER TO COMPARE THEM.
AND THEY SEEM TO HAVE MORE MINERAL MATERIAL IN
THEM.
Q. ARE THEY MORE MARLY PEAT IN 2B?
A. THERE IS MORE MARL. THERE'S STILL PEAT, BUT THEY
ARE SHALLOWER -- THE PEATS ARE SHALLOWER THERE,
AND THERE'S A LITTLE BIT -- THERE SEEMS TO BE MORE
MINERAL MATERIAL.
Q. DOES THAT AFFECT THE PHOSPHORUS LEVELS?
A. IT CAN, YEAH.
Q. DO YOU THINK IT DOES?
A. YEAH, I THINK THE MINERAL CONTENT DOES. IT IS ONE
DETERMINATE OF PHOSPHORUS CONCENTRATION -- CAN BE
A DETERMINATE.
Q. OKAY. HAVE YOU BEEN ANYWHERE ELSE THAT YOU COULD
JUDGE A BACKGROUND LEVEL OF PHOSPHORUS?
A. NO.
Q. OKAY. WILL YOU BE LOOKING AT THE DATA THAT'S
COLLECTED IN THE PARK AND THE REFUGE AND COMPARING
IT?
A. IF I EVER GET TO GO INTO THE PARK AND THE REFUGE
TO TAKE SAMPLES, I'M SURE I WOULD, BUT---
Q. OKAY. ARE YOU AWARE THAT PEOPLE WILL BE GOING
INTO THE PARK AND THE REFUGE?
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 146
A. I AM, NOW.
Q. OKAY. HAVE YOU HELPED DESIGN THOSE STUDIES IN THE
PARK AND THE REFUGE?
A. WE'VE TALKED ABOUT IT, AND IT SEEMS LIKE EVERY
FALL FOR THE PAST TWO YEARS, WE TALK ABOUT IT AND
THEN NOTHING EVER HAPPENS, SO---
Q. IT'S POSSIBLE THAT EVEN AS WE SPEAK, DR. CRAFT,
THERE ARE PEOPLE MARCHING INTO THE REFUGE PULLING
SAMPLES.
A. IS THIS TRUE?
Q. YES.
A. WELL, GOOD.
Q. NOW---
A. OF COURSE, I WOULD FEEL BETTER, IF I'M GOING TO BE
DOING THE ANALYSIS, THAT I'M INVOLVED TO SOME
EXTENT IN THAT. BUT WE'LL SEE.
Q. OH, SO, YOU DO NOT KNOW IF YOU WILL BE ALLOWED TO
PARTICIPATE IN THESE COLLECTIONS?
A. WELL, IF THEY'RE COLLECTING NOW, I DON'T THINK
YOU-ALL ARE GOING TO ALLOW ME TO PARTICIPATE, SO.
I JUST FEEL LIKE IF I AM INVOLVED IN THE ANALYSIS,
I LIKE TO BE INVOLVED IN THE SAMPLE COLLECTION
TO MAKE SURE THAT THINGS ARE DONE UP TO MY
EXPECTATIONS.
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 147
Q. OKAY. ARE YOU AWARE OF WHO'S DOING THE SAMPLE
COLLECTIONS?
A. NO. THIS IS NEWS TO ME, SO---
Q. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. AND YOU DON'T KNOW IF YOU'RE
GOING TO BE ASKED TO ANALYZE THOSE SAMPLE
COLLECTIONS?
A. NOT AT THIS POINT.
Q. OKAY.
A. I MEAN, THIS IS -- I WILL SAY, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT
THIS OFF AND ON FOR TWO YEARS AND NOTHING EVER
HAPPENS, SO.
Q. I AM WELL AWARE OF THE HISTORY. I'D LIKE TO ASK
YOU WHO THE "WE" IS?
A. ME AND DR. RICHARDSON---
Q. OKAY.
A. ---AND I THINK DR. QUALLS. YOU KNOW, ALL THREE
OF US HAS TALKED ABOUT IT AT ONE TIME OR ANOTHER,
BECAUSE WE ALL HAVE AN INTEREST---
Q. OKAY.
A. ---CAUSE WE HAVE, LIKE, PIECES OF THE EVERGLADES,
BUT WE DON'T HAVE THE WHOLE -- THE WHOLE
FRUITCAKE, SO TO SPEAK.
Q. OKAY. HAVE YOU DESIGNED THE COLLECTION OF THE
FRUITCAKE?
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 148
A. NO, I HAVEN'T BEEN INVOLVED IN DESIGN -- I MEAN,
WE'VE TALKED A LITTLE BIT ON A BLACKBOARD LIKE OF
WHERE WE THINK WE WOULD LIKE TO SAMPLE, AND HOW
MANY SAMPLES WE WOULD LIKE TO TAKE, BUT WE NEVER
REALLY FORMULATED A GAME PLAN.
Q. OKAY. WHAT ASPECTS OF COLLECTION ARE YOU
CONCERNED ABOUT IN CORE SAMPLING?
MR. BURGESS: IN -- I'M SORRY, IS
THIS IN GENERAL OR WITH RESPECT TO THE
PARK AND THE REFUGE?
MS. PONZOLI: THIS IS -- HE SAID HE
WOULD LIKE TO BE THERE; IF HE WERE GOING
TO ANALYZE IT, HE WOULD LIKE TO COLLECT IT.
Q. (BY MS. PONZOLI) WASN'T THAT RIGHT?
A. RIGHT.
MR. BURGESS: SO, THIS IS A
HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION, IF HE WAS INVOLVED,
WHAT IS IMPORTANT TO HIM.
MS. PONZOLI: DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE
QUESTION?
WITNESS: I THINK SO.
MS. PONZOLI: OKAY, YOU CAN ANSWER IT.
WITNESS: OKAY.
A. I WOULD JUST LIKE TO MAKE SURE THAT THE CORE IS
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 149
TAKEN IN WHAT I WOULD CONSIDER A REPRESENTATIVE
SORT OF LOCATION RELATIVE TO OUR PREVIOUS CORES;
MAKING SURE WE DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH
COMPACTION OF THE CORE WHEN WE TAKE IT; MAKING
SURE WE GET A WHOLE CORE; AND THOSE SORTS OF
THINGS.
Q. OKAY. WHAT IS A REPRESENTATIVE LOCATION? SIMILAR
TO -- WELL, YOU SAID RELATIVE TO YOUR PRIOR
LOCATIONS?
A. (NODS AFFIRMATIVELY.)
Q. OKAY.
A. MAINLY IN SAWGRASS MARSHES, OR IN EMERGENT
VEGETATION, AS OPPOSED TO, LIKE, TAKING CORES IN
SLOUGHS. BECAUSE ALL OUR WORK UP TILL NOW HAS
FOCUSED IN THESE AREAS WHERE THE MACROPHYTES ARE
GROWING. AND I THINK THERE'S PROBABLY A
DIFFERENCE IN PEAT BUILDUP BETWEEN SLOUGHS AND
MACROPHYTE COMMUNITIES.
Q. IF IT WERE A MACROPHYTE COMMUNITY THAT WAS HEAVILY
CATTAIL, WOULD THAT MAKE A DIFFERENCE?
A. YEAH. WE WOULD TAKE SAMPLES IN THOSE, THOUGH, I
MEAN. AND, YOU KNOW, IF IT'S A MONOTYPIC STAND OF
CATTAIL OR ESSENTIALLY A MIXED OR FULL STAND OF
CATTAIL.
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 150
Q. WOULD THOSE BE COMPARABLE TO YOUR SAWGRASS MARSHES
THAT YOU TOOK BEFORE?
A. THEY WOULD BE COMPARABLE TO THE CATTAIL SITES THAT
WE SAMPLED IN 2A.
Q. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THEN ANYTHING ELSE ABOUT
REPRESENTATIVE LOCATIONS THAT YOU WOULD THINK
WOULD BE IMPORTANT?
A. NO. I THINK THAT'S -- THAT I CAN THINK OF,
THAT'S IT.
Q. YOU MEAN LIKE YOU WOULD WANT TO LOOK AT, LIKE,
DENSE CATTAIL TO DENSE CATTAIL, OR MAYBE SOME
RELATIVE MIX OF SAWGRASS/CATTAIL TO
SAWGRASS/CATTAIL FROM BEFORE? IS THAT ACCURATE?
AM I UNDERSTANDING YOU ACCURATELY?
A. NO, NOT SO MUCH THERE, JUST MORE TO MAKE SURE THAT
WE DON'T SAMPLE ON THE EDGE OF A SLOUGH.
Q. OKAY.
A. A LOT OF TIMES WHEN YOU'RE OUT IN THE FIELDS, IT'S
VERY -- THE EASIEST SAMPLE TO GET IS THE ONE RIGHT
THERE IN THESE OPEN AREAS, BUT I DON'T THINK
THEY'RE ENTIRELY REPRESENTATIVE. YOU'VE GOT TO
WALK INTO THE GRASS SOME AND THEN TAKE YOUR
SAMPLE.
Q. OKAY. OKAY. THE COMPACTION OF THE CORE -- JUST
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 151
SO I UNDERSTAND IT -- WHAT'S THE PROBLEM WITH THE
COMPACTION OF THE CORE?
A. IT COMPRESSES SOMETIMES AS YOU PUSH THE CORE INTO
THE SOIL.
Q. RIGHT.
A. AND YOU DEFINITELY WANT TO MINIMIZE OR AVOID
THAT.
Q. OKAY. SO, THERE'S SOME ART IN USING THE DEVICE
THAT PULLS THE CORE SAMPLE OUT?
A. WELL, AND YOU HAVE TO SOMETIMES TAKE -- YOU KNOW,
DISCARD ONE CORE AND GO TAKE IT, YOU KNOW, A FEW
FEET AWAY BECAUSE YOU HAD SOME COMPACTION. YOU
DON'T JUST, WELL, THAT'S GOOD ENOUGH AND, YOU
KNOW, THROW IT IN. AND THERE ARE MANY TIMES WHEN
WE TAKE THREE OR FOUR TO GET ONE THAT WE FEEL LIKE
WE'RE HAPPY WITH, SO---
Q. ALL RIGHT. AND IF I UNDERSTOOD, THE TECHNIQUE THE
WETLAND CENTER USES IS ONE THAT DR. RICHARDSON HAS
DEVISED. IT'S A THREE-SIDED DEVICE---
A. YES.
Q. ---THAT YOU SORT OF, LIKE, SLIP DOWN INTO THE
SOIL, AND THEN YOU SLIP THE LAST SIDE DOWN---
A. RIGHT.
Q. ---AND THEN LIFT THE WHOLE THING OUT, IS THAT
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 152
ACCURATE?
A. RIGHT. YES.
Q. OKAY. AND WHAT IS THIS CONCEPT OF THE WHOLE
CORE?
A. DEPENDING ON -- THIS CORE CAN TAKE A FIFTY TO
SIXTY CENTIMETER LONG CORE, AND I JUST WANT TO
MAKE SURE THAT -- IT'S BETTER TO GET AN EXTRA
LONG CORE THAN TO FIND OUT THAT YOU ONLY TOOK A
TWENTY-FIVE CENTIMETER CORE AND FOUND OUT THAT
THAT WASN'T -- YOU DIDN'T GO DOWN DEEP ENOUGH.
SO, I WOULD LIKE TO TAKE PROBABLY A FIFTY
CENTIMETER LONG CORE. AND, YOU KNOW, THERE'S MORE
WORK INVOLVED DOING THAT, BUT -- AND IT TAKES
LONGER -- BUT IT WILL SAVE YOU TIME IN THE LONG
RUN BACK AT THE LAB.
Q. OKAY. LET ME ASK YOU ONE MORE QUESTION. CAN YOU
SPLIT THESE CORES? IS IT POSSIBLE TO SPLIT THEM
SO THAT, FOR EXAMPLE, VARIOUS SIDES COULD DO THEIR
OWN ANALYSIS? LIKE, LET'S SAY IF ONE GROUP WANTED
TO DO ITS ANALYSIS, AND THEN AN OPPOSING GROUP
SAID, WELL, YOUR RESULTS ARE SORT OF FUNNY, WE
WANT TO DO OUR OWN ANALYSIS. CAN YOU SPLIT THESE
CORES?
A. I'VE NOT TRIED IT. I MEAN, I THINK CONCEIVABLY
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 153
YOU COULD. YOU WOULD HAVE TO FREEZE IT, AND THEN
PROBABLY CUT IT DOWN THE MIDDLE WITH A BAND SAW OR
SOMETHING LIKE THAT. THE LIMITATION IS, IS THIS
CORE IS ONLY ABOUT THIS BIG AROUND---
Q. RIGHT.
A. ---AND IF YOU SPLIT IT, YOU MAY NOT END UP WITH
ENOUGH MATERIAL TO DO THE ANALYSIS. BUT, I DON'T
KNOW; THAT WOULD DEPEND.
Q. HAVE YOU EVER -- HAVE YOU EVER, IN THE EVERGLADES,
DUG A PIT AND COMPARED THE SOIL PIT PROFILE TO,
LIKE, A CORE PROFILE OUT THERE?
A. NO, I'VE NEVER DONE THAT.
Q. ME EITHER. WHY -- WE WERE TALKING EARLIER ABOUT
AN EMERGENT MARSH SITE BEING REPRESENTATIVE. WHY
IS AN EMERGENT MARSH SITE MORE REPRESENTATIVE
THAN, LIKE, THAT EDGE OF THE SLOUGH YOU WERE
TALKING ABOUT?
A. WELL, FROM THE LITERATURE, AND ALSO FROM WHAT I'VE
SEEN OUT THERE, IS SAWGRASS IS THE DOMINANT PLANT
COMMUNITY IN THE EVERGLADES. AND SO IT WOULD MAKE
MORE SENSE, AT LEAST WHEN YOU'RE FIRST STARTING TO
TAKE SAMPLES, IS TO FOCUS ON THE AREA THAT
OCCUPIES THE BIGGEST -- THE GREATEST EXTENT OF
ACREAGE.
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 154
Q. OKAY. OKAY. GOING BACK TO THE SOIL CORES, HOW DO
YOU EVALUATE COMPACTION?
A. YOU CAN SEE, AS YOU PUSH IT IN, WHETHER YOU'RE
GOING TO HAVE -- WHETHER YOU ARE GETTING
COMPACTION. AND ONE NICE THING ABOUT THE
THREE-SIDED CORE IS IT TENDS TO HAVE LESS
COMPACTION THAN OTHER CORES. AND, ALSO, BY
HAVING THE THIRD SIDE OPEN, YOU CAN SEE WHETHER
YOU'RE HAVING A PROBLEM WITH COMPACTION OR NOT.
AND THEN, YOU KNOW, PULL IT BACK OUT AND GO TRY
TO TAKE A SAMPLE ELSEWHERE. THAT'S THE BEST
THING ABOUT IT, IS YOU CAN ACTUALLY SEE WHAT'S
GOING ON.
Q. AND HOW MANY REPLICATES DO YOU BELIEVE YOU NEED?
A. THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION; I REALLY DON'T KNOW. THE
MORE, THE BETTER, IS GENERALLY WHAT WE SAY IN
SCIENCE, BUT YOU'RE CONSTRAINED AT SOME POINT BY
THE PRACTICAL ASPECTS---
Q. OKAY. SO, MONEY AND TIME---
A. ---A MINIMUM OF TWO, YOU KNOW---
Q. ---BECOME LIMITING FACTORS?
A. YEAH, SURE.
Q. OKAY. OKAY. RETURNING TO YOUR MANUSCRIPT, ON
PAGE 1, YOU INDICATE AT THE BOTTOM THAT NUTRIENT
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 155
ENRICHMENT OF WATER CONSERVATION AREA 2A IS -- VIA
RAINFALL AND SURFACE FLOW WERE SIX TO EIGHT TIMES
HIGHER THAN INPUTS TO THE UNENRICHED PART OF 2A.
YOU'RE NOT IMPLYING THAT RAINFALL HAS INCREASED
SIX TO EIGHT TIMES, ARE YOU?
A. NO, NO. I JUST MEAN THE OVERALL INPUT---
Q. OKAY.
A. ---OF PHOSPHORUS TO THE SYSTEM.
Q. ALL RIGHT. HAVE YOU DONE ANY COMPARISON OF THE
INCREASE OF PHOSPHORUS IN RAINFALL?
A. NO. THAT DATA, I HAVE TAKEN FROM THE SOUTH
FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT SWIM PLAN.
Q. SO, YOU JUST TAKE WHATEVER THE RAINFALL PHOSPHORUS
INPUT THAT'S REFLECTED IN THE SWIM PLAN, THAT'S
THE PHOSPHORUS INPUT THAT YOU'RE---
A. THAT'S WHAT I HAVE USED IN HERE, YES.
Q. OKAY. OKAY. I DON'T REMEMBER IF IT WERE IN THIS
PAPER, OR IN CRAFT EXHIBIT NUMBER SIXTEEN, BUT I
THINK YOU INDICATED THAT THE PHOSPHORUS IN METRIC
TONS TO -- WAS IT 2A -- WAS FIFTY-FOUR METRIC
TONS?
A. THAT, IF I'M CORRECT, IS THE AMOUNT THAT COMES
THROUGH THE GATES INTO 2A.
Q. OKAY.
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 156
A. IT DOES NOT INCLUDE THE RAINFALL.
Q. AND THE RAINFALL PUTS IT UP TO SIXTY-ONE?
A. I THINK SO. THAT -- I MEAN, THAT SOUNDS
CORRECT.
Q. THAT SOUNDS RIGHT?
A. UH-HUH (YES).
Q. OKAY. AND THE DIFFERENCE YOU GOT FROM FIFTY-FOUR
TO SIXTY-ONE WAS JUST FROM THE SOUTH FLORIDA---
A. RIGHT.
Q. ---SWIM PLAN?
A. RIGHT.
Q. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. AT THE BOTTOM OF THAT PAGE,
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE EFFICIENCY OF PHOSPHORUS
REMOVAL IS LOWER IN THE ENRICHED SITE, WHICH IS
EIGHTY-SEVEN PERCENT, YOU SAY, THAN AT THE
UNENRICHED LOCATION -- WHICH IS A HUNDRED PERCENT.
GIVE ME A MOMENT HERE.
THE EFFICIENCY CONCEPT IS IMPORTANT IN THIS
PAPER, ISN'T THAT TRUE? I'M HAVING TROUBLE WITH
YOUR EFFICIENCY CONCEPT, AND SO THAT'S WHY I'M
HAVING TROUBLE. I HAVE TROUBLE UNDERSTANDING IT,
AND I'M HAVING TROUBLE FRAMING MY QUESTIONS. SO,
JUST GIVE ME SOME TIME---
A. OKAY.
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 157
Q. ---AND I THINK I SEE SOME, AT LEAST FROM MY VIEW,
SOME DIFFERENCE IN WHAT YOU SAID IN YOUR ABSTRACT
AND YOUR CONCLUSIONS, IF I UNDERSTAND THIS, SO
JUST GIVE ME A SECOND HERE.
EXPLAIN TO ME -- WHY DON'T WE START -- WHY
DON'T I JUST HAVE YOU EDUCATE ME AS TO WHAT YOU
ARE MEANING WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT EFFICIENCY AND
THAT MAY HELP ME FRAME MY QUESTIONS BETTER.
WHAT IS YOUR CENTRAL CONCEPT THROUGHOUT THIS
PAPER ON THE EFFICIENCY OF PHOSPHORUS REMOVAL IN
THE ENRICHED SITES AND THE UNENRICHED SITES? WHY
DON'T WE START WITH THAT.
A. NOW I'M CONFUSED.
Q. I CAN DO IT TO ANYONE.
A. OKAY. REPEAT THE QUESTION AGAIN. I THOUGHT I
KNEW WHAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT, BUT NOW I'M NOT
SO SURE.
Q. OKAY. EFFICIENCY OF PHOSPHORUS REMOVAL IN AN
UNENRICHED VERSUS ENRICHED SITE IS AN IMPORTANT
CONCEPT IN THIS MANUSCRIPT, IS IT NOT?
A. YES, BUT IT'S NOT ESSENTIAL; IT'S NOT -- I THINK
YOU MAY BE OVERSTATING THE IMPORTANCE OF IT---
Q. ISN'T IT---
A. ---I MEAN, IT'S DEFINITELY SOMETHING THAT I TALK
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 158
ABOUT, BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S ONE OF THE -- IT'S
NOT A CENTRAL CONCEPT TO THE PAPER.
Q. OKAY. WELL, EVEN IF IT'S A SECONDARY CONCEPT---
A. OKAY.
Q. ---I WANT TO UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU BELIEVE IS GOING
ON IN EFFICIENCY?
A. EFFICIENCY ALLOWS YOU TO KIND OF COMPARE -- IT'S
A RELATIVE SORT OF THING. AS AN EXAMPLE, LET'S
SAY YOU HAVE TWO DIFFERENT WETLANDS EACH OF WHICH
STORE, SAY, ONE GRAM OF PHOSPHORUS PER METER
SQUARED PER YEAR. IF YOU LOOK AT THOSE TWO
NUMBERS, THEY'RE THE SAME. AND YOU WOULD SAY,
WELL, THE TWO WETLANDS ARE THE SAME. BUT LET'S
SAY ONE WETLAND HAS A MUCH HIGHER INPUT OF
PHOSPHORUS TO THE SYSTEM -- YOU KNOW, IT HAS TEN
TIMES AS MUCH PHOSPHORUS COMING INTO THE SYSTEM
THAN THE OTHER ONE. SO, THIS ALLOWS YOU TO SORT
OF COMPARE THE RELATIVE, HOW IT FUNCTIONS, IN
TERMS OF THIS ECOSYSTEM PROCESS OF PHOSPHORUS
STORAGE OR NUTRIENT STORAGE. AM I MAKING SENSE
HERE?
Q. I THINK SO. SO -- JUST SO I'M CLEAR, THOUGH -- I
MEAN, I HAVE TO GET THIS CONCEPT STRAIGHT, BECAUSE
I BELIEVE THAT IT IS AN IMPORTANT CONCEPT, THAT AT
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 159
LEAST OTHER PEOPLE WILL WALK AWAY FROM YOUR
MANUSCRIPT WITH, WHATEVER IMPORTANCE YOU PLACED ON
IT. OKAY?
A. (NODS AFFIRMATIVELY.)
Q. ARE YOU SAYING THAT -- LIKE AT THE TOP OF 2A --
THAT IT IS VERY EFFICIENT IN THE ENRICHED AREAS
BECAUSE IT'S PULLING OUT MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF
PHOSPHORUS?
A. WELL, IN TERMS OF THIS, THE WAY I REFER TO
EFFICIENCY, IT'S ACTUALLY LESS EFFICIENT, BECAUSE
THERE'S SO MUCH PHOSPHORUS COMING INTO THE SYSTEM
THAT PERHAPS IT CAN'T ASSIMILATE ALL OF IT. WELL,
HERE EIGHTY-SEVEN PERCENT (87%) OF WHAT'S COMING
IN IS BEING REMOVED, BUT THAT MEANS THIRTEEN
PERCENT (13%) OF WHATEVER IS COMING IN IS NOT
BEING STORED.
Q. RIGHT. BUT THERE'S SO MUCH COMING IN---
A. RIGHT.
Q. ---VERSUS WHAT'S COMING IN, LET'S SAY, TO THE
BOTTOM OF -- WELL, YOUR---
A. WELL, THAT'S WHERE YOU HAVE TO THINK ABOUT
EFFICIENCY IN TERMS OF THIS RELATIVE SORT OF
THING.
Q. OKAY. LET'S TAKE AT THE BOTTOM OF 10D, YOUR
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 160
SIXTH---
A. OKAY.
Q. ---SITE LOCATION AT THE BOTTOM OF 10D.
A. OKAY.
Q. WHAT ARE THE SURFACE WATER CONCENTRATIONS COMING
IN AT YOUR FIRST SITE ALONG 10D, JUST BELOW THESE
STRUCTURES?
A. I DON'T REALLY HAVE THAT NUMBER. AGAIN, THAT'S
DR. QUALLS' WORK. BUT, SUFFICE IT TO SAY, IT'S
HIGHER AT D1 THAN AT D6.
Q. SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER---
A. YES.
Q. ---THAN D6?
A. YEAH.
Q. OKAY. D1 IS PULLING OUT A LOT OF PHOSPHORUS
BECAUSE IT'S DEPOSITING ALONG THE GRADIENT, IS IT
NOT?
A. RIGHT.
Q. OKAY.
A. IT'S REMOVING MORE THAN D6. D1 TAKES OUT MORE
PHOSPHORUS PER -- IN GRAMS, PER METER SQUARED PER
YEAR THAN D6 DOES.
Q. OKAY. BUT YOU'RE SAYING THAT'S LESS EFFICIENT
THAN D6, IF I UNDERSTAND YOUR STATEMENT HERE?
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 161
A. WELL, THIS IS MORE -- THIS -- I'M REFERRING HERE
MORE NOT SO MUCH NOT SO MUCH IN TERMS OF THINKING
OF THESE THINGS AS NUTRIENT -- AS A FILTER SO
MUCH, BUT MORE THE ECOLOGICAL APPLICATION. IN
TERMS OF -- THIS SORT OF SUGGESTS THAT MAYBE
PHOSPHORUS IS SOMEWHAT LIMITING AT THESE AREAS
WHEN -- IF IT REMOVES A HUNDRED PERCENT OF THE
PHOSPHORUS, THEN THAT TELLS YOU THAT MAYBE THERE
IS A SHORTAGE OF PHOSPHORUS FOR THE ORGANISMS
THERE, AND THAT'S WHY THEY'RE SUCKING IT ALL OUT.
OR ELSE THERE'S SO LITTLE COMING INTO THE SYSTEM,
AND IT IS LIMITING, THAT THEY ARE SUCKING IT OUT.
WHEREAS, UP HERE, AT EIGHTY-SEVEN PERCENT, SURE
THERE IS A LOT COMING IN, AND THERE'S PROBABLY
A LOT MORE COMING IN THAN THE COMMUNITY NEEDS
TO GROW, OR EVOLVE, OR WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL
IT.
Q. THAT SUPPORTS THE WELL -- THE WELL-DOCUMENTED AND
WIDELY HELD BELIEF THAT PHOSPHORUS IS THE LIMITING
FACTOR, DOESN'T IT?
A. OH, YES, I THINK SO.
Q. OKAY. OKAY. SO, IN REALITY, THIS EFFICIENCY
CONCEPT, FROM A LAYMAN'S STANDPOINT, IS ALMOST THE
OPPOSITE OF WHAT YOU REALLY THINK IT MEANS?
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 162
A. WELL, I DON'T KNOW IF I WOULD SAY THAT. MAYBE
REPHRASE YOUR QUESTION; I DON'T REALLY FOLLOW YOU
HERE.
Q. WELL, I THINK I UNDERSTOOD WHAT YOU SAID, AND I --
YOU KNOW, YOU'RE SAYING THAT THAT IS LESS
EFFICIENT AT THE TOP, AT D1 THAN AT D6. BUT THAT
ONLY MEANS THAT THE SYSTEM IS NOT HUNGRY AT D1.
THE SYSTEM IS ALREADY, LET'S SAY, PHOSPHORUS
SATURATED, IS THAT ACCURATE?
A. I THINK WE ARE USING EFFICIENCY IN TWO
DIFFERENT -- I VIEW IT KIND OF AS ONE DEFINITION,
AND YOU VIEW IT AS ANOTHER, IN TERMS OF---
Q. OKAY. CAN YOU GIVE ME YOUR DEFINITION OF
EFFICIENCY? I THINK I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU
SAID BEFORE, BUT GIVE ME YOUR DEFINITION OF
EFFICIENCY.
A. I'M NOT QUITE SURE WHAT I'M -- WHAT -- I'M A
LITTLE CONFUSED RIGHT NOW. SO, COULD YOU REPHRASE
THE QUESTION? I'M NOT QUITE SURE WHAT YOU MEAN
HERE.
Q. WELL, I WANT YOU TO DEFINE EFFICIENCY FOR ME.
A. EFFICIENCY HERE IS -- ONE HUNDRED PERCENT
EFFICIENT WOULD REMOVE IT ALL. IT IF REMOVES
LESS THAN ONE HUNDRED PERCENT, IT'S A -- IT'S A
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 163
RELATIVE SORT OF NUMBER. IT'S SORT OF A
PERCENTAGE OF, YOU KNOW, THE INPUT VERSUS THE
STORAGE.
Q. OKAY. OKAY. RETURNING TO THE CORE SAMPLES,
THERE'S A QUESTION. CAN YOU EVER COMPLETELY
ELIMINATE COMPACTION EFFECTS WHEN YOU TAKE A CORE
SAMPLE?
A. YOU MAY HAVE A -- YOU CAN NEVER BE ONE HUNDRED
PERCENT CERTAIN, BUT YOU CAN BE NINETY-FIVE TO
NINETY-NINE PERCENT CERTAIN. IF YOU TAKE A CORE
AND YOU LOOK AND YOU SEE THAT THE SOIL ELEVATION
INSIDE THE CORE IS AT THE SAME LEVEL AS OUTSIDE
THE CORE, THEN YOU'VE DONE A GOOD JOB. IF YOU
SEE, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S HAPPENED INSIDE THE CORE
DROPPED TWO INCHES, THEN YOU KNOW YOU HAVE
PROBLEMS, AND YOU HAVE TO PRETTY MUCH PULL YOUR
CORE OUT AND GO TAKE ANOTHER CORE.
Q. IS THERE SOME LEARNING CURVE FOR HOW TO DO THESE
CORE SAMPLINGS IN THE EVERGLADES?
A. WELL, I THINK IT'S LIKE ANYTHING ELSE, THE MORE
YOU DO IT, THE BETTER YOU GET. YOU REACH SOME
ASYMPTOTE, THOUGH, WHERE -- YOU KNOW, I MEAN, I'VE
TAKEN A LOT OF CORES, I WON'T SAY I'M AN -- YOU
KNOW, I JUST -- I'M PROBABLY A PRETTY GOOD FIELD
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 164
GRUNT OUT THERE; I'VE TAKEN A LOT OF SOIL CORES,
SO. AND I'VE WORKED IN OTHER PEAT BASED WETLANDS
TOO, SO.
Q. IS THERE ANY WAY YOU COULD -- IS IT JUST A
PERSONAL THING WHEN YOU LEARN TO DO THIS
APPROPRIATELY OR NOT? I MEAN, THERE'S NO TIME --
THERE'S NO TIME -- IT DOESN'T TAKE, LIKE, SEVERAL
FIELD TRIPS---
A. NO, NO.
Q. ---OR SOME PEOPLE DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME,
OTHER PEOPLE HAVE TO LEARN FOR A WHILE, IS THAT
ACCURATE?
A. RIGHT. IT'S SORT OF LIKE PROBABLY DIGGING A POST
HOLE. YOU KNOW, YOU GET IT DEEP ENOUGH THE FIRST
TIME, OR -- I MEAN, IT'S LIKE ANYTHING ELSE. IT'S
PHYSICAL LABOR, AND YOU USE YOUR EYES AND YOUR
BRAIN A LITTLE BIT, AND YOU CAN TAKE A PRETTY GOOD
CORE.
Q. DOES COMPACTION TEND TO OVER OR UNDERESTIMATE
ACCRETION RATE?
A. COMPACTION WILL TEND TO UNDERESTIMATE THE
ACCRETION RATE; IT WILL MAKE IT LESS.
Q. IS THERE ANY WAY TO SORT THAT OUT WHEN YOU'RE
LOOKING AT YOUR DATA TO KIND OF FIGURE OUT IF YOU
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 165
HAD THAT GOING ON OVER THE COURSE OF YOUR CORE
SAMPLES?
A. NO. YOU HAVE TO DO IT IN THE FIELD TO MAKE SURE
YOU TAKE THE CORE RIGHT THE FIRST TIME. I MEAN,
THAT'S THE REAL KEY IS, IT'S SOMETHING YOU WANT
TO, YOU KNOW, DO RIGHT -- CORRECTLY THE FIRST
TIME---
Q. OKAY.
A. ---OR -- YOU KNOW, IN THE FIELD.
Q. ALL RIGHT. NOW, YOU STATE AT THE END OF YOUR
ABSTRACT, ON PAGE 2, THAT YOUR FINDINGS -- OR OUR
FINDINGS -- I GUESS REFERRING TO -- IS THAT YOURS
AND DR. RICHARDSON'S, OR REALLY THE WHOLE DUKE
WETLAND CENTER'S FINDINGS?
A. WELL, HERE SINCE WE'RE THE COAUTHORS, IT REALLY
MORE REFERS TO US.
Q. OKAY.
A. I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY, THE UNDER INVESTIGATION REFERS
TO THE ENTIRE PROJECT, YOU KNOW.
Q. OKAY.
A. AND, ACTUALLY, IT REFERS TO OTHER PEOPLE. YOU
KNOW, IT COULD REFER TO THE SOUTH FLORIDA WATER
MANAGEMENT DISTRICT AND PEOPLE WHO ARE DOING
SIMILAR TYPES OF RESEARCH.
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 166
Q. OKAY. OUR FINDINGS SUGGESTS THAT NUTRIENT
ENRICHED AGRICULTURAL DRAINAGE HAS CONTRIBUTED TO
INCREASED RATES OF PEAT ACCRETION AND PHOSPHORUS
ACCUMULATION IN AREAS OF THE NORTHERN EVERGLADES
THAT HAVE BEEN RECEIVING AGRICULTURAL DRAINAGE FOR
THE PAST TWENTY-FIVE TO THIRTY YEARS. HOW DOES
NUTRIENT ENRICHMENT DO THIS?
A. IT ADDS THE N AND THE P. IT ADDS THE NUTRIENTS,
WHICH ENABLE -- WELL, I'M NOT QUITE SURE -- AGAIN,
CAN YOU REPHRASE THE QUESTION? DO YOU WANT TO
KNOW THE MECHANISM BY WHICH THIS OCCURS, OR---
Q. I WANT TO KNOW HOW NUTRIENT ENRICHMENT IS
RESPONSIBLE FOR INCREASING---
A. OKAY.
Q. ---PEAT ACCRETION AND PHOSPHORUS
ACCUMULATION---
A. OKAY.
Q. ---AND IF YOU UNDERSTAND THAT TO BE THE MECHANISM,
THEN EXPLAIN THE MECHANISM.
MR. BURGESS: I OBJECT TO THE FORM
OF THE QUESTION. THE STATEMENT SAYS
CONTRIBUTED TO, NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR.
MS. PONZOLI: YOU MAY ANSWER. HE
DOESN'T REPRESENT YOU.
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 167
MR. BURGESS: I CAN OBJECT FOR THE
RECORD, THOUGH, CAN'T I?
MS. PONZOLI: I CAN'T STOP YOU.
MR. BURGESS: THAT'S RIGHT.
A. OKAY. I THINK THAT -- NOW, THIS IS MY OPINION AS
TO HOW I THINK THIS OCCURS -- THAT THE N AND P IN
THE WATER IS TAKEN UP BY THE PLANTS; THE PLANTS
GROW MORE; THEY DIE -- OR AS THEY SENESCENCE, THEY
DEPOSIT MORE PEAT, AND SO YOU SEE AN ENHANCEMENT
IN PEAT BUILDUP. AND, IN ADDITION, THE PLANTS ARE
TAKING UP MORE NUTRIENTS WHILE THEY'RE GROWING
MORE, SO YOU GET THIS PHOSPHORUS ENRICHED PEAT
ACCUMULATING OVER TIME. THAT'S WHAT I THINK IS
HOW THIS OCCURS.
Q. YOU GO ON TO SAY THAT "THE AFFECTED AREA" -- I
ASSUME WE'RE -- I THINK WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE
ENRICHED AREA OF 2A?
A. RIGHT.
Q. "HAS FUNCTIONED AS A PHOSPHORUS SINK PRIMARILY DUE
TO INCREASED ORGANIC PHOSPHORUS STORAGE." AND A
SINK, CAN YOU DEFINE THAT FOR ME, DR. CRAFT?
A. IT'S A SINK; JUST AN AREA WHERE MATERIAL
ACCUMULATES.
Q. AND DOESN'T MOVE ON, OR NOT?
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 168
A. WELL, YOU KNOW, A BATHTUB -- A SINK HAS A DRAIN IN
IT, SO---
Q. OKAY.
A. ---I MEAN, IT COULD OR IT COULD NOT.
Q. OKAY. IS THAT THE CONCEPT OF EQUILIBRIUM, IT
WILL, SORT OF -- LIKE SAND, IT WILL BUILD AND THEN
IT WILL KIND OF TUMBLE ALONG, AND BUILD AND TUMBLE
ALONG---
A. I DON'T REALLY---
Q. ---IS THAT AN ACCURATE ANALOGY?
A. ---I REALLY DON'T KNOW -- I DON'T FEEL QUALIFIED
OR HAVE ENOUGH GOOD INFORMATION TO SAY WHETHER
IT'S THERE FOR PERPETUITY, OR WHETHER IT MAY MOVE
ON OVER TIME. NOTHING LASTS FOREVER. WE ALL KNOW
THAT.
Q. I'VE HEARD THAT STATEMENT A FEW TIMES. IN THIS
CONCEPT OF THINGS NOT LASTING OR STAYING THERE,
THOUGH, IN THE DRAFT OF THE MANUSCRIPT -- AND I
KNOW IT'S A DRAFT, YOU KNOW, I UNDERSTAND THAT
CONCEPT---
A. OKAY.
Q. ---IN CRAFT NUMBER SIXTEEN, THOUGH, YOU TALK
ABOUT PHOSPHORUS ACCUMULATING IN THE ENRICHED
AREA IS PERMANENTLY SEQUESTERED IN THE PEAT
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 169
MATRIX, AND UNDER CURRENT CONDITIONS IS UNLIKELY
TO BE RELEASED BACK INTO THE WATER COLUMN AND
EXPORTED DOWNSTREAM. WHAT DOES THAT PERMANENTLY
MEAN?
A. MAY I LOOK AT THAT, PLEASE?
Q. OH, SURE. LET -- I THINK I HAVE A COPY; I CAN
GIVE YOU A COPY. AND I -- IT'S NOT A NUMBERED
PAGE, BUT IT'S ABOUT THAT FAR BACK.
A. OKAY.
Q. I HAVE ONLY A COUPLE OF MORE COPIES DOWN HERE.
I DON'T HAVE---
MR. McCAUGHAN: I HAVE ONE.
Q. ---SIXTEEN. I DON'T KNOW WHO NEEDS ONE.
A. CAN YOU GO TO, LIKE, A PREVIOUS PAGE AND SEE
WHAT -- WHAT'S THE HEADING ON---
Q. YEAH. IT'S PHOSPHORUS STORAGE EFFICIENCY IN 2A.
A. OKAY.
MR. McCAUGHAN: IT'S UNNUMBERED.
Q. IT'S UNNUMBERED, I'M SORRY. BUT IF YOU GO TO
PHOSPHORUS STORAGE EFFICIENCY IN 2A, IT'S THE NEXT
PAGE BACK---
A. OKAY.
Q. ---YOU'RE A LITTLE -- I MEAN, IT'S A LITTLE
FURTHER BACK.
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 170
MR. McCAUGHAN: OKAY. YOU'VE FOUND IT,
YEAH, OKAY.
A. WHAT I MEAN HERE -- AND THIS IS BASED, TO A GREAT
EXTENT, ON SOME OF THE WORK OF DR. QUALLS -- THAT
I CITE RIGHT ABOVE THERE IN THE PREVIOUS SENTENCE.
THAT HE HAS DONE SOME PHOSPHORUS FRACTIONATION
WORK. AND, AGAIN, HE'S THE -- YOU KNOW, HE KNOWS
A LOT MORE ABOUT THIS THAN ME, BUT HE FOUND THAT
OVER EIGHTY FIVE PERCENT -- I'LL READ IT RIGHT OUT
OF THE TEXT -- OF THE SOIL PEAT IN THE ENRICHED
AREA EXISTS AS REFRACTORY COMPOUNDS SUCH AS LOW
SOLUBILITY ORGANIC P IN CALCIUM PHOSPHATES AND
IRON AND ALUMINUM. AND WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT
PHOSPHORUS IN THE SOIL, THESE FORMS ARE GENERALLY
CONSIDERED TO BE VERY LOW SOLUBILITY. THEY ARE
NOT -- IF YOU TALK ABOUT SOMETHING THAT MAY BE
AD -- PHOSPHORUS THAT IS ADSORBED, IT HAS THE
POTENTIAL TO BE DESORBED UNDER THE RIGHT KIND OF
CONDITIONS.
Q. UH-HUH (YES).
A. BUT THESE SORTS OF COMPOUNDS HERE ARE ACTUALLY
TIED UP IN A CRYSTAL AND MATRIX, AT LEAST THE
CALCIUM, IRON AND ALUMINUM. THE ORGANIC P
COMPONENT WAS DIGESTIBLE ONLY IN HOT NITRIC
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 171
PERCHLORIC ACID, AND MEANING THAT, YOU KNOW, UNDER
JUST MOST NORMAL CONDITIONS, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO
BE ABLE TO PULL IT OUT INTO SOLUTION. SO, HERE,
PERMANENTLY REFERS -- AGAIN, WE ARE NOT TALKING
ABOUT FOREVER, BY ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION,
BUT JUST RELATIVE TO SOME OF THESE MORE LABILE
FORMS THAT MAY COME BACK IN THE SOLUTION, OR THAT
ARE AVAILABLE FOR PLANTS TO TAKE UP.
Q. OKAY. DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT PERMANENTLY MIGHT
MEAN IN TEMPORAL TERMS?
A. I THINK ON THE ORDER OF YEARS, PROBABLY. AND, YOU
KNOW, PERHAPS LONGER. I DON'T KNOW.
Q. OKAY. TWO TO FIVE YEARS, SOMETHING LIKE THAT?
A. MAYBE ONE TO TEN YEARS.
Q. OKAY.
A. BUT THIS ALSO ASSUMES THAT CONDITIONS DO NOT
CHANGE IN TERMS OF FLOODING AND FIRE AND THOSE
KIND OF THINGS.
Q. THIS IS ASSUMING THE NUTRIENT UN-MANAGEMENT, OR
NUTRIENT REGIME THAT PRESENTLY EXISTS CONTINUING
IN A SIMILAR WAY?
A. WELL, TO SOME EXTENT. I MEAN, IT'S HARD TO TALK
ABOUT A -- IF YOU HAD A CATASTROPHIC FIRE,
CERTAINLY SOME OF THAT PHOSPHORUS WOULD -- OR A
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 172
LOT OF THAT PHOSPHORUS COULD COME BACK OUT.
Q. OKAY. WELL, LET'S TAKE TWO SCENARIOS. LET'S SAY
YOU HAD, FOR SOME HORRIBLE REASON, INCREASING
PHOSPHORUS COMING IN. WOULD THAT AFFECT THIS
PERMANENTLY?
A. I DON'T THINK IT WOULD AFFECT WHAT HAS ALREADY
BEEN STORED HERE---
Q. RIGHT.
A. ---WHAT MIGHT OCCUR IS SINCE MORE IS COMING IN---
Q. RIGHT.
A. ---THEN MORE WILL PROBABLY COME OUT AT THE OTHER
END.
Q. OKAY.
A. SO, I DON'T THINK IT WOULD AFFECT THIS -- THE
MATERIAL THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN STORED, BUT THE
POTENTIAL EXISTS FOR THE PHOSPHORUS COMING IN,
THAT MAYBE LESS OF THAT MIGHT BE STORED. SINCE
YOU'RE---
Q. OKAY.
A. ---YOU START TALKING ABOUT EFFICIENCY AGAIN, OR
SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
Q. OKAY. IT WOULD TRAVEL FURTHER DOWNSTREAM TO BE
TAKEN UP?
A. YEAH, IT COULD BE.
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 173
Q. OKAY. WHAT IF YOU DECREASED THE PHOSPHORUS COMING
IN BY, LET'S SAY, THE STA'S?
A. AGAIN, I THINK THIS STUFF WOULD PROBABLY STAY
PRETTY MUCH WHERE IT IS. YOU WOULDN'T -- I DON'T
THINK THAT THAT WOULD REALLY CHANGE WHAT HAS
ALREADY BEEN STORED. I MEAN, THERE'S ALWAYS
POTENTIAL, I THINK, FOR A LITTLE BIT OF THIS
MATERIAL TO COME BACK INTO SOLUTION, BUT I THINK
THESE COMPOUNDS HERE THAT DR. QUALLS BROKE OUT,
THESE ARE REALLY PRETTY INSOLUBLE FORMS OF
PHOSPHORUS, AND THEY ARE NOT GOING TO BE RELEASED
READILY BACK INTO THE SYSTEM.
Q. AND YOU'RE THINKING THAT IT WOULD STAY THERE
SOMEWHERE IN THAT RANGE OF ONE TO TEN YEARS?
A. PERHAPS LONGER. I DON'T KNOW. THAT'S---
Q. AND YOU'D JUST MONITOR IT TO SEE IF IT BEGAN TO BE
RELEASED OR NOT?
A. I THINK MOST OF -- YOU COULD DO THAT. BUT MY
FEELING IS, THIS PEAT BUILDUP IS SOMETHING THAT
IF THE PLANTS CAN CONTINUE TO GROW AND TO TAKE
UP NUTRIENTS, THERE'S NO REASON WHY -- AT LEAST
IF YOU DON'T OVERLOAD THE SYSTEM WITH HIGHER
AMOUNTS OF NUTRIENTS -- THAT IT -- THAT STUFF --
IT CAN'T -- IT COULD CONTINUE TO KEEP TAKING
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 174
MATERIAL UP, AND CONTINUE TO STORE IT.
Q. OKAY. FURTHER DOWN ON THE PAGE, YOU INDICATE,
HOWEVER -- ARE YOU WITH ME -- SORT OF LIKE A
LITTLE PAST HALFWAY IN THAT PARAGRAPH?
A. I THINK SO.
Q. HOWEVER, OUR STUDY ON LONG-TERM PHOSPHORUS
ACCUMULATION IN WATER CONSERVATION AREA 2A
SUGGESTS THAT IN AREAS SUBSTANTIALLY LARGER THAN
THIRTEEN THOUSAND TWO HUNDRED HECTARES WOULD BE
NEEDED TO EFFECTIVELY AND PERMANENTLY REMOVE THE
PHOSPHORUS IN AGRICULTURAL DRAINAGE. SO, THAT
PERMANENTLY, AGAIN, IS A---
A. IT'S A -- IT COULD BE---
Q. ---RELATIVE TERM?
A. ---YEARS, IT COULD MAYBE EVEN BE DECADES. I JUST
DON'T THINK ANYBODY CAN SAY. I DON'T THINK
ANYBODY WOULD STICK THEIR NECK OUT AND SAY THAT IT
WILL BE THERE FOREVER.
Q. SURE. SURE. SO, WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS THAT
THERE ARE A LOT OF UNKNOWNS?
A. OH, CERTAINLY.
Q. OKAY. AND THESE UNKNOWNS CANNOT BE SORTED OUT, IS
THAT ACCURATE? I MEAN, THEY CAN BE SORTED OUT,
BUT THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE SORTED OUT IN ANY VERY
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 175
SHORT-TERM PERIOD?
A. I'M SORRY, COULD YOU REPEAT THE QUESTION? I'VE
GOT COMMUNI---
Q. YOU'RE GETTING NOTES LIKE I AM.
MS. PONZOLI: YOU'RE GETTING NOTES LIKE
I AM. I DON'T THINK THAT'S CRICKET, GUYS.
I THINK I'M ALLOWED TO GET NOTES; I DON'T
THINK YOU ARE.
WITNESS: AREN'T I ALLOWED TO GET
NOTES?
MS. PONZOLI: NO, NO, THIS IS A
ONE-SIDED GAME. THEY DIDN'T TELL YOU THAT?
WITNESS: I DON'T KNOW IF I CAN BELIEVE
YOU, TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH.
MS. PONZOLI: WELL, I THINK RALPH WILL
TELL YOU, IT'S A ONE-SIDED GAME.
WITNESS: I'M GOING TO GET YOU GUYS ON
MY PLAYING FIELD SOME DAY.
MR. McCAUGHAN: LET'S HAVE A -- IF WE
CAN TAKE A BREAK, THEN, I WANT TO TALK TO
HIM.
MS. PONZOLI: DO YOU NEED TO TAKE A
BREAK?
MR. McCAUGHAN: YEAH.
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 176
WITNESS: I'D LIKE TO TAKE A BREAK,
PLEASE.
MR. McCAUGHAN: YEAH.
MS. PONZOLI: ALL RIGHT.
MR. McCAUGHAN: CAN WE GO OFF THE
RECORD?
MS. PONZOLI: ALL RIGHT. BUT I WOULD
LIKE THE CANDOR OF MY WITNESS TO CONTINUE---
MR. McCAUGHAN: YEAH, SURE---
MS. PONZOLI: ---FOLLOWING THE BREAK.
MR. McCAUGHAN: ---NO, NO, I'LL JUST --
OKAY.
(THEREUPON, THERE WAS AN
OFF-THE-RECORD DISCUSSION
WHICH WAS NOT REPORTED
BY THE COURT REPORTER, AND
A SHORT BREAK WAS TAKEN.)
EXAMINATION BY MS. PONZOLI CONTINUES:
Q. OKAY. YOUR FINAL SENTENCE IN THE ABSTRACT,
DR. CRAFT, IS THAT THE EFFECTS OF NUTRIENT
LOADING, ESPECIALLY PHOSPHORUS, ON A LONG-TERM
STABILITY OF THE EVERGLADES ECOSYSTEM, AND ON
THE LONG-TERM PHOSPHORUS STORAGE POTENTIAL OF
EVERGLADES PEATS ARE POORLY UNDERSTOOD, AND ARE
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 177
CURRENTLY UNDER INVESTIGATION. LET'S BREAK THAT
OUT INTO TWO PARTS -- OF THE LONG-TERM STABILITY
AND THE LONG-TERM PHOSPHORUS STORAGE. WHAT DO YOU
MEAN BY LONG-TERM STABILITY?
A. THESE CHANGES IN THE COMMUNITIES---
Q. OKAY. OKAY.
A. ---ARE WHAT I'M REFERRING TO.
Q. OKAY. THE COMMUNITY CHANGES, YOU SAY, ARE POORLY
UNDERSTOOD. ALL RIGHT. WHAT IS THE INVESTIGATION
THAT'S LOOKING AT COMMUNITY CHANGES?
A. YOU MEAN IN THE CONTEXT OF THE DUKE WETLAND
CENTER, OR JUST---
Q. YES, SIR.
A. WELL, THE FERTILIZER STUDY, AND THE DOSING STUDY,
AND DR. RADER'S WORK IN CONSERVATION AREA 2A.
Q. OKAY. IS THE DOSING STUDY DESIGNED TO SORT OUT
THE COMMUNITY CHANGES OCCURRING AS A RESULT OF
NUTRIENT LOADING?
A. I'M REALLY NOT -- I'M NOT INVOLVED IN THE DOSING
STUDY, SO I'M NOT QUITE SURE I KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT
IT TO BE ABLE TO ANSWER THOSE -- THE QUESTIONS
RELATING TO THAT. I MEAN, MY UNDERSTANDING IS,
IT'S RELATING -- TRYING TO DETERMINE AT WHAT
CONCENTRATION OF PHOSPHORUS IN THE WATER COLUMN
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 178
YOU START TO SEE CHANGES -- OR THESE CHANGES
OCCUR.
Q. CHANGES IN THE MICROBIAL COMMUNITIES, THE
PERIPHYTON COMMUNITIES, AND THE MACROPHYTE
COMMUNITIES---
A. RIGHT.
Q. ---IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE REFERRING?
A. RIGHT. AND THE SOIL.
Q. OKAY. DID YOU HELP DESIGN THE DOSING STUDY?
A. NO. I REALLY HAVEN'T BEEN INVOLVED IN IT.
Q. WILL YOU BE DOING ANY DATA COLLECTION AT THE
DOSING STUDY?
A. I KIND OF HOPE NOT. I DON'T THINK SO. AT THIS
POINT, I WON'T BE. NO. I'M IN CHARGE OF THE
FERTILIZER STUDY, AND THAT KEEPS ME SUFFICIENTLY
BUSY.
Q. OKAY. HOW WOULD YOU, PERSONALLY, SET UP A DOSING
STUDY TO SEE WHAT PHOSPHORUS DOES FOR COMMUNITY
CHANGES?
A. WELL, NOT KNOWING A WHOLE LOT ABOUT IT, I THINK
THE DESIGN AS SET UP BY CURT AND DR. QUALLS AND
THE PEOPLE INVOLVED IS A GOOD WAY TO APPROACH IT.
Q. SO, YOU REALLY DON'T WANT TO STEP INTO THAT
EVERGLADES PEAT TO DESIGN A DOSING STUDY OF YOUR
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 179
OWN?
A. I JUST -- YEAH, I JUST DON'T KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT IT.
I HAVE NOT BEEN INTIMATELY INVOLVED WITH THAT, SO.
Q. OKAY. IS THERE ANY PARTICULAR REASON YOU WEREN'T
INVOLVED WITH THAT PROJECT?
A. YEAH, I HAVE ENOUGH STUFF GOING ON WITHOUT GETTING
INVOLVED IN THE DOSING STUDY.
Q. ALL RIGHT. WELL, LET ME ASK YOU, THEN, JUST SO
I'M CLEAR, EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE PRESENTLY WORKING
ON. TELL ME THE PROJECTS THAT YOU ARE CURRENTLY
DOING.
A. THE PEAT ACCRETION AND NUTRIENT ACCUMULATION ON
THE GRADIENT.
Q. YOU'RE CONTINUING TO COLLECT DATA?
A. WELL, YEAH, SOME. MAINLY MORE DO THE LABORATORY
ANALYSIS AND WRITE IT UP, THAT SORT OF
INFORMATION. AND THE FERTILIZER STUDY. AND I
HAVE BEEN INVOLVED ON THE GRADIENT STUDY SOME,
LOOKING AT THE CHANGES IN THE PLANT COMMUNITIES
ALONG THE TRANSECT.
Q. OKAY. LET ME ASK YOU THIS, IN REGARD TO THE
FERTILIZER STUDY, WHERE IN THAT STUDY ARE YOU?
I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY -- IT'S BEEN GOING ON SINCE,
WHEN? TELL ME, AGAIN. I'VE BEEN TOLD AT SOME
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 180
POINT, BUT I CAN'T REMEMBER.
A. IT WAS SET UP DURING THE SUMMER OF 1990.
Q. SUMMER OF '90?
A. UH-HUH (YES).
Q. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. AND IT HAS ONGOING DATA
COLLECTIONS?
A. YES.
Q. I MEAN, AS INTENSELY AS IT EVER DID?
A. NO. IT'S -- WE'RE NOT COLLECTING AS MUCH AS WE
DID THE FIRST TWO YEARS.
Q. ALL RIGHT. ARE YOU CONTINUING TO ANALYZE THE DATA
THAT YOU ARE CONTINUING TO PULL, THOUGH?
A. CERTAINLY. UH-HUH (YES).
Q. ALL RIGHT. ARE YOU CHANGING ANY OF YOUR
CONCLUSIONS, OR WHATEVER -- WELL, CONCLUSIONS IS
THE BEST WORD. ARE YOU MODIFYING OR CHANGING YOUR
CONCLUSIONS AS A RESULT OF ONGOING DATA
COLLECTION?
A. WELL, WHEN I GET THIS SECOND YEAR'S WORTH OF DATA
PULLED TOGETHER, DEPENDING ON WHAT THE RESULTS
ARE, YEAH, I'M SURE THAT THE CONCLUSIONS -- SINCE
IT'S AN ONGOING STUDY, THE CONCLUSIONS WILL ALSO
BE AN ONGOING SORT OF THING.
Q. ALL RIGHT. CAN YOU JUST BRIEFLY TELL ME, DO YOU
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 181
SEE YOUR CONCLUSIONS EVOLVING IN A CERTAIN
DIRECTION? ARE YOU SORT OF ANTICIPATING THAT THE
DATA IS GOING TO SHOW CERTAIN THINGS?
A. YEAH, I THINK AFTER THE SECOND YEAR OF DATA -- AND
THIS HAS NOT -- THIS HAS NOT BEEN QUANTITATIVELY
ANALYZED---
Q. I UNDERSTAND.
A. ---I WANT TO MAKE THAT CLEAR---
Q. I UNDERSTAND.
A. ---IS I THINK AFTER TWO YEARS WE SEE AN INCREASE
IN NET PRIMARY PRODUCTION OF SOME OF THE
MACROPHYTES IN THE PLOTS.
Q. AND? ANYTHING ELSE?
A. AT THIS POINT, THAT'S ALL I CAN SAY, BECAUSE I
REALLY DON'T HAVE THE -- I DON'T HAVE ANY
INFORMATION RELATING TO OTHER THINGS.
Q. IS THAT AT ALL PLOTS, OR ONLY ON A SCALE OR
INCREASE?
A. IT'S HARD TO SAY. I THINK IN PURE SAWGRASS STANDS
WE'RE SEEING A GROWTH RESPONSE BY SAWGRASS. IN
PLOTS CONTAINING SAWGRASS AND CATTAIL, I JUST
DON'T KNOW YET. AND IN THE SLOUGH COMMUNITY, IT'S
HARD TO TELL, TOO.
Q. YOU'RE NOT SURE WHAT THE SLOUGH COMMUNITY IS
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 182
SHOWING?
A. NO. IT'S JUST HARD TO TELL WITHOUT, YOU KNOW,
REALLY HAVING THE NUMBERS CRUNCHED. I JUST DON'T
FEEL COMFORTABLE. YOU KNOW, I MIGHT SEE SOMETHING
AND THINK I'M SEEING A RESPONSE. AND THEN WHEN
YOU START LOOKING AT THE DATA, YOU FIND THAT THERE
IS NO RESPONSE.
Q. OKAY. I UNDERSTAND. I UNDERSTAND. I UNDERSTAND
THE TENTATIVE NATURE OF YOUR ANSWERS. IF THE --
IF IN THE FERTILIZER STUDY YOU'RE SEEING SAWGRASS
RESPOND, DOES THIS MEAN YOU'RE SEEING SAWGRASS
GROW MORE VIGOROUSLY AS A RESULT OF THE NUTRIENT
ADDITIONS?
A. YES. MORE -- MORE ABOVEGROUND GROWTH.
Q. OKAY. IF HIGHER NET PRIMARY PRODUCTIVITY -- IF
YOU HAVE HIGHER NET PRIMARY PRODUCTIVITY, WOULD
YOU EXPECT A HIGHER ACCRETION RATE OVER THE
LONG-TERM?
A. I THINK BASED ON THE DATA SO FAR, IT WOULD BE
PLAUSIBLE TO SAY THAT A HIGHER INCREASE IN
PRODUCTIVITY WILL TRANSLATE INTO AN INCREASE IN
PEAT ACCRETION. BUT, AGAIN, THAT'S SOMETHING
WHERE YOU'D REALLY NEED TO INVESTIGATE IT MORE
IN-DEPTH.
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 183
Q. DO YOU THINK THAT HIGHER NUTRIENT ADDITION IS
GOING TO LEAD TO HIGHER DECOMPOSITION RATES?
A. I THINK IT DOES LEAD TO HIGHER DECOMPOSITION
RATES, BUT I THINK THE DATA WE'VE COLLECTED SO FAR
INDICATES THAT THE INCREASE IN PRODUCTIVITY
OUTWEIGHS THE INCREASE IN DECOMPOSITION.
Q. DO YOU HAVE ANY RATIO THAT YOU'VE BEEN ABLE TO
QUANTIFY?
A. I HAVEN'T DONE ANY DECOMPOSITION WORK---
Q. OKAY.
A. ---SO, I CAN'T REALLY SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THAT.
Q. WHO'S DOING THE DECOMPOSITION WORK?
A. I'M NOT SURE IF ANYBODY IS RIGHT NOW -- AT LEAST
IN TERMS IN THE WORK THAT I'M INVOLVED IN.
Q. OKAY. ISN'T THAT AN IMPORTANT PART OF THE RATIO,
THOUGH?
A. OH, I THINK IT'S SOMETHING TO ADDRESS. AND I
THINK IN THE DOSING STUDY, THERE'S BEEN TALK OF
SOME OF THOSE PEOPLE ACTUALLY PUTTING SOME
DECOMPOSITION BAGS INTO THE CHANNELS. BUT, AGAIN,
I'M NOT REALLY INVOLVED WITH THAT STUDY, SO.
Q. SO, YOU'RE DOING THE FERTILIZER STUDY, YOU'RE
CONTINUE TO PULL WORK THERE. WHAT ARE YOU DOING
ON THE PEAT ACCRETION AND THE NUTRIENT
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 184
ACCUMULATION? WHAT ARE YOU DOING WITH THAT?
A. MAINLY WORKING UP CORES, TRYING TO WRITE THIS
MANUSCRIPT HERE. THIS IS THE MAIN THING.
Q. NUMBER SIXTEEN? IT'S THIS ONE THAT'S IN DRAFT?
A. RIGHT.
Q. OKAY.
A. AND WE HAVE SOME DATA ON METAL CONCENTRATIONS IN
THESE SOILS THAT I WOULD LIKE TO TRY TO WRITE UP,
TOO.
Q. WHAT DATA DO YOU HAVE ON METAL CONCENTRATIONS?
A. WE HAVE BASE CATIONS, CALCIUM, SODIUM, MAGNESIUM,
POTASSIUM, AND WE HAVE IRON, ALUMINUM AND
MANGANESE.
Q. ARE YOU DOING ANY TRACE METAL WORK?
A. I'M NOT DOING ANY TRACE METAL WORK, NO.
Q. OKAY. ARE YOU AWARE OF ANYONE DOING TRACE METALS
WORK?
A. NO. I MEAN, NOT -- I'M NOT AWARE OF ANYBODY.
Q. OKAY. SPECIFICALLY ANY MERCURY WORK, ARE YOU
AWARE OF?
A. NO.
Q. HAVE YOU EVER READ ANY REPORTS OF MERCURY STUDIES
IN THE EVERGLADES?
A. SURE. I'VE SEEN DR. JONES' -- I THINK PROPOSAL TO
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 185
EPA, OR PRE-PROPOSAL RELATING TO MERCURY, SO.
Q. OKAY. HOW DID YOU GET THAT?
A. I THINK DR. RICHARDSON PASSED A COPY ON TO ME.
Q. DO YOU KNOW HOW HE GOT IT?
A. NO. YOU CAN ASK HIM IN A MONTH OR TWO.
Q. I WILL. WHAT DID YOU THINK OF IT?
A. I THINK IT'S INTERESTING, AND I THINK IT'D BE AN
INTERESTING PROJECT TO BE INVOLVED IN.
Q. ANY SCIENTIFIC EVALUATION BEYOND JUST SORT OF IT'S
AN INTERESTING ISSUE?
A. NO. I MEAN, IT WAS A, I THINK, A PRE-PROPOSAL, SO
IT WASN'T AN INCREDIBLE AMOUNT OF DETAIL, SO.
Q. ALL RIGHT. SO, WE SAID THAT THE LONG-TERM
STABILITY, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT COMMUNITY CHANGES
IN THE EVERGLADES SYSTEM. AND THEN WE TALKED
ABOUT LONG-TERM PHOSPHORUS STORAGE. WHERE IS
LONG-TERM PHOSPHORUS STORAGE CURRENTLY UNDER
INVESTIGATION?
A. THE -- NUMBER SIXTEEN IS RELATING TO THIS
PHOSPHORUS STORAGE.
Q. OKAY. I DIDN'T QUITE UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE DOING
ON PEAT ACCRETION AND NUTRIENT ACCUMULATION.
WHERE ARE YOU PULLING DATA? ARE YOU CONTINUING TO
PULL IT ALONG THE GRADIENT?
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 186
A. WE'RE NOT COLLECTING ANY SAMPLES RIGHT NOW. BUT,
AGAIN, I WANT TO EMPHASIZE FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO
DON'T REALLY WORK IN THE LAB, IS THAT YOU CAN GO
COLLECT A WEEK'S WORTH OF DATA, OF SAMPLES, AND
THEN SPEND A YEAR ANALYZING IT. SO, I MEAN, IT'S
A VERY -- IT'S A LONG-TERM SORT OF PROJECT---
Q. WE DON'T WORK---
A. ---IT'S EASY TO GO OUT AND COLLECT TWENTY SOIL
CORES. I MEAN, THE HARD PART IS SPENDING THE SIX
MONTHS OR EIGHT MONTHS DOING THE CESIUM WORK,
MEASURING PHOSPHORUS CONTENT, MEASURING ALL THESE
OTHER ELEMENTS THAT WE LOOK AT SOMETIMES.
Q. AND TRYING TO MAKE SENSE OUT OF WHAT YOU FOUND?
A. RIGHT. AND THEN -- YEAH -- AND THEN TRYING TO
INTERPRET IT.
Q. EVEN THOUGH WE DON'T WORK IN LABS, WE DO WORK.
A. NO, I UNDERSTAND THAT. BUT I'M JUST TRYING TO
GIVE YOU AN IDEA OF IT'S NOT LIKE WHERE YOU
COLLECT THE CORES, AND THEN A MONTH LATER YOU'VE
GOT IT ALL INTERPRETED---
Q. I UNDERSTAND.
A. ---I MEAN, IT TAKES A LOT. I THINK DR. JONES AND
MARK PROBABLY UNDERSTAND WHAT'S INVOLVED WITH
THAT.
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 187
Q. ALL RIGHT. SO, WHAT YOU'RE BASICALLY WORKING ON,
PEAT ACCRETION AND NUTRIENT ACCUMULATION. YOU
HAVE DATA THAT YOU ARE CONTINUING TO ANALYZE AND
SYNTHESIZE, AND YOU'RE CONTINUING TO TRY AND MAKE
SENSE OUT OF WHAT THOSE PATTERNS ARE TELLING YOU,
IS THAT ACCURATE?
A. WELL, TRYING TO INTERPRET IT, AND THEN WRITE IT
UP.
Q. ALL RIGHT. AT WHAT PHASE IS CRAFT EXHIBIT NUMBER
SIXTEEN? DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THIS IS A FAIRLY
GOOD OUTLINE OF WHAT YOUR PAPER WILL EVENTUALLY
LOOK LIKE?
A. YEAH, IT'S FAIRLY GOOD, I THINK.
Q. OKAY. HOW SOON DO YOU BELIEVE THAT YOU WILL BE
SUBMITTING CRAFT NUMBER SIXTEEN TO A PUBLISHER FOR
PUBLICATION?
A. WELL, I'LL TELL YOU, IF I HADN'T BEEN MESSING WITH
THIS FOR THE PAST MONTH, I WOULD HAVE HOPED TO
HAVE HAD IT SENT OUT BY NOW, BUT I THINK IT'S
GOING TO BE MORE LIKE THE FIRST -- PROBABLY
JANUARY SOMETIME.
Q. ALL RIGHT. SO, IT ONLY HAS A FEW MORE INTERNAL
ITERATIONS TO GO THROUGH BEFORE YOU WILL SUBMIT
IT?
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 188
A. I HOPE SO, YES.
Q. ALL RIGHT. LET ME ASK YOU SOMETHING. IN BOTH OF
THESE PAPERS, I BELIEVE THEY'RE BOTH CO-AUTHORED
BY DR. RICHARDSON, IS THAT RIGHT?
A. YES.
Q. DO YOU DO THE FIRST CUT ON THE WRITING?
A. GENERALLY, THE NAME OF THE PERSON WHO APPEARS
FIRST IS THE ONE WHO DOES THE WRITING, AND THIS IS
NO DIFFERENT---
Q. OKAY.
A. ---SO, YES.
Q. THAT'S TRUE THROUGH MOST SCIENTIFIC PUBLICATIONS.
A. RIGHT. RIGHT.
Q. ALL RIGHT. AND THEN THE SECOND, THIRD, OR FOURTH
CO-AUTHORS WILL READ AND EDIT, AND---
A. RIGHT.
Q. OKAY. ARE THERE ANY PORTIONS IN EXAMPLE -- FOR
CRAFT NUMBER FIVE THAT ARE UNIQUELY OR
PARTICULARLY DR. RICHARDSON'S?
A. I DON'T KNOW. I MEAN, IT'S BEEN SO LONG SINCE I
REALLY LOOKED AT THIS THING IN-DEPTH. IT'S PRETTY
MUCH MY WRITING, BUT, OF COURSE, HE HAS INPUT INTO
IT.
Q. OKAY.
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 189
A. HE DID NOT WRITE WHOLE SECTIONS OF IT, THOUGH, OR
ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
Q. ALL RIGHT. IF WE WERE TO MOVE, LET'S SAY, TO THE
CONCLUSIONS, DO WE FIND ANY SENTENCES OR
PARAGRAPHS THAT ARE PRINCIPALLY AUTHORED BY ANYONE
OTHER THAN YOURSELF?
A. I'M WORKING MY WAY TO THE BACK OF THE PAPER HERE.
Q. IT'S ON PAGE 23.
A. IT'S ALL PRETTY MUCH WRITTEN BY MYSELF. BUT, OF
COURSE, AS A CO-AUTHOR, HE HAS A LOT OF INPUT
INTO, LIKE, YOU KNOW, WHAT THE CONCLUSIONS ARE,
AND SO, YOU KNOW, HE CONTRIBUTED, YOU KNOW, QUITE
A -- SOME TO THE LAST PARAGRAPH. I MEAN---
Q. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THE LAST---
A. ---HE DID NOT WRITE THAT EXCLUSIVELY, THOUGH.
Q. OKAY. THE LAST ONE THAT SAYS, "THESE FINDINGS
SUGGEST," THIS PARAGRAPH WAS CONTRIBUTED TO
SIGNIFICANTLY BY DR. RICHARDSON?
A. WELL, I'D SAY WE PROBABLY SHARED, YOU KNOW --
WELL, WE SHARED IN THE WHOLE MANUSCRIPT. BUT, YOU
KNOW, THE CONCLUSIONS AND THE ABSTRACT ARE THE
MOST IMPORTANT PARTS, AND SO THEY, AS YOU WELL
KNOW, RECEIVED THE GREATEST SCRUTINY. SO, I'M
SURE IN HIS CASE, HE LOOKED AT THE CONCLUSIONS AS
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 190
PRETTY CLOSELY TO MAKE SURE THAT THE CONCLUSIONS
WERE SUPPORTED BY THE DATA IN THE TEXT.
Q. OKAY. SO, IF I'M UNDERSTANDING YOU CORRECTLY,
THIS FINAL PARAGRAPH IN THE CONCLUSION WAS
CONTRIBUTED TO SIGNIFICANTLY BY DR. RICHARDSON, IS
THAT ACCURATE?
A. SURE.
Q. OKAY. THEN THAT MATCHES, TO SOME EXTENT, THE
FINAL SENTENCES IN THE ABSTRACT, DOES IT NOT?
A. PROBABLY. I MEAN, GENERALLY CONCLUSIONS AND
ABSTRACTS SHOULD SAY VERY SIMILAR---
Q. THEY SHOULD MIRROR EACH OTHER PRETTY WELL, CAUSE
THEY SEEM TO BE TALKING ABOUT LONG-TERM STABILITY
AND EFFICIENCY AND LONG-TERM STORAGE.
A. UH-HUH (YES).
Q. OKAY. WHERE ARE YOU SENDING -- FLIPPING BACK
AGAIN TO THE NEW MANUSCRIPT ON WHICH YOU'RE
WORKING, CRAFT NUMBER SIXTEEN, WHERE DO YOU INTEND
TO SUBMIT IT?
A. WELL, WE'RE THINKING ABOUT SENDING IT TO
BIOGEOCHEMISTRY.
Q. OKAY. JUST SO I'M CLEAR, YOU SAID YOU WERE DOING
GRADIENT STUDY WORK, ALSO, IS THAT ACCURATE?
A. WELL, YES. AND THAT'S IN THE CONTEXT OF NUMBER
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 191
SIXTEEN---
Q. OKAY.
A. ---THOSE SAMPLES WERE COLLECTED ON THE GRADIENT.
Q. OKAY. SO, IT'S REALLY -- SO, YOUR PEAT ACCRETION
AND NUTRIENT ACCUMULATION IS REALLY SORT OF YOUR
GRADIENT STUDY WORK?
A. RIGHT.
Q. ARE YOU DOING ANY MORE VEGETATION ANALYSIS
PRESENTLY?
A. WE DID SOME WORK ON THE GRADIENT, AGAIN, AT THE
SAME EIGHTEEN POINTS.
Q. RIGHT.
A. AND WE'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING CURRENTLY RIGHT NOW.
Q. ARE YOU GOING TO DO A MANUSCRIPT ON THAT?
A. I REALLY DON'T THINK THAT I -- WE HAVE ENOUGH DATA
TO GET A MANUSCRIPT OUT OF IT, TO BE HONEST WITH
YOU. I DON'T THINK WE HAVE ENOUGH DATA TO WHERE
IT WOULD BE ACCEPTABLE -- IT WOULD BE ACCEPTED
ANYWHERE.
Q. WAS THERE EVER A DECISION MADE AS TO WHY YOU
DIDN'T PULL MORE VEGETATIVE DATA?
A. NO, NOT THAT I RECALL. I MEAN, WE MAY -- WE
SAMPLED -- WE HAVE A PERMANENT VEGETATION PLOT SET
UP, AND WE WILL PROBABLY GO BACK IN A YEAR AND A
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 192
HALF AND RE-SAMPLE IT. BUT AS THE DATA STANDS NOW
ON THE -- ON THE PLANTS IN THE GRADIENT, I JUST
DON'T THINK WE HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION TO GET IT
PUBLISHED.
Q. OKAY. I THINK I'LL JUST REFER TO THAT AT ANOTHER
TIME, THE PERMANENT VEGETATIVE PLOTS. I THINK YOU
TURNED OVER SOME DOCUMENTS REFLECTING---
A. UH-HUH (YES), YOU HAVE IT.
Q. ---THE DATA THAT YOU HAD PULLED AT THE VARIOUS
VEGETATION PLOTS, AND WHAT WAS GOING ON THERE.
I'LL JUST TALK TO YOU ABOUT THAT, AND WE CAN
CONTINUE THROUGH CRAFT EXHIBIT NUMBER FIVE.
A. OKAY.
Q. WHERE YOU HAVE STATEMENTS BY OTHER SCIENTISTS,
KUSHLAN, FOR EXAMPLE, OR DAVIS, OR THE SOUTH
FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT, THESE ARE SORT
OF REVIEW TYPE STATEMENTS, ARE THEY NOT? IS THAT
AN ACCURATE WAY---
A. RIGHT.
Q. ---OF REFERRING TO THEM?
A. RIGHT. THEY SET THE STAGE FOR THE STORY.
Q. DOES IT MEAN -- UNLESS YOU SAY PRETTY CLEARLY TO
THE OPPOSITE, THAT YOU BASICALLY CONCUR WITH THAT
INFORMATION?
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 193
A. IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT I CONCUR. IT MEANS THAT JUST
THIS IS THE PREVIOUS WORK THAT HAS BEEN DONE IN
THE EVERGLADES, AND SO IT SORT OF SETS THE STAGE
FOR HOW THIS WORK RELATES INTO THE CONTEXT. I
MEAN, A LOT OF THESE, YOU JUST HAVE TO TAKE THEM
AT FACE VALUE, BECAUSE I -- UNLESS YOU'VE BEEN
DOWN AND SEEN THE WORK THAT THEY'VE DONE. BUT
YOU -- I FEEL LIKE IF IT'S BEEN PUBLISHED IN THE
LITERATURE, AND THE SCIENTIFIC IS -- YOU KNOW, IT
HAS MERIT TO IT, THOUGH. YEAH.
Q. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. SO, UNLESS YOU SAY OUR DATA
FOUND SOMETHING DIFFERENT, THERE'S SOME
IMPLICATION THAT YOU BELIEVE IT'S A VALID
STATEMENT---
A. OKAY.
Q. ---IS THAT FAIR?
A. YES.
Q. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. YOU'VE GOT A STATEMENT HERE,
HISTORICALLY THE EVERGLADES RECEIVE WATER AND
NUTRIENTS FROM RAINFALL. DO YOU HAVE A FIGURE IN
YOUR MIND AS TO WHAT RAINFALL IN THE EVERGLADES --
WHAT IS THE PHOSPHORUS CONTENT OF RAINFALL?
A. I'VE SEEN THE DATA, OR SOME OF THE DATA, AND I CAN
THROW A BALLPARK NUMBER OUT. IT SEEMED LIKE IT
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 194
WAS .06 PARTS PER MILLION. BUT, AGAIN, THIS IS
RIGHT OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, AND I'D FEEL MORE
CONFIDENT IF I WENT BACK TO THE LITERATURE AND
PULLED IT OUT.
Q. SURE. AND WHAT LITERATURE WOULD YOU GO TO FOR
THAT?
A. I'D HAVE TO SEE WHAT I CITED HERE. EXACTLY WHERE
ARE YOU REFERRING TO THIS?
Q. YOU CITE DAVIS, SWIFT AND NICHOLS. IT'S THE
SECOND REAL PARAGRAPH, BELANGER, ET AL.
A. I THINK BELANGER MAY HAVE SOME INFORMATION ON
THAT. AND, OF COURSE, THE SOUTH FLORIDA WATER
MANAGEMENT DISTRICT HAS INFORMATION ON RAINFALL
INPUTS.
Q. OKAY. DID YOU SAY PARTS PER MILLION OR PARTS PER
BILLION?
A. I THINK IT'S PARTS -- .06 PARTS PER MILLION. BUT,
AGAIN, I'M NOT -- AGAIN, THIS IS JUST OFF THE TOP
OF MY HEAD.
Q. OKAY. AND THEN YOU IMPLY THAT -- AT THE END OF
THAT -- THAT THE LOW PHOSPHORUS CONCENTRATION IN
EVERGLADES SOILS AND SURFACE WATERS AND LOW
PHOSPHORUS REQUIREMENTS OF SAWGRASS SUGGESTS THAT
PHOSPHORUS IN PARTICULAR IS LIMITING IN THIS
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 195
ECOSYSTEM. DO YOU HAVE ANY DATA THAT WOULD IMPLY
OTHERWISE?
A. NO, I DON'T HAVE ANY DATA THAT IMPLIES OTHERWISE.
Q. OKAY. HOW DOES AN ECOSYSTEM REACT IF THE LIMIT IS
REMOVED?
A. CAN YOU REPHRASE THE QUESTION?
Q. OKAY. IF YOU WERE TO ADD PHOSPHORUS TO THE
SYSTEM, HOW WILL THE SYSTEM REACT?
A. IT WOULD PROBABLY RESPOND BY ENHANCEMENT OF
GROWTH, SINCE THAT'S SORT OF LIMITING THE
PRODUCTION. AN ADDITION WOULD BE LIKE A -- WELL,
LIKE A SUBSIDY.
Q. OKAY. OKAY. ON PAGE 4, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT
DURING THE LAST NINETY YEARS, A SERIES OF DIKES
AND CANALS WERE CONSTRUCTED TO PROVIDE WATER. IS
THAT ACTUALLY YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF WHY THEY WERE
CONSTRUCTED, DR. CRAFT, WAS TO PROVIDE WATER?
A. WELL, I JUST TOOK THAT OUT OF THE PAPER BY
DeGROVE.
Q. OKAY.
A. I THINK IT'S, ONE, TO PROVIDE WATER; AND ALSO TO
PROVIDE DRAIN -- TO, YOU KNOW, TO DRAIN AREAS,
TOO, FOR DEVELOPMENT.
Q. OKAY.
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 196
A. IN FACT, IN THE NEXT SENTENCE, I TALK ABOUT FLOOD
CONTROL AND WATER SUPPLY, SO.
Q. RIGHT. RIGHT. THAT'S THE MORE CLASSIC COMMENT
THAT WE WOULD NORMALLY SEE IN SOUTH FLORIDA,
ANYWAY.
YOU'RE STATING AT THE END OF THAT PARAGRAPH
THAT PEAT ACCRETION IS -- MAY BE -- LET ME ASK YOU
ABOUT THIS. YOU HAVE A LOT OF MAYS AND SUGGESTS,
IS THAT COMMON IN SCIENTIFIC---
A. IT'S THE NATURE OF SCIENCE.
Q. YOU'RE HEDGING YOUR BETS THERE A LITTLE?
A. WELL, SURE, YOU NEVER STEP OUT ON A LIMB IF YOU
DON'T HAVE TO, SO. THAT---
Q. OKAY. IT'S NOT JUST LAWYERS WHO---
A. NO, NO. READ ANY SCIENTIFIC PAPER. AND THEY
USUALLY MAKE YOU TAKE IT OUT IF YOU SAY
EMPHATICALLY THAT IT IS SOMETHING. THEY USUALLY
SAY YOU SHOULD -- BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WE -- THERE'S
NO CERTAINTY IN THE WORLD, EXCEPT, I GUESS, THAT
WE'RE GOING TO ALL DIE SOME DAY OR SOMETHING LIKE
THAT.
Q. THERE'S A MORBID TRAIN MOVING THROUGH THIS
MORNING. NOTHING LASTS FOREVER.
A. I'M A PRACTICAL PERSON, WHAT CAN I SAY.
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 197
(THEREUPON, THERE WAS AN
OFF-THE-RECORD DISCUSSION
WHICH WAS NOT REPORTED
BY THE COURT REPORTER.)
Q. (BY MS. PONZOLI) ALL RIGHT. NOW THAT I KNOW IT'S
FAIR TO HEDGE YOUR BETS SCIENTIFICALLY.
A. CERTAINLY.
MR. McCAUGHAN: COULD WE GO OFF
THE RECORD A SECOND?
MS. PONZOLI: YES.
(THEREUPON, THERE WAS AN
OFF-THE-RECORD DISCUSSION
WHICH WAS NOT REPORTED
BY THE COURT REPORTER, AND
A SHORT BREAK WAS TAKEN.)
EXAMINATION BY MS. PONZOLI CONTINUES:
Q. DR. CRAFT, CONTINUING TO MOVE THROUGH CRAFT
NUMBER FIVE, YOU TALK ABOUT ON PAGE 5, THAT PEAT
ACCRETION IS ONE PROCESS THAT IS ESPECIALLY
VULNERABLE TO CHANGES IN THE EVERGLADES HYDROLOGY
AND NUTRIENT REGIMES. AND YOU TALK ABOUT SHORTER
HYDROPERIODS WILL LEAD TO REDUCED ACCRETION RATES.
SO, YOU'RE SURE THAT THAT, IN FACT, OCCURS,
BECAUSE YOU DON'T SAY "MAY," YOU SAY "WILL," IS
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 198
THAT ACCURATE?
A. AGAIN, I MAYBE SHOULD CHANGE THE MANUSCRIPT TO SAY
"PROBABLY WILL." BUT, I MEAN, IT'S PRETTY
APPARENT THAT PEAT BUILDUP IS ENHANCED. IF YOU
DON'T HAVE WET CONDITIONS, YOU DON'T GET PEAT.
SO, THAT, YOU KNOW, IF YOU REDUCE THE HYDROPERIOD
TO SOME POINT, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET -- YOU'RE
GOING TO LOWER THE RATE OF PEAT ACCRETION.
Q. AND IN EXTREME CASES, IT RESULTS IN OXIDATION AND
SUBSIDENCE OF ORGANIC SOILS. HAVE YOU DONE ANY
QUANTIFICATION OF AT WHAT POINT THAT OCCURS?
A. NO, I HAVEN'T DONE ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
Q. OKAY. THEN YOU GO ON TO SAY THAT NUTRIENT
ENRICHMENT MAY INCREASE RATES OF PEAT ACCRETION,
THE CONCEPT THAT WE TALKED ABOUT SOME THIS
MORNING?
A. RIGHT.
Q. YOU STATE IN THE NEXT PARAGRAPH THAT THIS NUTRIENT
ENRICHMENTS EFFECTS ON PEAT ACCRETION IS A
PARTICULAR CONCERN SINCE THE WATER CONSERVATION
AREAS PRESENTLY ARE BEING USED TO REMOVE NITROGEN
AND PHOSPHORUS FROM AGRICULTURAL RUNOFF PRIOR TO
WATER RELEASES TO THE EVERGLADES NATIONAL PARK.
IS IT YOUR UNDERSTANDING THAT THIS IS BEING DONE
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 199
PURPOSEFULLY?
A. I THINK IT IS JUST AT THE TIME THE WCA'S WERE
ESTABLISHED, THERE WERE NO LAWS THEN REGULATING
DISCHARGES OR ANYTHING. I THINK IT'S MORE OF JUST
SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED IN THE PAST, AND ONLY NOW
AS REGULATIONS AND LAWS ARE BEING PUT INTO PLACE
THAT THESE SORTS OF POTENTIAL ENVIRONMENTAL
PROBLEMS ARE BEING LOOKED AT.
Q. BUT, IN FACT, IT IS YOUR UNDERSTANDING THAT IS
PRECISELY WHAT IS HAPPENING---
A. SURE.
Q. ---IS THAT ACCURATE?
A. SURE. SURE. IF THERE IS WATER -- YEAH --
NUTRIENT ENRICHED WATER GOING INTO THE
CONSERVATION AREAS.
Q. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. AND THEN I THINK ON THE LAST
CONCEPT OF LITTER DECOMPOSITION RESULTING IN
REDUCED RATES OF PEAT AND NUTRIENT ACCUMULATION,
THE ONLY NEW STUDY THAT YOU'RE AWARE OF IS THE
POSSIBILITY THAT THEY MAY BE PUTTING SOME
DECOMPOSITION -- WAS IT BAGS---
A. RIGHT.
Q. ---IN THE DOSING STUDY?
A. RIGHT.
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 200
Q. BUT YOU KNOW OF NO OTHER STUDIES?
A. NO, I'M NOT AWARE OF ANY.
Q. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THE NEXT PARAGRAPH SAYS THAT
YOU'RE RELATING THE RATES OF PEAT ACCRETION TO
DIFFERENT HYDROPERIODS AND TO DIFFERENT NUTRIENT
REGIMES. BUT THE DIFFERENT HYDROPERIODS, IF I
UNDERSTAND YOUR PAPER, ARE ONLY THOSE THAT YOU
EXPLAINED PREVIOUSLY, THE OVERDRAINED AND THE
EXTENDED HYDROPERIOD. IS THAT ACCURATE?
A. THAT'S RIGHT.
Q. OKAY. SO, YOU WERE ONLY ABLE TO SORT OUT -- NOT
TO BE UNFAIR -- BUT THE GROSSEST SORT OF
HYDROPERIOD DIFFERENCES?
A. OH, CERTAINLY. YEAH.
Q. OKAY. BUT THE NUTRIENT REGIMES, YOU REFINED MORE,
IS THAT ACCURATE?
A. YES, YOU HAVE A BETTER HANDLE ON IT -- OR WE HAVE
A BETTER HANDLE ON IT.
Q. OKAY. WE WANTED TO DETERMINE IF THE WATER
CONSERVATION AREAS COULD EFFECTIVELY FUNCTION AS A
LONG-TERM SINK FOR NITROGEN AND PHOSPHORUS. WHAT
DOES THAT MEAN?
A. WE JUST WANTED TO DETERMINE IF THEY ARE
FUNCTIONING.
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 201
Q. RIGHT.
A. I MEAN, IT'S BEEN SHOWN THAT -- WELL, OKAY, WE
KNOW WETLANDS CAN STORE MATERIALS---
Q. SURE.
A. ---WE WANTED TO DETERMINE IF WATER CONSERVATION
AREAS WERE EFFECTIVELY STORING N AND P, AND, IF
SO, HOW -- YOU KNOW, HOW LONG THEY'RE -- WHETHER
THEY'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO IT CONTINUOUSLY, OR
WHETHER THERE IS THIS PROBLEM THAT OVER TIME THERE
MAY BE SOME LEAKAGE AND IT MAY MOVE DOWNSTREAM.
SO, IT'S -- WE'RE JUST TRYING TO QUANTIFY, YOU
KNOW, HOW -- YOU KNOW, HOW EFFECTIVELY ARE THEY
STORING N AND P.
Q. AND SO THE CONCERN IS NOT FOR THE CHANGES IN THE
WATER CONSERVATION AREAS SO MUCH FOR THEMSELVES,
BUT FOR WHAT LIES BELOW THE WATER CONSERVATION
AREAS DOWNSTREAM?
A. NO, NO. NO, NOT ENTIRELY. BUT, I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY
THE CONCERN HAS BEEN THAT THERE'S -- PEOPLE ARE
CONCERNED THAT THE ENRICHMENT IS GOING TO
EVENTUALLY REACH THE PARK---
Q. RIGHT.
A. ---AND THIS IS JUST A WAY TO TRY TO ASSESS THIS
BIG AREA AND SEE, YOU KNOW, IS THIS SOMETHING
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 202
THAT'S CURRENTLY HAPPENING, IS IT LEAKING, OR
CAN IT EFFECTIVELY STORE IT FOR A FAIRLY LONG
TIME.
Q. OKAY. LET'S MOVE INTO YOUR METHODOLOGIES. YOU
CHOSE, YOU SAY, ONE ENRICHED SITE AND SIX
UNENRICHED LOCATIONS, AND THOSE ARE REFLECTED IN
FIGURE ONE, IS THAT RIGHT?
A. UH-HUH (YES).
Q. OKAY.
MR. GREEN: EXCUSE ME, COUNSEL---
MS. PONZOLI: YES.
MR. GREEN: ---DO YOU HAVE ANOTHER
COPY OF WHAT EVERYONE'S REFERRING TO?
MS. PONZOLI: I DON'T THINK SO.
MR. GREEN: I CAN LOOK ON OVER HERE,
THAT'S ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. SORRY TO
DISRUPT YOU.
Q. (BY MS. PONZOLI) ALL RIGHT. IN REGARD TO
CHOOSING YOUR LOCATIONS, DR. CRAFT, EXPLAIN TO ME
HOW YOU WENT ABOUT CHOOSING A SINGLE ENRICHED AND
THEN THE MULTIPLE UNENRICHED.
A. WELL, AT THE TIME WE TOOK THE SAMPLES, WE DIDN'T
REALLY KNOW WHETHER THEY WERE -- WHICH SITES WERE
ENRICHED AND WHICH WEREN'T. WE WANTED TO JUST GET
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 203
A HANDLE ON OVERALL RATES OF PEAT ACCRETION AND
NUTRIENT ACCUMULATION IN THE CONSERVATION AREAS.
BECAUSE AT THIS TIME NOBODY HAD REALLY DONE
ANYTHING LIKE THAT---
Q. UH-HUH (YES).
A. ---SO, I MEAN, WE KNEW THE AREA BELOW 2A WAS
ENRICHED. BUT WHEN WE TOOK SAMPLES IN 3A, WE
REALLY DIDN'T KNOW WHETHER THESE AREAS WERE GOING
TO BE ENRICHED OR NOT.
Q. TELL ME HOW YOU CHOSE YOUR SITES, PLEASE.
A. ACCESSIBILITY WAS A BIG FACTOR. OBVIOUSLY,
ALLIGATOR -- THE SITES NORTH OF ALLIGATOR ALLEY
WERE WITHIN A COUPLE OF HUNDRED METERS OF THE
ROAD, SO WE COULD WALK TO THEM.
THE LOCATIONS DOWN ON THE TAMIAMI TRAIL,
AGAIN, WE WERE ABLE TO GET INTO THE CANAL THERE
AND THEN WALK A COUPLE OF HUNDRED METERS NORTH AND
TAKE THOSE SAMPLES.
BUT WE ALSO WANTED TO FILL IN THE GAPS IN
SOME OF THE AREAS IN BETWEEN, SO WE USED A
HELICOPTER TO SAMPLE THE INTERIOR AREA HERE IN
3A.
AND, OF COURSE, THESE TWO AREAS, WE HAD TO
USE A HELICOPTER TO GET TO.
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 204
Q. YOU'RE REFERRING TO THE TWO AREAS IN 2A, THE
ENRICHED---
A. RIGHT.
Q. ---AND THE UNENRICHED SITES, YOU USED HELICOPTERS
TO GET TO BOTH OF THOSE?
A. YES.
Q. YOU COULDN'T WALK TO THE ENRICHED ONE---
A. NO.
Q. ---FROM THE TIN STRUCTURES?
A. HUH-UH (NO). I'D LIKE TO TALK TO SOMEBODY WHO HAS
DONE THAT.
Q. IS IT BECAUSE IT'S SUCH DENSE MACROPHYTES?
A. YEAH, AND PROBABLY THE SIXTEEN FOOT ALLIGATORS
MIGHT HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH IT, TOO, SO.
AND THE WATER IS PROBABLY, YOU KNOW, PRETTY DEEP,
SO.
Q. OKAY. DO YOU THINK THAT NUTRIENT ENRICHMENT IS
AFFECTING THE SIXTEEN FOOT ALLIGATORS?
A. NO. NO. AND I DON'T CARE TO ASK THEM TO FIND
OUT.
Q. OKAY. YOU'LL BE HAPPY TO KNOW MY PEOPLE HAVE HAD
ME WALKING AROUND IN THAT AREA.
A. THAT IS SORT OF GOOD NEWS TO HEAR.
Q. NOW THAT YOU'VE WARNED ME.
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 205
A. YEAH.
Q. ALL RIGHT. YOU CHOSE SITES THAT WERE ACCESSIBLE.
HOW DID YOU COME TO CHOSE FOUR SITES IN 3A VERSUS
TWO IN 2A?
A. WELL, IN TERMS OF THE SIZE OF THE CONSERVATION
AREAS, 3A IS MUCH LARGER, SO, YOU WOULD WANT TO
TAKE MORE SAMPLES IN IT THAN IN 2A. AGAIN, THIS
WAS JUST TO TRY TO GET A HANDLE ON WHAT'S GOING ON
OVER THE ENTIRE AREA. AT THE TIME WE TOOK THE
SAMPLES, WE DIDN'T KNOW A WHOLE LOT ABOUT
ENRICHMENT AND HYDROPERIOD.
Q. NOW THAT YOU KNOW MORE ABOUT ENRICHMENT AND
HYDROPERIOD, BECAUSE YOU'VE BEEN OUT THERE FOR,
WHAT, TWO AND A HALF YEARS?
A. THREE AND A HALF.
Q. THREE AND A HALF, WOULD YOU DESIGN A DIFFERENT
SAMPLING?
A. PROBABLY NOT.
Q. WHY NOT?
A. I THINK WE DID A -- YOU KNOW, AGAIN, IN TERMS OF
THE CONSTRAINTS OF TIME AND MONEY, I THINK WE DID
A PRETTY GOOD JOB, AND IN TERMS OF THE AREAS THAT
WE WERE ABLE TO SAMPLE. YOU KNOW, WE WERE LIMITED
TO CONSERVATION AREAS 2 AND 3 BECAUSE OF THE
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 206
LITIGATION.
Q. IF YOU HAD HYDROLOGY INFORMATION FOR SITES,
THOUGH, WOULDN'T THAT BE A USEFUL---
A. IT WOULD BE GREAT.
Q. ---PIECE OF THE PUZZLE?
A. IT WOULD BE GREAT INFORMATION.
Q. BUT THAT INFORMATION DOES EXIST FOR 2A, DOES IT
NOT?
A. JUST FOR THAT ONE LOCATION.
Q. WHAT, THE 217 GAUGE?
A. RIGHT. AND, OF COURSE, AT THE TIME I TOOK THE
SAMPLES, I WASN'T AWARE OF ANY OF THAT KIND OF
INFORMATION.
Q. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. YOU PULLED DIFFERENT CORES,
DR. CRAFT, FROM DIFFERENT LOCATIONS. I THINK YOU
PULLED TWO CORES FROM THE ENRICHED 2A, AND THEN
YOU PULLED THREE CORES FROM THE UNENRICHED 3A.
WHY THE DIFFERENT NUMBER OF CORES? I AM NOT A
SCIENTIST, BUT I FOUND THAT CONFUSING.
A. OKAY. WE TOOK THREE CORES FROM UNENRICHED 2A---
Q. RIGHT.
A. ---AND TWO CORES FROM ENRICHED 2A.
Q. UH-HUH (YES).
A. WHAT WE ORIGINALLY DID WAS WE HAD JUST TAKEN ONE
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 207
CORE FROM THE UNENRICHED PART OF 2A. AND, OF
COURSE, AT THE TIME WE TOOK THAT SAMPLE, WE DIDN'T
KNOW WHETHER IT WAS ENRICHED OR NOT. SO, WE WENT
BACK THE FOLLOWING YEAR REALIZING, YOU KNOW, ONE
CORE IS NOT GOING TO BE ENOUGH TO, YOU KNOW, TO
REALLY ASSESS THAT LOCATION, SO WE WENT BACK AND
TOOK TWO MORE CORES FROM THAT SAME AREA. SO,
THAT'S THE ONLY REASON.
Q. BUT YOU'RE COMPARING DIFFERENT NUMBERS OF CORES
FROM DIFFERENT SITES, IS THAT ACCURATE?
A. THREE AT ONE SITE, AND TWO AT ANOTHER SITE.
CERTAINLY.
Q. OKAY. DO YOU RECALL WHAT THE TOTAL PHOSPHORUS
NUMBERS WERE FOR THESE UNENRICHED INTERIOR SITES
IN 2A?
A. AGAIN, I THINK AT THE SURFACE, THEY WERE AROUND
THAT FIVE TO SIX HUNDRED MICROGRAMS PER GRAM.
AGAIN, THE DATA IS PROBABLY IN THE PAPER
SOMEWHERE.
Q. CAN YOU LOCATE IT FOR ME? ARE YOU ABLE TO LOOK
THROUGH THE DATA AND SHOW ME WHERE IT IS?
(THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.)
A. I'M LOOKING FOR IT. OKAY. WELL, YOU SEE HERE
ON -- WELL, IT DOESN'T HAVE A PAGE, BUT TABLE I.
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 208
Q. OKAY.
A. YOU SEE IT'S -- THE MEAN VALUE IS FOUR THIRTY-TWO,
PLUS OR MINUS FIFTY-FOUR.
Q. I THINK WE DID THIS BEFORE, BUT LET'S TRY AGAIN.
HOW DO YOU DEFINE ENRICHED AND UNENRICHED?
A. WELL, BASED ON THE MORE RECENT INFORMATION FROM
DEPOSITION EXHIBIT SIXTEEN, WHICH HAS A TOTAL OF
EIGHTEEN CORES---
Q. RIGHT.
A. ---COLLECTED FROM CONSERVATION AREA 2A, WE BASED
IT ON AROUND FIVE TO SIX HUNDRED MICROGRAMS PER
GRAM.
Q. BUT THAT GOES BACK, I GUESS, TO THE PRIOR QUESTION
I HAD HAD. HOW DID YOU KNOW YOU WERE AT AN
UNENRICHED SITE?
A. WE DIDN'T UNTIL WE COLLECTED THE SAMPLES AND DID
THE ANALYSIS; THAT'S THE WHOLE THING. YOU DON'T
KNOW UNTIL YOU -- AT LEAST BY OUR MEASURE OF TOTAL
PHOSPHORUS IN THE SOIL -- WE HAVE TO MEASURE THAT
BEFORE WE CAN MAKE A DETERMINATION.
Q. I'M NOT MAKING MYSELF CLEAR; I'LL TRY AGAIN LATER.
A. OKAY.
Q. YOU FOUND CATTAIL AT VIRTUALLY EVERY LOCATION THAT
YOU SAMPLED IN THIS STUDY, ALL SEVEN?
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 209
A. I THINK SO. YES, WE FOUND SOME CATTAIL AT -- AT
EVERY LOCATION, I THINK.
Q. OKAY. DID THAT TELL YOU ANYTHING?
A. IT TOLD ME THAT CATTAIL IS FOUND PRETTY MUCH
THROUGHOUT THE EVERGLADES, OR AT LEAST THE AREAS
THAT WE SAMPLED.
Q. OKAY. YOU WOULD PLACE NO INTERPRETATION OF
ENRICHMENT ON THE FACT THAT YOU WERE FINDING
CATTAIL AT THOSE LOCATIONS?
A. NO.
Q. NOW, HOW DO YOU KNOW?
A. BECAUSE THE SOILS DATA SUGGESTS THAT THESE AREAS
ARE NOT ENRICHED.
Q. OKAY. BUT THAT TAKES ME BACK TO MY QUESTION,
HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT'S AN UNENRICHED SOIL DATA
SAMPLE?
A. WELL, I DON'T KNOW. BUT ALL I KNOW IS THAT IF I
SAMPLE PLACES IN THE INTERIOR OF CONSERVATION AREA
3A -- WHERE THERE HAPPENS TO BE SOME CATTAIL --
THERE'S A HIGH PROBABILITY THAT THAT PART OF
CONSERVATION AREA 3A HAS NOT BEEN AFFECTED BY
ENRICHMENT YET.
Q. OKAY. HAVE YOU EVER SEEN DATA REFLECTING THE
CONCENTRATIONS IN, LET'S SAY, PRISTINE AREAS OF
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 210
THE REFUGE OR THE PARK?
A. YES, BUT I DON'T RECALL WHAT THE NUMBERS ARE.
I MEAN, I'VE SEEN THAT INFORMATION GIVEN AT
TALKS.
Q. ALLL RIGHT. WAS IT COMPARABLE TO YOUR BACKGROUND
DATA?
A. I'D HAVE TO GO BACK AND LOOK AT IT.
Q. DID -- AT THE TIME, DID IT STRIKE YOU THAT IT WAS
COMPARABLE OR NOT COMPARABLE?
A. I DON'T REMEMBER.
Q. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THEN I THINK WE GET INTO YOUR
CESIUM DATA. HOW ACCURATE IS CESIUM---
A. IT'S---
Q. ---DATA COLLECTION?
A. ---IT'S HARD TO SAY. IT DEPENDS ON THE COMMUNITY
OR THE ECOSYSTEM YOU'RE SAMPLING. IT SEEMS TO
WORK PRETTY WELL IN THE EVERGLADES.
Q. BUT HOW ACCURATE? I MEAN, CAN YOU GIVE ME AN
EXPLANATION, FOR A LAYMAN, AS TO HOW ACCURATE IT
IS?
A. WELL, IT HAS TO BE COMPARED WITH ANOTHER WAY OF
MEASURING ACCRETION, AND -- WHICH WOULD HAVE TO
BE A HUNDRED PERCENT RELIABLE. LIKE ALL
SCIENTIFIC TECHNIQUES, ESPECIALLY IN ENVIRONMENTAL
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 211
SCIENCES, I CAN'T GIVE YOU A NUMBER ON THE
ACCURACY. YOU CAN LOOK AT THE CESIUM PROFILES
AND DETERMINE FOR YOURSELF WHETHER YOU THINK
THEY'RE VALID OR NOT.
Q. OKAY. WHAT DID YOU COMPARE IT TO -- ANOTHER WAY
OF LOOKING AT ACCRETION, WHAT DID YOU COMPARE IT
TO AS YOUR BENCHMARK OF WHETHER YOU WERE GETTING
ACCURATE READINGS?
A. WELL, WE DIDN'T REALLY COMPARE IT. WE DID SOME
LEAD 210 ANALYSIS, THAT WE'RE STILL WORKING ON.
Q. OKAY. WHY DID YOU USE THE LEAD 210?
A. IT IS BELIEVED TO BE A MORE RELIABLE WAY OF DATING
PEATS OR MEASURING SEDIMENTATION THAN THE CESIUM
TECHNIQUE. IT'S MORE WIDELY ACCEPTED.
Q. OKAY. OKAY. AND WHAT ARE THE ADVANTAGES -- THE
ADVANTAGE, I GUESS, IS THAT IT'S CONSIDERED MORE
RELIABLE BY THE SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY?
A. YEAH, IT SEEMS TO WORK IN MORE ENVIRONMENTS THAN
THE CESIUM METHOD DOES.
Q. OKAY. AND WHAT IS THAT LEAD 210 SHOWING
PRESENTLY?
A. IT SHOWS THAT WE'RE SORT -- WE'RE IN THE BALLPARK
IN TERMS OF BOTH METHODS.
Q. ALL RIGHT. HOW FAR ARE YOU IN THE BALLPARK?
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 212
A. WELL, I THINK THE AVERAGE FOR OUR TWO -- WELL,
I FORGET HOW MANY CESIUM CORES. I THINK SOMEWHERE
WHEN WE GET INTO THE METHODS, WE TALK A LITTLE
BIT -- OR INTO THE RESULTS AND DISCUSSION, WE TALK
ABOUT IT. AND I WILL SEE IF I CAN FIND IT.
ON PAGE 13, WE TOOK ONE LEAD 210 CORE THAT
GAVE US AN ACCRETION RATE OF TWO MILLIMETERS PER
YEAR. IF WE COMPARE THIS TO OUR AVERAGE RATE OF
ACCRETION BY THE CESIUM TECHNIQUE IN UNENRICHED
AREAS, THAT GIVES US AN AVERAGE OF -- FOR THIRTEEN
CORES, 2.33 MILLIMETERS PER YEAR. SO, IT'S NOT
TOO BAD.
Q. OKAY. I HAVE SOME PROBLEM WITH THIS -- WE'RE ON
PAGE 13 -- THAT WE MEASURED THAT PARAGRAPH.
A. UH-HUH (YES).
Q. OKAY. IF WE LOOK AT CRAFT EXHIBIT NUMBER SEVEN.
MS. PONZOLI: DO YOU HAVE ANY OF
NUMBER SEVEN, RICK? WOULD YOU PULL
NUMBER SEVEN? I DON'T THINK I HAVE COPIES.
DO YOU HAVE NUMBER SEVEN?
MR. McCAUGHAN: NO, NO---
WITNESS: I DON'T HAVE IT.
MR. McCAUGHAN: ---I JUST HAVE FIVE.
MR. McCAUGHAN: DO YOU HAVE IT?
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 213
WITNESS: NO, I DON'T HAVE IT.
Q. (BY MS. PONZOLI) WHILE WE'RE LOOKING FOR THAT,
DR. CRAFT, CAN YOU TELL ME HOW YOU CHOSE THE ONE
CORE.
A. I JUST BASICALLY PICKED ONE THAT WAS IN
CONSERVATION AREA 2A.
Q. WAS IT AN ENRICHED OR UNENRICHED?
A. IT WAS IN AN ENRICHED AREA.
MS. PONZOLI: OKAY. DID YOU FIND
IT, MR. BURGESS?
MR. BURGESS: UH-HUH (YES).
MS. PONZOLI: OKAY. WOULD YOU MIND
SHARING IT WITH DR. CRAFT, CRAFT NUMBER
SEVEN?
MR. BURGESS: DO YOU WANT ME TO GIVE
THE WITNESS MY COPY OF THE EXHIBIT?
MS. PONZOLI: YES, MR. BURGESS, I DO;
I'D LIKE YOU TO SHARE IT WITH HIM, SO HE CAN
LOOK ON IT.
MR. BURGESS: ALL RIGHT. AND THEN IS
MY COPY GOING TO GET ATTACHED TO RECORD OR---
MS. PONZOLI: YOUR COPY IS---
MR. BURGESS: ---ARE YOU GOING TO MAKE
A COPY OR---
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 214
MS. PONZOLI: YOUR COPY IS ALREADY
IN THE RECORD AS CRAFT NUMBER SEVEN. HE
ONLY NEEDS TO LOOK AT ONE SET OF GRAPHS,
AND ANSWER ONE QUESTION TO CLEAR UP
SOMETHING.
WITNESS: CAN YOU SHOW ME YOURS?
I THINK I KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
MS. PONZOLI: I HAVE TO ANSWER
QUESTIONS -- I HAVE TO ASK HIM A QUESTION.
MR. BURGESS: THIS IS NOVEL, BUT GO
AHEAD.
MS. PONZOLI: WELL, I HAVE TO TELL
YOU -- WE CAN GO OFF THE RECORD AND DISCUSS
THE EXHIBIT PROBLEMS, MR. BURGESS, BUT
THEY'RE NOT ENTIRELY OF MY MAKING.
WITNESS: OKAY.
Q. (BY MS. PONZOLI) DR. RADER, I'D LIKE YOU TO TURN
TO---
A. DR. CRAFT.
MR. BURGESS: DR. CRAFT.
Q. DR. CRAFT---
A. THANK YOU.
Q. ---EXCUSE ME. THIS SET OF GRAPHS.
A. OKAY. I SEE IT. I HAVE IT RIGHT HERE.
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 215
Q. ARE YOU WITH ME?
A. YES.
Q. ALL RIGHT. ARE THESE THE LEAD 210 -- DO THESE
REFLECT LEAD 210 THAT YOU'RE DISCUSSING ON
PAGE 13?
A. YES.
Q. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THAT YOU
FOUND THE UNENRICHED VALUE BEING THE 2.0---
A. NO, THE ENRICHED VALUE IS 2.0.
Q. OKAY, THAT'S WHAT YOUR GRAPH SHOWS?
A. RIGHT.
Q. BUT IN YOUR WRITTEN TEXT YOU'RE INDICATING THAT
YOUR UNENRICHED IS 2.0, ARE YOU NOT?
A. ALL I SAY IS THAT WE MEASURED THE ACTIVITY IN ONE
CORE---
Q. RIGHT.
A. ---I DID NOT SPECIFY WHICH.
Q. NOW, THIS WAS AN ENRICHED CORE, IS WHAT YOU JUST
TOLD US---
A. YES.
Q. ---IN YOUR TESTIMONY?
A. RIGHT, IT IS.
Q. SO, YOU TOOK AN ENRICHED CORE AND THEN YOU SAY
THAT THAT ENRICHED CORE MATCHES THE AVERAGE RATE
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 216
OF ACCRETION IN UNENRICHED AREAS?
A. THAT'S RIGHT, I DID SAY THAT.
Q. OKAY. AND THEN THAT SUPPORTS THAT IT'S AN
EFFECTIVE CHRONOLOGICAL MARKER---
A. UH-HUH (YES).
Q. ---MATCHING AN ENRICHED TO AN UNENRICHED?
A. YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE
CESIUM TECHNIQUE AND THE LEAD 210 TECHNIQUE.
Q. THIS IS GOING TO BE FUN. EXPLAIN, PLEASE.
A. CESIUM GIVES YOU AN ACCRETION RATE OVER THE PAST
TWENTY-FIVE YEARS---
Q. OKAY.
A. ---SINCE 1964.
Q. OKAY.
A. LEAD 210, HOWEVER, GIVES YOU AN ACCRETION RATE
OVER THE PAST ONE HUNDRED TO ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY
YEARS---
Q. OKAY.
A. ---SO, YOU CAN'T COMPARE THEM DIRECTLY. BUT IF
YOU THINK ABOUT THE ENRICHMENT PROCESS IN 2A, IT'S
ONLY BEEN OCCURRING FOR TWENTY-FIVE YEARS. SO,
CESIUM PROBABLY GIVES YOU A PRETTY GOOD IDEA OF
ACCRETION SINCE THE TIME OF THE ENRICHMENT BEGAN.
HOWEVER, THE LEAD 210 CORE IS FOR ONE HUNDRED TO
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 217
ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY YEARS, WHICH MEANS THAT
SEVENTY-FIVE TO ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY-FIVE YEARS
OF THAT TIME PERIOD, IT WAS NOT SUBJECT TO
ENRICHMENT. SO, WE FELT LIKE IT WAS BETTER TO
COMPARE IT MORE OVER THAT TIME SCALE. SINCE
SEVENTY-FIVE TO A HUNDRED AND TWENTY-FIVE YEARS OF
THAT LEAD 210 PERIOD, IT WAS NOT EXPOSED TO THE
ENRICHMENT PROCESS.
Q. YOU WILL AT LEAST CONCEDE THAT YOUR PAPER DOES NOT
MAKE THAT COMPARISON CLEAR?
A. I AGREE, YOU'RE RIGHT.
Q. OKAY. IS IT IMPOSSIBLE TO QUANTIFY, DR. CRAFT,
THE PRECISION OF THE CESIUM METHOD BY TAKING
REPLICATE CORES?
A. CAN YOU REPEAT THE QUESTION, PLEASE?
Q. ARE YOU ABLE TO QUANTIFY YOUR PRECISION OF A
CESIUM CORE BY REPLICATE CORES?
A. YOU CAN IMPROVE THE RESOLUTION BY TAKING MORE
CORES, SURE.
Q. YOU CAN IMPROVE RESOLUTION, BUT YOU CAN'T EXACTLY
QUANTIFY PRECISION, IS THAT ACCURATE?
A. IN TERMS OF -- WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY PRECISION---
Q. WELL, THAT'S WHAT WE---
A. ---WHETHER IT'S CORRECT OR NOT---
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 218
Q. RIGHT.
A. ---WHETHER IT GIVES YOU---
Q. RIGHT. WHETHER IT'S ACCURATE OR NOT.
A. NO, NO. NO, I DON'T THINK YOU CAN.
Q. OKAY. OKAY. WHERE DO YOU STAND IN YOUR LEAD 210
WORK?
A. IT'S AN ONGOING THING. IT'S A LOT MORE TEDIOUS
THAN CESIUM, SO IT TAKES A LOT MORE TIME TO GET
GOOD NUMBERS.
Q. OKAY. AND WHAT CONCLUSIONS ARE YOU COMING TO?
A. THE LEAD'S IN THE BALLPARK WITH THE CESIUM. WE
SEE THE LEAD 210 ACCRETION RATES ARE AROUND ONE TO
THREE MILLIMETERS PER YEAR AND THE CESIUM IS
ANYWHERE FROM ABOUT ZERO TO FOUR OR FIVE
MILLIMETERS PER YEAR. AGAIN, THEY'RE TWO
TECHNIQUES THAT ARE QUITE DIFFERENT, AND THEY
ESTIMATE ACCRETION OVER TWO VERY DIFFERENT TIME
SCALES.
Q. OKAY. WHY DID YOU FEEL A NEED TO GO TO THE
LEAD 210, WHICH SOUNDS LIKE IT'S A FAIRLY TEDIOUS
TEST METHODOLOGY?
A. THE REVIEWERS FELT LIKE THAT -- YOU KNOW, ONE
REVIEWER THOUGHT THAT IT WOULD BE WORTHWHILE
TO ADDRESS THE LEAD QUESTION TO SEE WHETHER
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 219
IT GAVE US SIMILAR RESULTS OR BALLPARK-TYPE
RESULTS.
Q. OKAY. AND IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SPENDING A FAIR
AMOUNT OF YOUR TIME DOING PRESENTLY, THE LEAD 210
ANALYSIS?
A. WELL, I'M ACTUALLY SPENDING A FAIR AMOUNT OF TIME
WITH YOU-ALL, BUT WHEN I'M NOT DOING THAT, I AM
TRYING TO WORK ON THE LEAD 210, YEAH.
Q. IS THAT -- OTHER THAN THE TIME I OCCUPY---
A. RIGHT.
Q. ---IS THE LEAD 210 TAKING UP THE REST OF IT?
A. WELL, I MEAN, I AM TEACHING AND I HAVE OTHER
THINGS GOING ON, BUT IT'S SOMETHING I'M INTERESTED
IN, AND I THINK IT'S A MORE WIDELY ACCEPTED METHOD
FOR MEASURING ACCRETION.
Q. WHEN DO YOU EXPECT THAT YOU WILL HAVE THIS
LEAD 210 ANALYSIS COMPLETED?
A. WELL, IT'LL -- IT WILL NEVER END. I MEAN, IT'S --
YOU KNOW -- WELL, I'M JUST SAYING EVERY THREE
MONTHS, WE'RE PROBABLY ABLE TO DO TWENTY SAMPLES.
BUT BY A SAMPLE, I MEAN, YOU PROBABLY HAVE TO DO
THIRTY SAMPLES TO DO ONE CORE, SO. AND YOU-ALL
HAVE EVERYTHING UP-TO-DATE AT THIS POINT ON MY
LEAD WORK.
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 220
Q. WE HAVE -- YOU GAVE US -- YOU TURNED OVER ALL YOUR
DATA PRESENTLY?
A. OH, YEAH. RIGHT. YOU'VE GOT IT.
Q. OKAY. BUT DO YOU HAVE A PERIOD IN THE NEXT SIX
MONTHS, NINE MONTHS THAT YOU ANTICIPATE THAT YOU
WOULD HAVE SOME FIRM CONCLUSIONS AS TO WHAT THAT
ANALYSIS SHOWED?
A. NOT FIRM CONCLUSIONS; BUT BETTER CONCLUSIONS, I
THINK, YEAH.
Q. OKAY. ARE YOU SHOOTING FOR A PARTICULAR DATE?
A. NO, I'M JUST SHOOTING TO TRY TO GET IT DONE. I
MEAN, PROBABLY AS LONG AS I'M WORKING FOR THE
WETLAND CENTER, WE'LL BE DOING LEAD 210 ON
EVERGLADES CORES AND ON OTHER WETLAND CORES. IT'S
A GOOD TECHNIQUE. BUT IT'S A---
Q. AND ARE YOU CONTINUING TO DO CESIUM WORK, ALSO?
A. YES---
Q. OKAY.
A. ---BUT NOT TO THE EXTENT -- YOU KNOW, AT THIS
POINT WE HAVE MOST OF OUR CORES COLLECTED. WE'VE
ABOUT WOUND DOWN OUR CESIUM ANALYSIS UNLESS
SOMEBODY BRINGS ME SAMPLES FROM THE LOXAHATCHEE OR
FROM THE PARK.
Q. DO YOU ANTICIPATE THAT THEY WILL BE ASKING YOU TO
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 221
ANALYZE THOSE CESIUM SAMPLES?
A. WELL, I DON'T KNOW. THAT'S JUST IN REFERENCE TO
WHAT YOU TALKED ABOUT EARLIER THAT, EVEN AS WE
WERE SPEAKING, THERE WERE PEOPLE IN THERE TAKING
CORES, SO. ONLY TIME WILL TELL ON THAT, SO.
Q. SO, TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, NO ONE HAS ASKED YOU TO DO
THAT CESIUM ANALYSIS?
MR. BURGESS: ASKED AND ANSWERED.
A. NO, NOBODY -- NO, NOT YET. AS I MENTIONED, THIS
IS SOMETHING EVERY FALL, OH, WE MIGHT GET ACCESS
TO THE PARK AND TO THE LOXAHATCHEE. EVERY FALL
THE NEW YEAR COMES, AND WE DON'T HAVE ACCESS, AND
THEN THE SUBJECT'S DROPPED TILL THE FOLLOWING
FALL, AND THEN WE HEAR ABOUT IT AGAIN, SO.
Q. WELL, THIS YEAR, YOU GOT A CHRISTMAS PRESENT.
A. I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S GOOD OR BAD, THOUGH.
Q. ARE THERE ANY OTHER APPROACHES TO DATING THAT
YOU'RE ATTEMPTING?
A. WE WANT TO DO SOME POLLEN ANALYSIS.
Q. OKAY. WILL YOU BE DOING THAT?
A. I WILL PROBABLY BE SUPERVISING IT OR HELPING---
Q. WHO WILL BE DOING IT?
A. A GRADUATE STUDENT.
Q. HOW DOES POLLEN ANALYSIS WORK?
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 222
A. YOU BASICALLY EXTRACT THE POLLEN FROM, AGAIN,
DEPTH INCREMENTS OF THE PEAT, AND THEN YOU GO
THROUGH A VERY TEDIOUS TASK OF IDENTIFYING THE
POLLEN GRAINS. EACH -- I MEAN, I'VE NOT DONE
POLLEN ANALYSIS, BUT I AM FAMILIAR WITH THE
PROCEDURE. BUT EACH SPECIES HAS A UNIQUE SHAPED
POLLEN GRAIN, AND YOU CAN TELL -- FOR EXAMPLE,
CATTAIL POLLEN LOOKS DIFFERENT FROM SAWGRASS
POLLEN, AND THAT SORT OF THING.
Q. OKAY. AND ALL OF THIS IS GEARED AT UNDERSTANDING
PEAT ACCRETION AND THE PHOSPHORUS STORAGE CAPACITY
OF THE WATER CONSERVATION AREAS. IS THAT
ACCURATE?
A. IT'S REALLY MORE GEARED TOWARDS THE FIRST PART,
TOWARD UNDERSTANDING PEAT ACCRETION, AND HOW
CHANGES IN NUTRIENT ENRICHMENT AND HYDROLOGY
HAVE AFFECTED IT -- HAVE AFFECTED PEAT BUILDUP.
THE POLLEN ANALYSIS IS REALLY MORE, I THINK --
AND THE LEAD 210, TO SOME EXTENT -- IS MORE JUST
BASIC SCIENCE, BETTER UNDERSTANDING PEAT BUILDUP
IN THE EVERGLADES AND HOW CHANGES IN HYDROLOGY
AND NUTRIENT ENRICHMENT MAY AFFECT THE PEAT
BUILDUP.
Q. THE POLLEN ANALYSIS ISN'T GOING TO TELL YOU
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 223
HOW HYDROLOGY CONTRIBUTES TO PEAT ACCRETION, IS
IT?
A. IT COULD POTENTIALLY PROVIDE INFORMATION ON THAT,
YES.
Q. HOW?
A. POLLEN -- OKAY. MY GENERAL UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT
HAS HAPPENED TO THE EVERGLADES IS SINCE THE EARLY
1900'S, THEY'VE DONE A LOT OF -- IS WHEN THE
CANALS WERE PUT IN PLACE, AND A LOT OF THE
DRAINAGE WAS INITIATED.
Q. UH-HUH (YES).
A. WELL, IT JUST SO HAPPENS THAT AT THE TURN OF THE
CENTURY, THERE WERE A LOT OF EXOTIC SPECIES
INTRODUCED INTO SOUTH FLORIDA, SUCH AS AUSTRALIAN
PINE, WHICH HERETOFORE THERE WAS NO AUSTRALIAN
PINE POLLEN FOUND THERE. SO, WE MAY BE ABLE TO
LOOK AT THINGS LIKE AN INCREASE IN PINE POLLEN --
AUSTRALIAN PINE POLLEN, AND RELATE THAT TO
CHANGES -- GO DEEP INTO THE LITERATURE AND SEE IF
WE CAN RELATE CHANGES IN DRAINAGE TO USING THE
APPEARANCE OF AUSTRALIAN PINE POLLEN IN THE
PROFILE. IS THAT CONFUSING?
Q. NO.
A. IT IS FOR ME.
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 224
Q. WELL, IT JUST SORT OF SEEMED LIKE IT WAS A
ROUNDABOUT WAY TO SORT OUT SOME FACTORS GOING
ON IN THE EVERGLADES. IT SEEMS LIKE YOU'RE
GOING TO THE HARDEST, MOST ABSTRACT WAY TO
SORT OUT HYDROLOGY AND NUTRIENT ENRICHMENT.
IS THAT---
A. NO, IT JUST SO HAPPENS THAT POLLEN AND LEAD ARE
JUST THE -- THE RELIABLE TECHNIQUES, AND SO THEY
ARE WELL-ACCEPTED BY THE SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY.
BUT THEY'RE -- IF YOU'LL EXCUSE ME -- THEY'RE A
BITCH TO DO, SO, THEY'RE JUST VERY DIFFICULT---
Q. OKAY. OKAY.
A. ---YOU KNOW, IF THERE WAS AN EASIER WAY, I'M SURE
EVERYBODY WOULD BE JUMPING ON THE BANDWAGON AND
DOING IT, BUT THERE'S NOT.
Q. OKAY. SO -- JUST SO I UNDERSTAND, WHEN YOU USE
THE POLLEN ANALYSIS, YOU'LL BE LOOKING FOR THINGS
LIKE WHATEVER THE VARIOUS SPECIES, POLLEN, SHOW UP
IN THE ANALYSIS?
A. RIGHT.
Q. AND THEN YOU'LL BE TRYING TO DETERMINE HISTORICAL
MACROPHYTE SPECIES COMPOSITION USING THAT POLLEN
ANALYSIS?
A. NO, TRYING TO RELATE -- FOR EXAMPLE -- LET ME GIVE
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 225
YOU AN EXAMPLE. LET'S SAY WE TAKE A CORE AND WE
LOOK FOR AUSTRALIAN PINE POLLEN, AND IT SHOWS UP
AT SOME DEPTH. WE CAN GO BACK TO THE LITERATURE
AND FIND OUT WHEN AUSTRALIAN PINE WAS -- ROUGHLY
WHEN IT WAS FIRST INTRODUCED TO SOUTH FLORIDA.
SO, WHEN WE START SEEING POLLEN IN THE PEAT, WE
CAN SAY, WELL, THE SURFACE OF THE PEAT PROBABLY
WAS AT THIS DEPTH IN 1905 WHEN THE FIRST
AUSTRALIAN PINE TREE WAS, YOU KNOW, LISTED IN
THE LITERATURE. AND SO WE CAN GET AN ESTIMATE
OF ACCRETION FROM THAT HYPOTHETICAL 1905 PERIOD
ON WHEN THE AUSTRALIAN PINE POLLEN FIRST SHOWED
UP.
Q. THIS IS A DATING MARKER, THEN?
A. YEAH. YEAH, THAT'S ALL IT IS.
Q. OH, OKAY. OKAY. WHY NOT COMPARE THE LEAD 210
IN AN UNENRICHED AREA WITH AN UNENRICHED CESIUM?
A. WE'VE DONE THAT.
Q. OKAY. AND HOW DID THAT COME OUT?
A. AGAIN, WE'RE IN THE BALLPARK. THE CESIUM CORE --
THE CESIUM WAS AT THE SURFACE, SO THERE WAS NO
ACCRETION DURING THAT TIME PERIOD. THE CESIUM---
Q. THAT WAS THAT ONE CORE THAT YOU DIDN'T HAVE IT
BENEATH THE SURFACE?
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 226
A. RIGHT.
Q. OKAY.
A. THE LEAD 210 FOR THAT SAME CORE SHOWED AN
ACCRETION RATE OF POINT NINE MILLIMETERS PER YEAR,
LESS THAN ONE MILLIMETER PER YEAR. AND, REALLY,
FOR TWO DIFFERENT TECHNIQUES THAT DATE TWO
DIFFERENT TIME INTERVALS, I DON'T THINK THAT'S
HALF BAD.
Q. DID YOU DO IT AT ANY OTHER SITE, OTHER THAN
THE ONE PLACE WHERE YOU COULDN'T GET A CESIUM
MARKER?
A. THE OTHER CORES THAT WE'VE DONE SO FAR ARE
ACTUALLY CORES THAT WE HAVE JUST COLLECTED FOR
LEAD 210 ANALYSIS AT THIS POINT. AND---
Q. YOU HAVEN'T GONE BACK TO ANY OF YOUR CESIUM CORING
SITES?
A. NOT YET, NO.
Q. DO YOU INTEND TO?
A. NO, WE HAVE GONE BACK TO TWO OF THEM---
Q. OKAY.
A. ---AND WE'VE GOT THE CORES, BUT WE JUST HAVEN'T
DONE -- YOU KNOW, THEY'RE PRETTY MUCH SITTING IN
A CLOSET RIGHT NOW, UNTIL I GET TIME TO START
WORKING THEM UP.
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 227
Q. OKAY. ARE YOU GOING TO DO 210 WORK, TO YOUR
KNOWLEDGE, ON THE PARK IN THE REFUGE?
A. IF I WAS GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY, I WOULD LIKE TO DO
SO, YEAH, NO DOUBT.
Q. SO, WHO'S THE ONE WHO DECIDES WHETHER YOU HAVE THE
OPPORTUNITY?
A. WELL, I GUESS THAT'S A -- IF I HEAR -- IF AND
WHEN I HEAR THAT SOMEBODY -- YOU KNOW, THAT
SOMEBODY'S COLLECTED CORES, AND THAT WE'RE GOING
TO DO THE ANALYSIS ON THEM. AGAIN, THAT'S SORT
OF A DECISION TO WHOEVER IS COLLECTING THE CORES,
OR DR. RICHARDSON, OR SOMEBODY LIKE THAT.
Q. BUT, TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE, NO ONE HAS INTENDED FOR
YOU TO DO THAT PRESENTLY?
A. NO. AND, TO MY KNOWLEDGE -- REALLY, I'M MORE
INTERESTED -- CURTIS AND I ARE MORE INTERESTED
IN THE LEAD 210. IT OBVIOUSLY DOES NOT HAVE
AS USEFUL APPLICATIONS TO THE PROBLEM OF
ENRICHMENT, BECAUSE IT DOES DATE OVER A ONE
HUNDRED YEAR PERIOD. BUT, AGAIN, I MEAN, WE'RE
INTERESTED IN, YOU KNOW, HOW PEAT ACCRETION
RESPONDS TO THESE CHANGES IN HYDROPERIOD AND
NUTRIENT ENRICHMENT. AND LEAD MAY ACTUALLY BE
A TECHNIQUE TO HELP SORT OF SORT OUT THE
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 228
HYDROPERIOD, BECAUSE IT DOES DATE IT OVER A ONE
HUNDRED YEAR PERIOD.
Q. HOW WOULD DO IT THAT? CAN YOU EXPLAIN THAT TO
ME, HOW YOU COULD SORT OUT THE HYDROPERIOD BY
USING THE LEAD 210?
A. WELL, WE MAY BE ABLE TO DO THAT.
Q. OKAY. HOW MAY YOU?
A. BECAUSE THE DRAINAGE REALLY DIDN'T START UNTIL THE
EARLY 1900'S. BUT I DON'T THINK IT REALLY -- YOU
KNOW, I THINK THERE ARE THREE OR FOUR PERIODS --
AND JIM PROBABLY CAN GIVE THE CHRONOLOGICALLY AS
TO THE BIG EPISODES OF CHANNEL, AND CHANNEL --
DIGGING CANALS AND IMPOUNDING, AND I THINK IN THE
EARLY 1900'S, AND THEN AGAIN MAYBE IN THE LATE
'20'S, AND THEN ANOTHER BIG PUSH, I THINK, RIGHT
AFTER WORLD WAR II. SO, IT MAYBE THAT IN THE
EARLY 1900'S THEY DID SOME DREDGING AND THAT
SHORTENED THE HYDROPERIOD SOME, BUT NOT A HUGE
AMOUNT. AND THEN IN THE '20'S, SOME MORE DIGGING
CANALS TENDED TO, YOU KNOW, PULL MORE WATER AND
DRAIN MORE WATER OUT OF THE EVERGLADES, SO YOU SEE
ANOTHER DECREASE IN HYDROPERIOD. AND THEN ANOTHER
TIME AFTER WORLD WAR II. SO, I'M HOPING THE LEAD
MAY PROVIDE SOME INFORMATION ON THE PEAT ACCRETION
DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 229
RATE OVER THE PAST ONE HUNDRED YEARS TO ONE
HUNDRED AND FIFTY YEARS TO RELATE---
Q. HAVE YOU WRITTEN THIS UP AS A PROPOSAL---
A. NO.
Q. ---FOR RESEARCH?
A. NO. HUH-UH (NO).
Q. OKAY. SO, IT'S NOT PRESENTLY SOMETHING THAT'S
FUNDED---
A. NO.
Q. ---OR IT'S GOING TO BE DONE?
A. NO.
Q. OKAY. NOW, YOU SAID OTHER THAN THE POLLEN
ANALYSIS, THERE WERE NO OTHER APPROACHES TO DATING
THAT YOU'RE ATTEMPTING?
A. THAT I'M ATTEMPTING, YEAH, OR ANYBODY THAT I KNOW
OF IS ATTEMPTING IT.
Q. YOU KNOW OF?
A. RIGHT.
MS. PONZOLI: OKAY. ALL RIGHT. I
THINK I'D LIKE TO BREAK FOR LUNCH NOW IF
THAT'S AGREEABLE WITH THE PEOPLE IN THE
ROOM.
(THEREUPON, A LUNCH
BREAK WAS TAKEN.)