DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 374

THE FOLLOWING PORTION OF THE DEPOSITION

OF DR. CHRISTOPHER B. CRAFT WAS TAKEN ON THE 8TH

DAY OF DECEMBER, 1992, BEGINNING AT OR AROUND

10:26 A.M. IN THE HILTON HOTEL, DURHAM, NORTH

CAROLINA, AND WAS REPORTED BY CAROL ANN S. YOUNG,

A NOTARY PUBLIC.

- - - - - - - - - -

WHEREUPON,

DR. CHRISTOPHER B. CRAFT,

HAVING PREVIOUSLY BEEN DULY SWORN,

WAS EXAMINED AND TESTIFIED AS

AS FOLLOWS:

EXAMINATION BY MS. PONZOLI CONTINUES:

Q. DR. CRAFT, I HAVE A FEW CLEAN-UP QUESTIONS AND

THEN I HAVE A FEW MORE QUESTIONS ON A COUPLE OF

AREAS THAT WE DIDN'T TALK ABOUT YESTERDAY. ONE

CLEAN-UP QUESTION I HAVE IS IN REGARD TO CRAFT

NUMBER SIXTEEN, YOUR PEAT ACCRETION AND NUTRIENT

ACCUMULATION ALONG THE EUTROPHICATION GRADIENT IN

THE NORTHERN EVERGLADES. I WOULD JUST LIKE YOU

TO TURN TO THE DRAFT GRAPH AT THE END. ARE YOU

WITH ME?

A. UH-HUH (YES). (NODS AFFIRMATIVELY)

Q. THAT LITTLE PHOSPHORUS ACCUMULATION POINT AT TEN

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 375

KILOMETERS FROM THE HILLSBORO CANAL, IS THAT AN

OUTLIER?

A. I REALLY DON'T KNOW.

Q. DO YOU KNOW WHY THAT POINT IS SO FAR OFF THE

CURVE?

A. WELL, IT'S NOT OFF THE CURVE IN TERMS OF THE PEAT

ACCUMULATION LINE, WHICH IS THE SLASH LINE. IT'S

OFF THE CURVE FOR THE SURFACE WATER ACCUMULATION

FLOW OR SURFACE WATER CONCENTRATION.

Q. CAN YOU ACCOUNT FOR WHY EVERYTHING ELSE SEEMS TO

MATCH SO WELL AND THAT ONE SEEMS TO BE DISTINCTLY

DIFFERENT?

A. NO, I REALLY DO NOT KNOW, AND I DON'T THINK IT

IS ALL THAT DIFFERENT WHEN YOU COMPARE THAT

ACCUMULATION NUMBER TO THE ONE LIKE, SAY, AT EIGHT

KILOMETERS SOUTH.

Q. WELL, THE ONE AT EIGHT WAS PRECEDING DOWNWARD

FROM THE ONE AT SIX, AND THIS ONE JUMPS BACK UP

AGAIN.

A. BUT, AGAIN, I THINK YOU MIGHT -- IT MIGHT BE

WORTHWHILE TO GO BACK TO THE ONE OF THE TABLES AND

SEE HOW THE -- WHAT THE ERRORS ARE ASSOCIATED WITH

THESE.

Q. WHICH TABLE ARE YOU AT?

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 376

A. THIS IS TABLE 4. AND, AGAIN, I SEE IN THIS CASE,

THE AVERAGE ACCUMULATION RATE AT THAT TEN POINT

IS .13 GRAMS PER METER SQUARED PER YEAR. THE

ERROR -- THE STANDARD ERROR IS GOING TO BE

SOMEWHERE BETWEEN ZERO AND .01, THE ROUNDING

ERROR, OF COURSE. AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE 8.3

SITE, IT'S .8 WITH A STANDARD ERROR OF .03, WHICH

BRINGS IT UP TO POINT -- YOU KNOW, IT COULD GO UP

TO -- GENERALLY SOME PEOPLE USE TWO STANDARD

ERRORS AS A RANGE OF WHETHER THEY'RE SIGNIFICANTLY

DIFFERENT ARE NOT. AND, AGAIN, I DON'T THINK THE

.08 AND THE .13 REALLY DIFFER THAT MUCH.

Q. SO, YOU'RE SAYING THEY'RE STATISTICALLY

DIFFERENT?

A. OH, I'M NOT SAYING THAT BECAUSE I DIDN'T DO THE

TEST.

Q. OKAY. I'D LIKE TO LOOK AT CRAFT NUMBER

TWENTY-SIX, WHICH I THINK IS -- SHOULD BE IN FRONT

OF YOU.

(THEREUPON, WITNESS GETS DOCUMENT.)

A. OKAY. I HAVE IT IN FRONT OF ME.

Q. OKAY. HAS THIS -- IS THIS A DRAFT PUBLICATION

THAT YOU'RE SUBMITTING?

A. YES, IT'S IN DRAFT FORM.

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 377

Q. ALL RIGHT. AND ARE YOU INTENDING TO SUBMIT IT TO

AQUATIC BOTANY?

A. I'M LEANING IN THAT DIRECTION. AGAIN, I THINK I

MAY TALK TO ONE OF THE EDITORS TO SEE WHETHER IT'S

REALLY APPROPRIATE FOR THAT JOURNAL BEFORE I SEND

IT THERE.

Q. OKAY. SO, THAT ANSWERS MY NEXT QUESTION. YOU

HAVEN'T SUBMITTED IT ANYWHERE?

A. NO. NO, IT HAS NOT GONE OUT.

Q. OKAY. HAVE YOU -- IS THIS THE MOST RECENT DRAFT

OF IT?

A. YES.

Q. DO YOU INTEND TO MAKE ANY CHANGES BEFORE YOU DO

SUBMIT IT?

A. I'M DEFINITELY GOING TO HAVE DR. RICHARDSON REVIEW

IT ONE MORE TIME BEFORE I SEND IT OUT. AND I, OF

COURSE, WILL LOOK AT IT. SO, IT'S NOT READY, IT'S

PROBABLY A MONTH AWAY, BUT IT'S CLOSE.

Q. OKAY. WE DISCUSSED TWO PUBLICATIONS YESTERDAY

AND WE'RE GOING TO TAKE JUST A SECOND AND LOOK

AT THIS ONE. ARE THERE ANY OTHER PUBLICATIONS

THAT YOU HAVE READY TO BE SUBMITTED THAT I HAVE

NOT---

A. NO. THE TWO ARE THIS ONE AND THE ONE THAT WE JUST

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 378

ADDRESSED, THE PEAT ACCRETION AND NUTRIENT

ACCUMULATION.

Q. OKAY. I'D LIKE YOU TO LOOK IN THE ABSTRACT AT THE

FINAL PARAGRAPH AND I WOULD JUST LIKE YOU TO TAKE

A SECOND AND READ THAT FINAL PARAGRAPH OF THE

ABSTRACT, AND ASK YOU IF YOU STILL CONCUR WITH

WHAT'S WRITTEN THERE?

(THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.)

A. YES, I THINK, I CONCUR WITH THIS.

Q. OKAY. AND YOU HAVE NO DATA THAT SHOWS DIFFERENT

INFORMATION?

A. NO, NOT AT THIS TIME.

Q. OKAY. WOULD YOU TURN TO THE NEXT PAGE AND THE

INTRODUCTION, PLEASE. AND FOUR LINES UP FROM THE

BOTTOM IS A SENTENCE THAT STATES, "CONCURRENT WITH

THIS INPUT HAS BEEN A SHIFT IN THE STRUCTURE AND

COMPOSITION OF NATIVE EVERGLADES PLANT

COMMUNITIES." DO YOU STILL CONCUR WITH THAT

STATEMENT?

(THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.)

A. YES. BASED ON WHAT THE LITERATURE SHOWS TO THIS

TIME, YEAH.

Q. OKAY. AND THEN AT THE END, IN THE CONCLUSIONS,

DR. CRAFT, YOU HAVE "CONCLUSIONS." ARE THESE

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 379

CONCLUSIONS STILL VALID? WOULD YOU -- IF YOU'LL

JUST TAKE A SECOND AND READ THROUGH HERE AND TELL

ME THAT YOU STILL BELIEVE THESE ARE VALID AND HAVE

NO DATA THAT'S INDICATING THAT YOU WILL CHANGE

THESE?

(THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.)

A. I CAN'T SAY WHETHER I'LL CHANGE THESE OR NOT.

I MEAN, FOR THE MOST PART, THEY WILL NOT BE

CHANGED.

Q. FOR THE MOST PART?

A. WELL, THE ONLY THING I MIGHT CHANGE -- WELL, I

CAN'T, YOU KNOW---

Q. RIGHT.

A. ---IS -- I FEEL LIKE AT THIS POINT WE DON'T HAVE

ENOUGH DATA ON THE SHIFT -- THE POTENTIAL SHIFT

THAT MIGHT OCCUR FROM SAWGRASS TO CATTAIL IN THAT

LAST PARAGRAPH, NOR WAS THERE A NOTED INCREASE IN

CATTAIL IN THE FERTILIZED PLOTS. I MAY NOT --

THAT MAY COME OUT OF THE CONCLUSIONS. I FEEL

LIKE AT THIS POINT -- WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY

PRE-TREATMENT INFORMATION WITHIN THE PLOTS ON

WHAT THE CATTAIL DENSITY WAS. BUT AFTER ONE YEAR,

WE HAVE CATTAIL DATA. AND AFTER TWO YEARS, WE

HAVE MORE CATTAIL DATA. SO, I THINK, I WILL NOT

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 380

REALLY ADDRESS THAT UNTIL WE WRITE UP THE TWO

YEARS WORTH OF DATA.

Q. SO, YOU'RE GOING TO TAKE OUT THE PART FROM -- MORE

TOWARD THE END---

A. I THINK I MAY TAKE THAT OUT---

Q. OKAY.

A. ---THAT WILL BE THE ONE THING THAT I WOULD

DEFINITELY REVIEW.

Q. ALL RIGHT. AND THEN WAS THERE ANOTHER -- WAS

THERE ANOTHER STATEMENT THAT YOU SAID YOU MIGHT

ALTER?

A. NO. I MEAN, I'M NOT GOING TO STATE EMPHATICALLY

THAT IT WILL NOT CHANGE---

Q. I'M NOT ASKING FOR THAT -- I'M NOT ASKING FOR

THAT.

A. ---AGAIN, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING I

WANT TO LOOK AT HERE. BUT, REALLY, EVERYTHING

ELSE WILL PROBABLY STAY IN THERE.

Q. I'D LIKE TO TAKE JUST ONE TINY QUESTION ON CRAFT

NUMBER TWENTY-THREE -- MAYBE TWO TINY QUESTIONS.

A. OKAY.

Q. THIS IS IN REGARD TO THE APPLICATION OF BROMIDES

TO TRACE FERTILIZER AMMONIUM AND EVERGLADES

MICROCOSM. DID YOU WRITE THIS?

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 381

A. YES.

Q. OKAY. SO, WHEN YOU SAY, "I FAVOR SUGGESTION

NUMBER ONE ON THE SECOND PAGE," YOU WERE IN FAVOR

OF A SINGLE ANNUAL APPLICATION OF FERTILIZER?

A. AT THE TIME I WROTE THIS, YES.

Q. OKAY. WHY WAS THAT?

A. MY MAIN INTEREST WHEN I STARTED THIS STUDY WAS THE

EFFECT ON THE MACROPHYTES AND I FEEL LIKE -- WELL,

I FELT LIKE, AND TO SOME EXTENT I STILL FEEL LIKE,

FOR MACROPHYTES TO REALLY SEE THE RESPONSE, YOU

SHOULD APPLY IT DOING THE DRIEST TIME OF YEAR WHEN

MOST -- YOU HAVE THE GREATEST PROBABILITY OF

RETAINING ALL THE FERTILIZER OR MOST OF IT IN

THE PLOTS. AND AFTER I TALKED TO DR. VYMAZAL,

WHO WAS INTERESTED IN DOING SOME WORK IN THE

PLOTS, WE DECIDED TO LOOK AT THE EFFECTS OF

PERIPHYTON, A SINGLE DRY SEASON APPLICATION

PROBABLY WOULD NOT PROVIDE ANY INFORMATION ON

LOOKING AT PERIPHYTON CHANGES. AND FOR THAT

REASON WE STARTED GOING TO SPREADING IT MORE

EVENLY THROUGHOUT THE YEAR.

Q. OKAY. IS THAT SECOND SENTENCE, WE ARE INTERESTED

IN DETERMINING IF AND AT WHAT LEVELS FERTILIZERS,

NITROGEN AND PHOSPHORUS, CAUSE A SHIFT FROM A

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 382

SAWGRASS MARSH TO A WETLAND DOMINATED BY

CATTAILS---

A. WHERE -- IS THIS ON THE FIRST PAGE?

Q. SECOND PAGE.

A. AND WHERE IS THIS?

Q. RIGHT AFTER, "I FAVOR SUGGESTION NUMBER ONE."

A. OKAY.

Q. IS THAT PRETTY CLOSE TO A HYPOTHESIS?

A. YES. AND AFTER THINKING ABOUT YESTERDAY'S

QUESTIONS, I DO HAVE SOME -- THEY WEREN'T EXPLICIT

HYPOTHESIS IN THIS STUDY, BUT WE HAD OBJECTIVES

AND WITHIN THOSE ARE SOME IMPLICIT HYPOTHESES.

Q. OKAY. AND ARE THOSE OBJECTIVES STATED IN YOUR

CHAPTERS IN THE ANNUAL REPORTS?

A. YES, YES. AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU SHOULD

UNDERSTAND, BUT I WOULD LIKE YOU ALL TO UNDERSTAND

THAT BY LATE IN THE DAY YESTERDAY AND WITHOUT

HAVING ANY OF THE DOCUMENTATION IN FRONT OF ME,

THAT -- WELL, I REALLY JUST WASN'T THINKING.

AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK I'VE PROBABLY WRITTEN CLOSE

TO A MILLION WORDS IN THE PAST THREE OR FOUR YEARS

AND IT'S HARD TO BE ABLE TO RECALL EVERYTHING FROM

MEMORY. SO, IT'S NICE TO HAVE THE LITERATURE IN

FRONT OF ME, SO.

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 383

Q. WELL, I WOULD HAVE HAD COPIES FOR YOU YESTERDAY,

BUT WE HAD SOME SEVERE PROBLEMS BEING SO FAR AWAY

FROM HOME.

A. OKAY.

Q. MY NEXT QUESTION IS IS THAT IF THERE WERE TO BE A

SHIFT FROM A SAWGRASS MARSH TO A WETLAND DOMINATED

BY CATTAILS, HOW DO YOU THINK THAT SHIFT WOULD

TAKE PLACE?

A. WELL, I DON'T REALLY KNOW, BUT I THINK THE

STUDY -- THE FERTILIZER STUDY TRIES TO ADDRESS

THAT BY EACH OF THE THREE SITES. AND AT THE

SAWGRASS SITE, IT'S -- THE PLOTS ARE PURE

SAWGRASS, THERE'S NO CATTAIL IN THEM. AND IF WE

WERE TO SEE CATTAIL INVADE THOSE PLOTS, IT WOULD

CERTAINLY SUGGEST THE SEEDS COMING IN AND THEN

GERMINATING. AT THE MIXED SITE WHERE THERE IS

CATTAIL IN ALL THE PLOTS, IF WE SAW A CATTAIL

EXPANSION THERE, THAT WOULD CERTAINLY SUGGEST

THAT IT'S VEGETATIVE REPRODUCTION. THEY ARE

THERE TO BEGIN WITH AND THEY JUST OUT COMPETE

OR COMPETE MORE SUCCESSFULLY FOR THE RESOURCES

THAN SAWGRASS. AND AT THE SLOUGH SITE IS KIND

OF -- WELL, A ROUNDABOUT WAY TO LOOK AT THE

EFFECTS OF WATER LEVEL, THERE HAVE BEEN SOME

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 384

PEOPLE HYPOTHESIZE -- I THINK POPE -- AND AGAIN

THIS IS FROM MEMORY -- THAT HE SUGGESTED THAT WHAT

CATTAIL DOES IS IT TENDS TO COLONIZE THESE DEEPER

AREAS SUCH AS SLOUGHS AND THEN MOVES INTO THE

SAWGRASS AREAS. AND IF WE WERE TO SEE THAT AT THE

SLOUGH, THAT WOULD SUGGEST THAT PERHAPS THAT IS

THE MECHANISM THAT OCCURS.

Q. WHAT PHYSICAL FACTORS, SPECIFICALLY WATER LEVELS,

WOULD YOU EXPECT TO SEE IN A SHIFT?

A. MAYBE REPHRASE THE QUESTION. I'M NOT QUITE SURE

I'M---

Q. IF YOU'RE LOOKING TO SEE A SHIFT IN THE GENERAL

EVERGLADES, WHAT WATER LEVELS DO YOU THINK YOU'RE

GOING TO NEED TO SEE?

A. TO A SHIFT FROM SAY SAWGRASS TO CATTAIL?

Q. UH-HUH (YES).

A. I THINK DEEPER WATER PROBABLY WOULD HAVE A ROLE IN

THAT, AND MAYBE THE DURATION OF THE HYDROPERIOD,

ALTHOUGH I DON'T REALLY KNOW ABOUT THAT.

Q. AND HOW WOULD THEY PROPAGATE? IS THAT THE PROPER

TERM?

A. I DON'T KNOW. IT COULD BE VEGETATIVE OR IT COULD

BE THE SEED GERMINATION. IN THAT CASE, PERHAPS,

VEGETATIVE, I MEAN, THERE IS -- WE FOUND CATTAIL

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 385

IN CONSERVATION AREAS 3A AND 2A. THERE IS SOME

CATTAIL EVERYWHERE, PERHAPS NOT IN THE KIND OF

DENSITIES THAT YOU SEE IN 2A. AND IT'S POSSIBLE

THAT THE COMBINATION OF DEEPER WATERS AND/OR

NUTRIENT ENRICHMENT CAUSES THIS SHIFT.

Q. CAN THEY GERMINATE IN DEEPER WATER?

A. I DON'T THINK SO, BUT I DON'T KNOW. I THINK THEY

DO REQUIRE A PERIOD WHERE YOU DON'T HAVE ANY

SURFACE WATER OR SOMETHING. BUT, AGAIN, I DON'T

KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT HOW CATTAIL -- THE GERMINATION

REQUIREMENTS FOR CATTAIL SEEDS.

Q. DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA ABOUT THE NUTRIENT LEVELS

THAT THEY NEED?

A. NO, I DON'T KNOW. BUT I THINK THIS STUDY, IF WE

CONTINUE TO FERTILIZE LONG ENOUGH, WE WILL BE ABLE

TO DETERMINE WHETHER -- THE RELATIVE ROLE OF THESE

ADDITIONS ON THE SHIFT.

Q. I'D LIKE YOU TO LOOK AT CRAFT NUMBER THIRTY-TWO.

I THINK I JUST REPRODUCED THE ONE DOCUMENT THAT

I'M INTERESTED IN. SO, YOUR THIRTY-TWO IS A LOT

BETTER THAN MY THIRTY-TWO. THIS IS A LETTER FROM

ONE OF THE COUNSEL AT THIS TABLE TO ONE OF THE

RESEARCHERS AT THIS TABLE, DR. RICHARDSON,

REGARDING DRAFT EVERGLADES NUTRIENT THRESHOLD

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 386

STUDY PLAN. AND I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW HOW YOU

GOT THIS?

A. I BELIEVE -- ALTHOUGH I DON'T REMEMBER EXACTLY --

BUT DR. RICHARDSON PERIODICALLY PASSES INFORMATION

ON TO ME THAT HE THINKS MIGHT BE OF INTEREST TO

ME.

Q. ARE YOU ASKED TO REVIEW THAT INFORMATION?

A. NO. MORE JUST -- IT JUST GIVES ME A BETTER IDEA

OF WHAT OTHER STUDIES ARE GOING ON AND---

Q. SO, YOU DON'T -- YOU DON'T, LIKE, REVIEW IT AND GO

BACK TO DR. RICHARDSON AND TELL HIM WHAT YOU THINK

OF IT?

A. NO.

Q. ALL RIGHT. THE NEXT DOCUMENT I'D LIKE TO ASK YOU

ABOUT IS CRAFT NUMBER SIX. THIS IS IN A FILE

LABELED "N AND P." I GUESS I'VE ONLY REPRODUCED

FOR YOU CERTAIN PAGES FROM THIS FILE SO LET ME

JUST ASK YOU ABOUT THOSE. IF I SHOW YOU THE FILE

IT WAS FROM, CAN YOU TELL ME---

A. MAY I LOOK AT IT, PLEASE?

Q. SURE. THAT'S THE WHOLE FILE AS YOU PRODUCED IT

TO US.

(THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.)

A. ALL RIGHT.

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 387

Q. WHAT IS THAT FILE, DR. CRAFT?

A. THIS RELATES TO THE -- THIS IS THE FILE THAT HAS

THE DATA ON THE PAPER THAT'S BEEN ACCEPTED BY

ECOLOGICAL APPLICATIONS.

Q. OKAY. THE PAGE THAT I BELIEVE THAT HAS BEEN

REPRODUCED FOR YOU HAS "STRUCTURE, PHOSPHORUS

LOAD, TREATMENT AREA, AND PHOSPHORUS STORAGE."

RIGHT?

A. RIGHT.

Q. OKAY. I WOULD LIKE FOR YOU TO EXPLAIN TO ME WHAT

THIS PAGE IS ABOUT, AND WHAT THE NUMBERS

REPRESENT?

A. I'M NOT SURE. I KNOW THAT THE LOAD IS -- I TOOK

OUT OF THE SWIM PLAN. THIS IS, I THINK, WHAT GOES

THROUGH THESE RESPECTIVE GATES IN METRIC TONS PER

YEAR. I'M NOT SURE ABOUT THE TREATMENT AREA AND

THE P STORAGE. I MEAN, I KNOW WHAT THEY MEAN, BUT

I'M NOT SURE HOW I CALCULATED THESE NUMBERS OR

WHETHER I TOOK THEM FROM SOMEWHERE.

Q. DO THOSE NUMBERS LOOK REMOTELY FAMILIAR TO YOU?

A. NOT REALLY. I DON'T THINK THEY'RE IN THE

MANUSCRIPT.

Q. WELL, LET'S ASSUME THAT THOSE ARE STA'S FOR EACH

OF THOSE STRUCTURES.

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 388

A. IS THAT WHAT THEY ARE? I DON'T---

Q. WELL, I DON'T KNOW. YOU WROTE THIS---

A. ---REFRESH MY MEMORY.

Q. ---I DIDN'T. BUT THEY LOOK PRETTY FAMILIAR TO ME.

LET'S ASSUME THAT THEY ARE STA'S FOR S5A 6, 7,

AND 8, AND THAT YOU TOOK THEM FROM THE SWIM PLAN

OR SOMEWHERE ELSE. BUT YOU'VE GOT PHOSPHORUS

STORAGE OVER TO THE RIGHT. I'D LIKE FOR YOU TO

RECONSTRUCT FOR ME HOW YOU THINK YOU MIGHT HAVE

DONE THAT.

A. I'M WONDERING IF I DIVIDED THESE NUMBERS TO

TREAT -- I'M NOT SURE WHERE THE TREATMENT AREA

NUMBERS COME FROM THOUGH. THEY CERTAINLY DON'T

SUM UP TO THAT NUMBER AT THE BOTTOM, THOUGH, THE

3260.

Q. MAYBE YOU LEFT OFF A ZERO.

A. WELL, THAT COULD BE.

Q. WELL, ASSUMING YOU LEFT OFF A ZERO, DO YOU THINK

YOU -- THAT THAT'S WHAT YOU ACTUALLY DID, WAS

DIVIDE OUT?

A. I THINK SO, BUT AGAIN I'M NOT A HUNDRED PERCENT

SURE.

Q. AND AREN'T THESE PHOSPHORUS STORAGE NUMBERS

SIGNIFICANTLY LOWER THAN THOSE THAT YOUR RESEARCH

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 389

WOULD SHOW?

A. THEY ARE. THEY'RE DEFINITELY LOWER THAN SOME OF

THE NUMBERS THAT I'VE CALCULATED.

Q. OKAY. DO YOU HAVE ANOTHER PAGE, OR DO YOU JUST

HAVE THE SINGLE PAGE?

A. THAT'S IT.

Q. THAT'S FINE. I'D LIKE YOU TO LOOK AT CRAFT

NUMBER TEN.

(THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.)

Q. OKAY. DO YOU HAVE THE WHOLE FILE, DR. CRAFT?

A. I THINK I DO.

Q. OKAY. WHAT FILE IS THIS?

A. THIS IS -- IF I AM CORRECT, THIS IS THE

VEGETATION -- THE DEPARTMENT OF VEGETATION PLOTS

ON THE GRADIENT.

Q. OKAY. IT SAYS SPECIAL COMPOSITION, 1992.

A. SPECIES COMPOSITION.

Q. OH. I'M SORRY, SPECIES. YOU'RE RIGHT. I READ IT

WRONG. I'D LIKE YOU TO TURN TO THE FIRST PAGE IN

THAT FILE AND IF YOU WOULD EXPLAIN TO ME WHAT THIS

DATA REPRESENTS?

A. WE WERE TRYING TO SET UP AN EXPERIMENT. WE WERE

THINKING ABOUT SETTING UP AN EXPERIMENT LOOKING AT

THE EFFECTS OF WATER LEVEL AND PHOSPHORUS ON --

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 390

AND FIRE -- ON A CONTROL OF CATTAIL IN

CONSERVATION AREA 2A. THESE ARE OUR PERMANENT

EIGHTEEN PLOTS. THIS IS P CONCENTRATION AND PEAT

DEPOSITED OVER THE PAST TWENTY-FIVE YEARS FROM MY

PAPER. THIS IS SOME WATER LEVEL DATA FROM THOSE

SAME PLOTS. I THINK THIS IS THE AVERAGE WATER

LEVEL FOR A YEAR PERIOD THAT DR. QUALLS COLLECTED.

AND THIS IS THE RELATIVE -- THE PERCENTS SAWGRASS

AND PERCENT CATTAIL FROM DATA THAT I COLLECTED AT

EACH OF THE PLOTS. AND WE WERE GOING TO USE THIS

TO TRY TO DETERMINE WHERE TO SET UP THESE -- THESE

PLOTS.

Q. ALL RIGHT. HAS DR. QUALLS BEEN COLLECTING WATER

LEVEL DATA FOR A YEAR?

A. YES, AND PERHAPS LONGER.

Q. HOW LONG DO YOU THINK HE'S BEEN COLLECTING IT?

A. I DON'T KNOW. YOU WOULD HAVE TO TALK HIM ABOUT

THAT. AND I'M SURE YOU'LL GET YOUR CHANCE

TOMORROW, SO.

Q. BUT THERE'S BEEN NO CORRELATION BETWEEN THOSE

WATER LEVELS PRIOR TO NOW AND YOUR OTHER WORK

ALONG THE GRADIENT?

A. I TOOK THESE WATER LEVELS AND TRIED TO CORRELATE

THEM TO THE PEAT ACCRETION RATES AND NUTRIENT

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 391

ACCUMULATION RATES ON THE GRADIENT, BUT THERE WAS

NO CORRELATION ESSENTIALLY.

Q. HAVE YOU DRAWN ANY CONCLUSIONS FROM LOOKING AT

THIS DATA?

A. IN TERMS OF -- REPHRASE THE QUESTION, PLEASE.

Q. IN LOOKING AT THIS DATA, DO YOU DRAW ANY

CONCLUSIONS REGARDING, LET'S SAY, EVEN THE WETNESS

OR THE DRYNESS OF YOUR TRANSECT?

A. WELL, IT BASICALLY APPEARS THAT THE "A" TRANSECT

IS A LITTLE BIT WETTER, BUT THIS IS A YEAR'S WORTH

OF DATA. AND ACTUALLY WHEN WE DID THE CORRELATION

ANALYSIS, THERE WAS NO CORRELATION WITH DISTANCE

OR ALONG THE TRANSECT.

Q. DO YOU THINK THAT "A" IS ONLY A LITTLE BIT WETTER

THAN "D"?

A. WELL, WHAT I'M SAYING IS STATISTICALLY I RECALL,

ALTHOUGH I'M NOT A HUNDRED PERCENT SURE, THAT

THERE WAS A NOT A GOOD CORRELATION BETWEEN WATER

LEVEL AND DISTANCE OR TRANSECT. BUT, AGAIN, I

WOULD HAVE TO GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE CORRELATION

MATRIX.

Q. WHAT ABOUT CORRELATION BETWEEN THE WATER LEVEL AND

THE CATTAIL PERCENTAGE OR THE VEGETATION?

A. DOES NOT APPEAR TO BE A GOOD CORRELATION THERE.

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 392

Q. OKAY. HAVE YOU WRITTEN UP YOUR EXPERIMENT?

A. NO. THIS IS -- HAS JUST SORT OF -- THIS IS, I

THINK, THE EXTENT OF IT REALLY. THERE MAY BE A

PARAGRAPH OR A PAGE IN HERE RELATING TO IT, BUT

THERE MAY NOT EVEN BE THAT.

Q. DO YOU KNOW IF THERE ARE ANY PLANS TO CONTINUE

THIS DATA COLLECTION?

A. AT THE GRADIENT?

Q. RIGHT.

A. YOU MEAN LIKE WATER LEVEL?

Q. RIGHT.

A. I THINK THERE HAS BEEN TALK OF CONTINUING IT, BUT,

AGAIN, I HAVE NOT BEEN INVOLVED IN THAT, SO.

Q. OKAY. IS THERE ANY TALK OF SETTING UP THE

EXPERIMENT THAT YOU ASKED FOR?

A. THAT, I THINK, WE MAY DO. IT'S CERTAINLY ON THE

DRAWING BOARD AND HAS BEEN TALKED ABOUT.

Q. DO YOU PLAN TO ADD ANY OF THE SECOND YEAR DATA TO

PUT TOGETHER WITH THE WATER LEVELS?

A. CERTAINLY. THE MORE WATER LEVEL DATA WE HAVE, THE

BETTER, I FEEL LIKE.

Q. OKAY. ARE THESE RESULTS REFLECTED IN YOUR DRAFT

NUMBER SIXTEEN?

A. THE P IS, BUT THE WATER LEVEL WE DID NOT INCLUDE

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 393

BECAUSE THERE WAS NO CORRELATION. WE COULDN'T --

WE HAD HOPED TO RELATE WATER LEVEL TO THE -- TO

INCREASED PEAT ACCRETION. BUT AGAIN I FEEL LIKE A

YEAR'S WORTH OF WATER LEVEL DATA IS JUST NOT

SUFFICIENT.

Q. WHAT DO THE ASTERISKS MEAN?

A. I THINK THOSE ARE AREAS WHERE WE POTENTIALLY WOULD

TRY TO SET UP OUR PLOTS.

Q. YOU MEAN PERMANENT PLOTS FOR CORRELATING WATER

LEVEL WITH---

A. NO. TO LOOK AT THE EFFECTS OF P WATER LEVEL AND

FIRE ON SAWGRASS AND CATTAIL.

Q. OKAY. WHY ARE YOU CHOOSING THESE SITES?

A. WELL, I THINK THERE ARE -- THEY'RE CHARACTERIZED

BY -- SOME OF THEM HAVE HIGH PE AND HIGH WATER

LEVEL; SOME OF THEM HAVE LOW PE AND HIGH WATER

LEVEL. AND, OF COURSE, WE WERE TRYING TO FIND

THAT RIGHT MIX OF CATTAIL AND SAWGRASS, TOO, I

THINK.

Q. DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHEN THIS EXPERIMENT MIGHT BE

FIRMED UP AND PRESENTED IN THE FORM OF A PROPOSAL

OR---

A. IT WOULD BE IN THE SPRING. I MEAN, I SEE -- IF

THIS GOES THROUGH, WE WOULD PROBABLY TRY TO SET IT

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 394

UP NEXT SUMMER.

Q. YOU WOULD START THE ACTUAL DATA COLLECTION NEXT

SUMMER?

A. NO. THE PREPARING THE SITES. AND PROBABLY THE

DATA COLLECTION WOULD NOT START UNTIL LATE SUMMER

OR EVEN EARLY FALL. AGAIN, WE HAVEN'T -- WE'VE

TALKED ABOUT THIS, AND THIS IS THE EXTENT OF IT,

BUT WE HAVEN'T REALLY---

Q. CAN YOU FIND ANY LOW P AND CATTAIL ON HERE FOR ME,

DR. CRAFT?

A. NO, YOU CANNOT FIND ANY IN THAT.

Q. DOES THAT TELL YOU ANYTHING?

A. IT DOES SUGGEST SOMETHING, YES.

Q. WHAT?

A. IT SUGGESTS THAT MAYBE NUTRIENT ENRICHMENT OR

PHOSPHORUS ENRICHMENT PLAYS A ROLE IN THE CATTAIL

EXPANSION. BUT, AGAIN, I DO THINK WATER LEVEL IS

SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED.

Q. ALL RIGHT. YOU HAVE -- FOLLOWING THAT PAGE, YOU

HAVE A GRAPH AND THEN YOU HAVE -- I GUESS THERE --

YOU HAVE A SUMMARY OF SOME PERCENTAGES OF CATTAIL,

SAWGRASS, OTHER, FROM JULY '89---

A. I SEE IT.

Q. ---IS THIS YOUR---

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 395

A. THAT'S MY WRITING, YES.

Q. IT IS YOUR WRITING. BUT DID YOU COMPILE THESE

NUMBERS OR NOT?

A. NO, I COMPILED THEM.

Q. YOU DID?

A. YES.

Q. YOU ACTUALLY WENT OUT AND LOOKED AT THE

VEGETATION?

A. RIGHT. THIS IS JUST A SUMMARY FROM SOME OF THIS

OTHER STUFF.

Q. OKAY. OKAY. AND THEN FOLLOWING THAT, YOU HAVE

GRADIENT STUDY, VEGETATION SAMPLING. I GUESS

THESE ARE LIKE FIELD NOTES. IS THAT WHAT THEY

ARE?

A. THIS IS THE ACTUAL DATA SHEETS WHERE WE

DETERMINED, YOU KNOW, THE PERCENTAGE CATTAIL,

SAWGRASS, AND OTHER VEGETATION AT EACH OF THE

POINTS.

Q. THIS IS YOUR CONTINUING STUDY, IS THAT RIGHT?

A. IN TERMS OF THIS -- THESE CHANGES IN SPECIES

COMPOSITION ON THE GRADIENT, YES.

Q. JUST SO I'M CLEAR, IS THIS THE VEGETATION STUDY

THAT CONTINUES THROUGH TIME OR NOT?

A. RIGHT, RIGHT.

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 396

Q. OKAY. OKAY. I'D LIKE TO KNOW WHAT THE

RELATIONSHIP -- IF YOU MOVE THROUGH THIS FILE, I

THINK YOU SEE -- OH, NO -- WELL, IT'S NOT THIS

FILE, I'M WRONG. IT'S THE NEXT ONE WE'RE GOING TO

GET TO. I WANT TO WAIT TILL WE GET THERE. DO YOU

HAVE ANY CONCLUSIONS FROM THIS, PRESENTLY, FROM

THIS WORK?

A. I DON'T REALLY HAVE ANY CONCLUSIONS, I HAVEN'T

WRITTEN IT UP. MAYBE IN NEXT YEAR'S REPORT

WE'LL -- WE'LL HAVE A SMALL -- SMALL CHAPTER.

AGAIN, THE PROBLEM WITH THIS KIND OF DATA, I THINK

IT'S USEFUL AND PROVIDES INFORMATION, BUT BY

ITSELF, YOU REALLY CAN'T -- YOU CAN'T DO A WHOLE

LOT WITH IT IN TERMS OF TRYING TO WRITE IT UP AS A

SCIENTIFIC PAPER. IF I HAD SOME MORE INFORMATION

ON PLANT COMMUNITIES OUT THERE, I COULD MAYBE DO

SOMETHING WITH IT.

Q. WHAT KIND OF INFORMATION WOULD YOU NEED?

A. WELL, WE HAVE THE N AND P CONTENT OF THE SHOOTS

AND THE ROOTS OF PLANTS ON THESE TRANSECTS AND

THAT HELPS. BUT WHAT, I THINK, IS REALLY MISSING

WOULD BE SOME ESTIMATE OF PRODUCTIVITY AT EACH OF

THE POINTS OF EITHER STANDING CROP BIOMASS OR

PHOTOSYNTHESIS RATE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 397

Q. OKAY. AND WHY CAN'T YOU GET THAT KIND OF

INFORMATION?

A. BASICALLY, I JUST DON'T HAVE THE TIME TO GO OUT

AND DO IT. THIS WOULD INVOLVE -- I MEAN, I'VE

THOUGHT ABOUT HOW TO DO, CLIPPING FOUR PLOTS AT

EACH OF THE POINTS WHICH QUICKLY GIVES ME

SEVENTY-TWO CLIP PLOTS, WHICH REALLY THE

COMBINATION OF THE ACCRETION WORK AND THE

FERTILIZER STUDY TAKE UP JUST SO MUCH OF MY TIME.

AGAIN, I THINK THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE

WORTH DOING. PERHAPS YOU CAN RECOMMEND A GRADUATE

STUDENT WHO WOULD BE INTERESTED IN DOING A

MASTER'S THESIS ON SOMETHING LIKE THIS.

Q. I THINK I'M A GROWTH INDUSTRY ALREADY.

MR. GREEN: THAT'S DEBATABLE.

Q. I HAVE, I THINK, SOME MORE QUESTIONS ALONG THAT

LINE, BUT LET ME GET TO THEM. I'D LIKE YOU TO

LOOK AT CRAFT NUMBER FOURTEEN.

(THEREUPON, DOCUMENT GIVEN TO WITNESS.)

Q. THIS IS THE WHOLE FILE, DR. CRAFT, IF YOU WOULD

LIKE TO TAKE A SECOND AND LOOK AT IT.

A. OKAY.

(THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.)

Q. WHAT FILE IS THIS, DR. CRAFT?

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 398

A. WHAT IS THE TITLE ON THAT?

Q. IT SAYS PAREN (TP) -- END OF PAREN -- VERSUS

PHOSPHORUS ACCUMULATIONS.

A. THAT'S JUST A FILE THAT CONTAINS INFORMATION ON

TRYING TO DETERMINE THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN

PHOSPHORUS AND SURFACE WATERS AND PHOSPHORUS

ACCUMULATION IN THE SOIL.

Q. ALL RIGHT. I'D LIKE YOU TO LOOK AT THE ONE SET OF

DATA THAT I REPRODUCED FOR YOU. WOULD YOU EXPLAIN

TO ME WHAT THESE DATA REFLECT?

A. OKAY. THE P ACCUMULATION DATA IS FROM THE

MANUSCRIPT ON PEAT ACCRETION AND NUTRIENT

ACCUMULATION ALONG THE EUTROPHICATION GRADIENT AND

SO ON AND SO FORTH. THE REGRESSION EQUATION AT

THE TOP IS FROM THE SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT

DISTRICT THAT PREDICTS SURFACE WATER TOTAL P WITH

DISTANCE FROM THE HILLSBORO CANAL. AND WHAT I WAS

TRYING TO DO WAS EXTRAPOLATE THEIR EQUATION TO GET

AN ESTIMATE OF WHAT PHOSPHORUS CONCENTRATION IS AT

OUR SAMPLING POINTS DOWN STREAM FROM THE CANAL AND

TRY TO RELATE TP VERSUS P ACCUMULATION.

Q. OKAY. ARE THOSE ACTUAL TOTAL PHOSPHORUS NUMBERS

THAT ARE REFLECTED, THE .137 AND THE .083?

A. THESE ARE CALCULATED FROM---

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 399

Q. OKAY.

A. ---THE EQUATION AT THE TOP.

Q. OKAY. OKAY. I GUESS SO THEN MY NEXT QUESTION IS,

HAVE YOU SEEN A .003 PARTS PER BILLION NUMBER AT

TEN KILOMETERS?

A. NO. IT'S JUST A CALCULATED NUMBER.

Q. OKAY. OKAY. BUT THE PHOSPHORUS NUMBERS -- THE

PHOSPHORUS ACCUMULATION NUMBERS ARE THE ACCRETION

RATES AS REFLECTED IN THAT CRAFT NUMBER FIVE?

A. RIGHT, YES---

Q. ALL RIGHT.

A. ---OR SIXTEEN, WHICHEVER ONE IT IS. IT'S THE ONE

IN CONSERVATION AREA 2A.

Q. WHAT'S THE MAXIMUM ACCRETION RATE UNDER YOUR P

ACCRETION?

A. THE MAXIMUM IN TERMS OF WHAT WAS THE HIGHEST RATE

THAT WE MEASURED?

Q. WELL, YOU GAVE -- I KNOW IN SOME OF YOUR PAPERS

YOU HAD THE MAXIMUM AND THEN YOU HAD -- YOU HAD

THE MINIMUM. I GUESS I CAN FIND ONE AND SHOW YOU,

BUT -- AND THEN YOU HAD AVERAGES -- YOU HAD

AVERAGE AND MAXIMUM IN ONE OF YOUR PAPERS.

A. OKAY. THE HIGHEST THAT WE MEASURED -- AND

ACTUALLY THESE NUMBERS HERE THE THIRD COLUMN OF P

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 400

ACCUMULATION NUMBERS HAVE BEEN REVISED DOWNWARD

BECAUSE WE USED THE INCORRECT BULK DENSITY NUMBERS

TO CALCULATE THESE, AND SO -- I THINK THE HIGHEST

RATE -- AND AGAIN I'D HAVE TO LOOK AT THE MOST

RECENT COPY -- IT MAY BE THIS .85 GRAMS PER METER

SQUARED PER YEAR AT -- IN THE MIDDLE ONE. BUT,

AGAIN, I WOULD LIKE -- I'D HAVE TO LOOK TO MAKE

SURE. IT'S SOMEWHERE AROUND .8 TO .85.

Q. OKAY. I THINK YOU TOLD ME YESTERDAY ABOUT THE

INCORRECT BULK DENSITIES BEING ONE OF THE ISSUES

THAT YOU'RE GOING TO CORRECT IN WHAT IS THE FINAL

ANNUAL REPORT FOR '92, AND I THINK I WAS

BRAIN-DEAD LONG BEFORE THAT AND I DIDN'T ASK YOU

VERY MUCH ABOUT IT. I DON'T THINK YOU EXPLAINED

THAT TO ME YESTERDAY -- DID YOU -- WHAT WAS WRONG

WITH YOUR BULK DENSITY NUMBERS?

A. I JUST SAID THEY WERE CALCULATED INCORRECTLY.

Q. OKAY. CAN WE TAKE THE ANNUAL REPORT -- THE '92

ANNUAL REPORT, AND ARE YOU ABLE TO EXPLAIN TO ME

WHAT YOU DID WRONG AND HOW YOU'LL BE CHANGING

THEM?

A. OKAY. THEY HAVE BEEN CHANGED, AND I THINK---

Q. ARE THEY CORRECT IN HERE?

A. ---THE CORRECT ONES -- NOT IN THE REPORT, BUT IN

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 401

THE DRAFT VERSION THAT YOU TOOK OUT OF ONE OF THE

FOLDERS -- NUMBER FIVE OR NUMBER SIXTEEN.

Q. ALL RIGHT. LET'S JUST IDENTIFY THEM AND MAKE SURE

I UNDERSTAND---

A. WHICHEVER ONE---

Q. HERE'S NUMBER SIXTEEN---

A. OKAY. IT'S IN THIS ONE.

Q. OKAY. IT'S IN SIXTEEN?

A. WELL, LET ME MAKE SURE THAT THIS -- I THINK WE DID

CORRECT FOR THESE BEFORE YOU ALL COPIED THIS, BUT

I DO WANT TO MAKE SURE.

Q. AND HERE'S NUMBER FIVE, IF YOU NEED NUMBER FIVE.

A. OKAY. FIVE IS NOT IT---

Q. FIVE IS NOT IT?

A. ---IT'S IN SIXTEEN. OKAY, THIS, YOU'LL SEE IT WAS

ON THE "A" TRANSECT AND THE BULK DENSITIES WERE

NOT CALCULATED RIGHT. BUT IN THIS DRAFT, THEY ARE

CORRECT, AND WHAT YOU CAN DO IS COMPARE THESE

NUMBERS WITH THE ANNUAL REPORT NUMBERS, IF YOU

LOOK AT THE BULK DENSITIES. ON THAT "A" LINE,

YOU'LL FIND THAT THEY'RE HIGHER IN THAT ONE THAN

THEY ARE -- THEY'RE HIGHER IN THE ANNUAL REPORT

THAN THEY ARE IN THIS NUMBER SIXTEEN.

Q. AND HOW DID YOU CALCULATE THEM INCORRECTLY?

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 402

A. THERE IS A MOISTURE CORRECTION FACTOR THAT YOU

USE. WE DO OUR ANALYSIS ON AN AIR-DRIED SAMPLES

AND THE -- YOU USE A RATIO, AIR-DRIED WEIGHT TO

OVEN-DRIED WEIGHT, AND WE GOT IT REVERSED, AND SO

IT TENDED TO OVER ESTIMATE THE BULK DENSITY. AND

SO WHEN THEY'RE CALCULATED CORRECTLY -- THIS WAS

ONLY ON THE "A" TRANSECT -- THEY WERE REVISED

DOWNWARD.

Q. AND THAT WOULD INCREASE YOUR ACCRETION?

A. NO, IT WOULD TEND TO DECREASE---

Q. DECREASE.

A. ---THE RATES OF ACCUMULATION. IT OVERESTIMATED

THEM IN THE ANNUAL REPORT, AND IN THE REVISED

VERSION THEY HAVE COME -- THEY ARE SOMEWHAT

LESS.

Q. YOU HAVE, FOLLOWING THAT CHART -- AND I DON'T

THINK I REPRODUCED ALL THIS. IT DIDN'T SEEM

WORTHWHILE.

MR. BURGESS: I'M SORRY, COUNSELOR,

WHAT EXHIBIT?

A. WHAT NUMBER, PLEASE?

Q. I'M STILL ON CRAFT FOURTEEN.

A. OKAY, I DON'T HAVE IT.

Q. DR. CRAFT, YOU DON'T HAVE IT, BUT I CAN SHOW

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 403

YOU. YOU HAVE -- FOLLOWING THESE DATA, YOU HAVE

SOME EXHIBITS THAT I DON'T BELIEVE ARE YOURS, IS

THAT CORRECT---

A. THAT'S CORRECT.

Q. ---LET ME JUST SHOW THEM TO YOU?

A. THAT'S CORRECT.

Q. DO YOU KNOW WHOSE THEY ARE?

A. THEY ARE EITHER THE DISTRICTS, OR I THINK

DR. WALKER'S WORK.

Q. OKAY. ONE OF THEM APPEARS TO BE DR. WALKER'S,

AND I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS DR. KADLEC'S OR

DR. WALKER'S.

A. OKAY.

Q. CAN YOU TELL ME WHY YOU HAVE THESE?

A. AGAIN, DR. RICHARDSON PASSES INFORMATION ON TO ME

THAT HE THINKS I MIGHT FIND OF USE OR HELPFUL OR

INTERESTING. AND SO, AGAIN, I DID NOT -- HE DID

NOT ASK ME TO REVIEW ANY OF THAT KIND OF

INFORMATION, THOUGH.

Q. OKAY. DID YOU ACTUALLY READ THROUGH THE STUFF?

A. WELL, I LOOKED THROUGH IT. I'M NOT A MODELER, SO

A LOT OF THAT I'M NOT SURE IF I REALLY UNDERSTOOD

IT, SO -- I THINK CONCEPTIONALLY I UNDERSTAND IT,

BUT I'M NOT A COMPUTER MODELER SO I'M THE WRONG

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 404

PERSON TO ASK ABOUT THAT---

Q. BELIEVE ME, I DON'T INTEND TO TRY.

A. ---YOU'D GET NOTHING OUT OF ME, NOT BECAUSE I

DON'T WANT TO, BUT BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING

ABOUT IT.

Q. I'D LIKE TO LOOK AT CRAFT NUMBER THIRTY. I THINK

THIS WAS REPRINTED IN FULL FOR YOU, THE WHOLE

EXHIBIT, IS IT NOT? YEAH.

A. I BELIEVE SO, YES.

Q. OKAY. WAS THIS PAPER PRESENTED AT A INTERNATIONAL

SYMPOSIUM ON CONSTRUCTIVE WETLAND?

A. I BELIEVE SO. THIS IS A PAPER THAT DR. RICHARDSON

TOOK THE LEAD ON.

Q. OKAY. SO, IN OTHER WORDS, SINCE HIS NAME IS

FIRST, THEN HE TOOK THE LEAD, HE AUTHORED THIS?

A. HE WAS CERTAINLY THE PRIMARY AUTHOR. I MEAN, I

WOULD REVIEW IT FOR HIM, BUT---

Q. OKAY. WHEN YOU COME TO THE CONCLUSIONS ON PAGE 14

AND 15, YOU SEE AT THE BOTTOM RIGHT BEFORE IT SAYS

"CONCLUSIONS" SORT OF AS A TITLE?

A. YES.

Q. AND IT TALKS ABOUT WETLANDS CONTAINING PEAT SOILS

ARE NOT EFFICIENT SINKS FOR PHOSPHORUS ESPECIALLY

UNDER HIGH LOADING RATES. CAN YOU DEFINE FOR ME

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 405

WHAT A HIGH LOADING RATE IS?

A. I REALLY CAN'T DEFINE IT. THAT'S -- AGAIN, HE

TOOK THE LEAD AND WAS, YOU KNOW, THE SENIOR AUTHOR

ON THIS.

Q. OKAY. WE'LL JUST HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL JANUARY.

A. YEAH. I JUST DON'T KNOW. DR. RICHARDSON HAS HAD

A LOT MORE EXPERIENCE WORKING WITH WETLANDS AND

PHOSPHORUS THAN I HAVE.

Q. OKAY. DO YOU THINK THAT -- DO YOU THINK THERE'S

A BETTER WAY, DR. CRAFT, TO CONTROL THIS

PHOSPHORUS COMING OUT OF THE EAA INTO THE WATER

CONSERVATION AREAS THAN SOME TYPE OF A

CONSTRUCTIVE WETLAND?

A. I DON'T KNOW. I KNOW THERE HAVE BEEN SOME OTHER

ALTERNATIVES THAT HAVE BEEN LOOKED AT, BUT, AGAIN,

I DON'T KNOW HOW EFFECTIVE SOME OF THOSE WOULD BE

EITHER. I THINK ONE WAS THAT AQUIFER STORAGE.

AND RECOVERY WAS ONE MECHANISM. AND ADDING, I

THINK, CALCIUM CARBONATE TO TRY TO PRECIPITATE

PHOSPHORUS IS ANOTHER ONE. I THINK IT IS

CERTAINLY WORTHWHILE TO LOOK AT A LOT OF DIFFERENT

ALTERNATIVES. AND CERTAINLY CONSTRUCTIVE WETLANDS

ARE A POTENTIALLY GOOD, YOU KNOW, ALTERNATIVE,

TOO, SO.

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 406

Q. OKAY. ARE WETLANDS CONTAINING PEAT EFFICIENT

SINKS FOR PHOSPHORUS UNDER THE LOADING RATES THAT

WATER CONSERVATION AREA 2A RECEIVES?

A. I THINK ACCORDING TO MY PAPERS, I SAY SOMETHING TO

THAT EFFECT AT THE CURRENT LOADING RATES.

Q. AND THAT'S THAT CONCERN I'M NEVER QUITE CLEAR ON,

WHY YOU'RE SO CONCERNED ABOUT THEM INCREASING. DO

YOU HAVE REASON TO BELIEVE THEY WILL INCREASE?

A. NO. BUT I UNDERSTAND THAT RAINFALL IN FLORIDA,

YOU KNOW, CAN VARY FROM THIRTY INCHES ONE YEAR TO

SEVENTY OR EIGHTY IN ANOTHER YEAR, AND THAT JUST

MEANS MORE WATER IN ONE OF THOSE HEAVY RAINFALL

YEARS. AND, YOU KNOW, THERE'S -- IT'S DIFFICULT

TO HOLD THAT WATER, IT'S GOING TO HAVE TO MOVE

INTO -- THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO PUMP IT INTO THE

WCA'S. WATER'S -- YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES THERE'S TOO

MUCH DOWN THERE, AND SOMETIMES THERE DOESN'T JUST

SEEM TO BE ENOUGH, SO.

Q. ON PAGE 16 IN THE "ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS," WAS THIS

WRITTEN BY DR. RICHARDSON?

Q. ON---

A. YES. IS THERE A TABLE NUMBER?

Q. PARDON?

A. DO YOU HAVE A TABLE NUMBER?

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 407

Q. I'M -- I JUST SORT OF THINK -- I THINK I JUST WENT

"UM." ON PAGES 24 AND 25---

A. OKAY.

Q. ---YOU HAVE THE MAXIMUM PHOSPHORUS ACCUMULATION

BEING .63, IS THAT RIGHT?

A. YES, BASED ON -- AGAIN, THIS WAS PRELIMINARY DATA

WHEN THIS WAS WRITTEN UP.

Q. OKAY. HOW MANY CORES WAS THIS BASED ON -- THE

NEXT PAGE, THE FORTY AVERAGE AND THE SIXTY-THREE

MAXIMUM -- HOW MANY CORES ARE WE TALKING ABOUT TO

COME UP WITH THESE NUMBERS?

MR. GREEN: EXCUSE ME, COUNSEL, WE

DON'T HAVE THAT MANY PAGES, IS THAT -- I

DON'T HAVE---

MS. PONZOLI: IT WAS NOT A DELIBERATE

OVERSIGHT. I DON'T KNOW.

MR. GREEN: I'M NOT SUGGESTING IT WAS,

I JUST DON'T HAVE IT. WHAT---

MS. PONZOLI: IT WAS TAGGED. SO,

NORMALLY, WE WOULD HAVE MADE A COPY OF

THAT LAST -- TABLE NUMBER 4, MR. GREEN.

YOU DIDN'T GET IT?

MR. GREEN: I DON'T THINK SO. I'LL

LOOK ON.

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 408

MS. PONZOLI: WE GAVE THE DISTRICT A

COPY, BUT NOT THE COOPERATIVE.

MR. GREEN: THAT APPARENTLY IS THE

CASE.

MR. BURGESS: ON PURPOSE, NO DOUBT.

MS. PONZOLI: BUT WE GAVE THE LEAD ONE.

MR. GRIMSHAW: NO, I HAD IT COPIED

MYSELF.

MR. GREEN: WE DON'T ALWAYS HAVE THE

SAME THINGS THAT THE LEAD HAS.

MS. PONZOLI: NOR DO WE.

Q. (BY MS. PONZOLI) SO, HOW MANY CORES DID YOU SAY?

I'M SORRY, WE GOT DIVERTED.

A. I HAVEN'T SAID YET. THE MAXIMUM IS JUST THE ONE

CORE; THAT WAS THE CORE THAT HAD THE HIGHEST RATE.

Q. OKAY.

A. AND THE MEAN, IF I GO BACK TO LOOK AT THE METHODS

HERE, IS BASED ON FIVE CORES.

Q. SO, THE FORTY IS BASED ON FIVE?

A. YES.

Q. OKAY. AND WHAT TYPE -- ENRICHED OR UNENRICHED

SITES?

A. THEY ARE ALL FROM ENRICHED. AS YOU CAN SEE TO THE

LEFT THERE, IT SAYS NUTRIENT ENRICHED.

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 409

Q. OKAY. WHERE AM I -- WHERE AM I MISSING IT -- TO

THE LEFT, IT SAYS NUTRIENT ENRICHED?

A. ON TABLE 3. OH, I'M BACK ON TABLE 3. IT'S THE

SAME NUMBERS, I THINK.

Q. RIGHT.

A. ---AND IT SAYS, MEAN FOR 2A, (NUTRIENT ENRICHED)

IN PARENTHESIS.

Q. OKAY. OKAY. SO, THE FORTY IS BASED ON FIVE CORES

IN AN ENRICHED SITE; AND THE SIXTY-THREE IS BASED

ON ONE CORE IN A -- I CAN'T REMEMBER -- WAS IT

UNENRICHED OR ENRICHED?

A. NO. IT'S ENRICHED. THAT WAS THE HIGHEST CORE --

HIGHEST RATE OF ACCUMULATION IN THE ENRICHED ZONE

OF THOSE FIVE.

Q. OKAY. NOW, YOU SAY THIS WAS PRELIMINARY DATA.

AND I GUESS WE HAVE MORE DATA NOW.

A. RIGHT.

Q. HAVE YOUR NUMBERS CHANGED BASED ON MORE DATA?

A. THE AVERAGE NOW IS AROUND .45.

Q. OKAY.

A. AND, AGAIN, IT MIGHT BE .44; IT MIGHT BE .46.

Q. RIGHT.

A. SO, IT'S GONE UP A LITTLE BIT. AND THE HIGHEST

ONE HAS GONE UP TO ABOUT .80 OF THE CORES THAT WE

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 410

HAVE COLLECTED.

Q. OKAY. DOES THAT ALTER THE NUMBERS THAT YOU WOULD

NEED IN SIZING IN HECTARES FOR A CLEAN-UP AREA TO

DO THE JOB THAT WAS DESCRIBED?

A. IN TERMS OF THE -- IT TENDS TO BRING THEM UP A

LITTLE BIT. IT TENDS TO -- THE ACCUMULATION RATE

TENDS TO COME UP A LITTLE BIT, A LITTLE BIT

HIGHER, SO THE ACREAGE WOULD GO DOWN A LITTLE

BIT.

Q. DO YOU KNOW ABOUT WHAT PERCENTAGE?

A. I WOULD JUST -- I WOULD HAVE TO LOOK AT THE

INFORMATION TO SEE. BUT IF IT WENT FROM .40 TO

.45, THAT'S ABOUT, YOU KNOW, TWELVE PERCENT (12%)

OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, TEN -- TEN TO TWELVE

PERCENT (10% TO 12%).

Q. OKAY. WE'RE GETTING CLOSER TOGETHER.

A. I DON'T THINK WE WERE EVER THAT FAR APART, TO

BEGIN WITH.

Q. YOU WOULDN'T BELIEVE IT LOOKING AROUND THIS TABLE.

A. I KNOW.

Q. I'D LIKE TO ASK YOU ABOUT CRAFT NUMBER EIGHTEEN.

(THEREUPON, DOCUMENT GIVEN TO DR. CRAFT.)

Q. AND I THINK IN CRAFT EIGHTEEN, IT'S A LARGER FILE

AGAIN, DR. CRAFT, DATA AND STATISTICS, AND I HAVE

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 411

PULLED JUST A SINGLE PAGE TO QUESTION YOU ON.

AND IF YOU WANT TO -- IF YOU THINK THERE IS

ANYTHING ELSE IN HERE YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT,

PLEASE FEEL FREE -- I'LL HAND YOU MY COPY -- BUT

I ONLY HAD QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS ONE PAGE.

A. OKAY.

Q. WHAT DOES THIS REPRESENT, THIS DATA?

A. I BELIEVE THIS IS THE WATER LEVEL DATA THAT WE

TALKED ABOUT EARLIER THAT DR. QUALLS COLLECTED,

THE SAME -- I'M PRETTY SURE IT'S THE SAME NUMBERS.

AND, AGAIN, I WAS TRYING TO RELATE INCREASED PEAT

ACCRETION TO WATER LEVEL.

Q. DID YOU DRAW ANY CONCLUSIONS FROM THAT?

A. THERE WAS NO CLEAR RELATIONSHIP. AND, AGAIN, I

THINK, ONE YEAR OF WATER LEVEL DATA IS JUST NOT

ENOUGH.

Q. ARE YOU SURE THAT OTHER WATER LEVEL DATA WAS '91?

I JUST CAN'T REMEMBER IF IT WAS '91 OR '92.

A. I DIDN'T HAVE A DATE ON THAT, BUT I THINK IF YOU

WENT BACK AND LOOKED, YOU'D SEE THE NUMBERS ARE

THE SAME NUMBERS.

Q. OKAY. DO YOU CONSIDER 3.7 AN ENHANCED

HYDROPERIOD? IF YOU LOOK DOWN UNDER 10D1---

A. NO, NO.

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 412

Q. ---IT'S GOT 3.7.

A. I MEAN, IT'S RELATIVE TO THE OTHER ONES. IT'S

CERTAINLY DRIER THAN THE OTHER ONES.

Q. OKAY. CRAFT NUMBER EIGHT IS THE NEXT ONE I WOULD

LIKE TO ASK YOU ABOUT AND AGAIN I PROBABLY HAVE

ONLY REPRODUCED A SINGLE PAGE THAT I'D LIKE TO --

WELL, NO, I THINK THE WHOLE FILE MAY HAVE BEEN

DONE FOR YOU.

A. I HAVE QUITE A BIT.

Q. OKAY. THIS FILE IS ENTITLED "EVERGLADES

COORDINATES." WHAT IS THIS FILE?

A. THESE ARE THE LATITUDINAL AND LONGITUDINAL

COORDINATES FOR OUR -- FOR THE VARIOUS SAMPLING

POINTS.

Q. THESE HAVE EXISTED THROUGH TIME FOR HOW LONG NOW?

HOW LONG HAVE YOU HAD THESE ESTABLISHED?

A. THE PLOTS?

Q. RIGHT.

A. THESE HERE WERE ESTABLISHED, I BELIEVE, IN JANUARY

OF 1991. I THINK THAT'S RIGHT---

Q. DO YOU HAVE A---

A. ---NO, NO, WAIT A MINUTE LET ME BACKUP---

MS. PONZOLI: ARE YOU LOOKING FOR

THE EXHIBIT, MR. BURGESS?

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 413

MR. BURGESS: YEAH.

MS. PONZOLI: DO YOU WANT US TO WAIT

FOR YOU?

MR. BURGESS: THANK YOU.

A. ---I THINK THEY WERE ESTABLISHED IN JANUARY OF '90

OR SO.

Q. IT'S NUMBER EIGHT. ALL RIGHT, IT STARTS WITH --

ARE THESE -- THESE ARE LORAN READINGS OR GPS, I

DON'T EVEN KNOW.

A. THE MOST RECENT ONES HERE, THE FIRST PAGE, ARE

GPS.

Q. DID YOU -- YOU STARTED WITH LORAN AND THEN

SWITCHED?

A. YES.

Q. DO YOU BELIEVE THAT YOUR SITES ARE PRETTY

ACCURATE?

A. I BELIEVE THAT MAY 25, 1992, ARE PRETTY ACCURATE.

Q. THESE ARE GPS?

A. YES.

Q. I GUESS WHAT I WAS ASKING WAS WHEN YOU SWITCHED

OVER, DO YOU THINK YOU'RE REALLY LOCATING THE SAME

SITES, IS WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY?

A. WELL, WE HAVE -- WE HAD PERMANENT PLOTS SET UP

WITH PVC PIPE AND THOSE SORTS OF THINGS, SO, WE

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 414

KNEW WHEN WE FOUND IT. BUT THE LORAN IS REALLY

NOT -- IT WAS NOT VERY GOOD, SO.

Q. OKAY. I WANT TO GO FIVE PAGES IN, AND THERE'S

SORT OF A BLURRY DRAWING OF THE ENRICHED AREA, I

BELIEVE OF WATER CONSERVATION AREA 2A. WHOSE

DRAWING IS THIS?

A. THIS IS MINE.

Q. OKAY. AND WHAT IS IT REFLECTING?

A. THIS IS -- I THINK, WE TOOK THE VEGETATION DATA

THAT WAS MAPPED BY PAUL LARSON, OR IT WAS FROM THE

DISTRICT -- THE CATTAIL SAWGRASS DISTRIBUTION --

AND JUST TRIED TO OVERLAY OUR PLOTS ON IT TO GET A

RELATIVE IDEA OF WHERE WE WERE.

Q. OKAY. I THINK THERE IS SOME LARSON INFORMATION AS

WE GO FURTHER BACK. I GUESS IT'S IN THIS FILE.

LET'S GO TO THE LETTER FROM MR. LARSON BACK TO

MR. EARL.

A. OKAY.

Q. DR. CRAFT, YOU ARE CC'D ON THIS LETTER ALONG WITH

DR. DAVIS, DR. PATRICK, AND DR. RICHARDSON. HAVE

YOU COORDINATED WITH THESE THREE OTHER GENTLEMEN

IN RELATION TO YOUR WORK IN WATER CONSERVATION

AREA 2A?

A. NO. THIS WAS THE FIRST DAY ON THE JOB, IN FACT,

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 415

OR THE SECOND DAY, AND I WENT OUT IN THE FIELD TO

COLLECT THE CORES, AND ALL THESE FELLOWS WERE

THERE, TOO.

Q. THEY JUST HAPPENED TO BE THERE THE SAME DAY YOU

WERE?

A. NO. I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW WHAT, YOU KNOW, THE

RELATIONSHIP WAS. I WAS HIRED TO LOOK AT PEAT

ACCRETION AND NUTRIENT ACCUMULATION, AND, OF

COURSE, I WAS OUT THERE DOING THE CORE TAKING.

AND I RECALL ONE OF THOSE GUYS -- I THINK JOHN

DAVIS -- WAS OUT THERE AND HAD A MOBILE PHONE AND

WAS STANDING IN THE MIDDLE OF THE EVERGLADES

TALKING ON THE PHONE, WHICH I THOUGHT WAS KIND

OF---

Q. BUT, THIS WAS AT THE TOP OF WATER CONSERVATION

AREA 2A?

A. I RECALL THAT WAS ACTUALLY OUT IN THE SOUTHWEST

PART IN ONE OF -- IN A DRIED UP SLOUGH. THIS

WAS IN, I THINK, THAT 1989 DROUGHT. IT WAS VERY

DRY OUT THERE, YOU COULD WORK IN YOUR TENNIS

SHOES.

Q. SO, YOU WEREN'T WITH THE SIXTEEN FOOT ALLIGATORS

AND JOHN DAVIS?

A. I DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY WERE. I DON'T KNOW IF A

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 416

SIXTEEN FOOT ALLIGATOR COULD EAT HIM.

(THEREUPON, THERE WAS AN

OFF-THE-RECORD DISCUSSION

WHICH WAS NOT REPORTED

BY THE COURT REPORTER.)

Q. (BY MS. PONZOLI) I TAKE IT, THEN, YOU DID NOT GO

ON THE AERIAL TOUR WITH THEM?

A. ON THAT DATE -- ON THOSE DATES, I DID, BECAUSE WE

TOUCHED DOWN IN A LOT OF PLACES, OR IN SEVERAL

PLACES, AND I TOOK SAMPLES.

Q. OKAY. SO, YOU DON'T KNOW WHO SET UP ALL OF YOU TO

GO OUT THERE TOGETHER, IS THAT ACCURATE?

A. THAT'S CORRECT.

Q. ALL RIGHT. BUT YOU WERE IN THE LONG RANGER?

A. WE WERE IN ONE OF THOSE CRESCENT AIRWAY'S

HELICOPTERS. I REMEMBER I WAS MOTION SICK, I

THOUGHT I WAS GOING TO BARF ON SOMEBODY. CURT

CAN ATTEST TO THAT.

Q. I WON'T EVER GO IN A HELICOPTER WITH YOU.

A. I TAKE THOSE PATCHES NOW, AND IT'S A LOT BETTER.

Q. I CAN SEE WHY ACCESSIBILITY WAS IMPORTANT FOR THE

FERTILIZER STUDY.

A. IT'S JUST -- YOU DON'T -- IT'S HARD -- YOU DON'T

WANT TO HAVE TO -- IF YOU WANT TO GET WORK DONE,

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 417

YOU DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO DEPEND ON SOMEBODY TO

TAKE YOU IN AN AIR BOAT OR IN A HELICOPTER.

Q. OKAY. SO, YOU DON'T KNOW WHO SET THIS UP, BUT THE

PEOPLE WHO WERE ON THIS TRIP WERE MR. LARSON,

YOURSELF, DR. DAVIS, DR. PATRICK, AND

DR. RICHARDSON?

A. YES. I DON'T -- I REMEMBER EVERYBODY, I THINK,

BUT BILL EARL. THE OTHER THREE PEOPLE, I

DEFINITELY, YOU KNOW, REMEMBER THEM. AND I'M SURE

HE WAS THERE, BUT I CAN'T VISUALIZE HIS FACE.

Q. YOU DON'T REMEMBER MR. EARL?

A. NO. HE'S MAYBE ONE OF THOSE FORGETFUL KIND OF

PEOPLE.

Q. IT'S NOT MY IMPRESSION. ANYWAY, SO YOU -- TELL ME

WHAT YOU DID. YOU SPENT A WHOLE DAY DOING

WHATEVER YOU DID?

A. WE TOUCHED DOWN IN, I THINK, THREE LOCATIONS IN

CONSERVATION AREA 2A, AND I TOOK SOIL SAMPLES. I

THINK WE ALSO TOOK SOME ABOVEGROUND PLANT SAMPLES

OF SAWGRASS AND CATTAIL AND ALSO WE TOOK SOME ROOT

SAMPLES.

Q. WAS ANYONE TAKING SAMPLES OTHER THAN YOURSELF?

A. I DON'T BELIEVE SO. I THINK I WAS -- WELL,

DR. RICHARDSON AND I WERE TAKING THE SAMPLES. BUT

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 418

I THINK BEYOND US TWO, I DON'T THINK SO.

Q. OKAY. YOU TOOK SOIL SAMPLES, YOU TOOK VEGETATION

SAMPLES, AND YOU TOOK ROOT SAMPLES?

A. AND WE MAY HAVE TAKEN SOME WATER SAMPLES WHERE WE

COULD FIND WATER, BUT I -- AS I RECALL, IT WAS

REALLY BONE DRY OUT THERE.

Q. OKAY. THREE LOCATIONS, YOU BELIEVE?

A. IN 2A, YES.

Q. UH-HUH (YES). ARE THEY REFLECTED ON THE MAP

THAT'S A COUPLE OF PAGES AHEAD OF THAT ESTABLISHED

9/30/89, SOMETHING ANOTHER -- IS IT RICHARDSON AND

CRAFT?

A. THEY ARE ON ONE OF THESE, AND I CAN PROBABLY FIND

THAT FOR YOU.

(THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.)

A. YEAH, I THINK THAT'S IT. IS THAT FURTHER ALONG---

Q. WELL, WHY---

A. ---TOWARD THE BACK?

Q. ---DON'T YOU JUST LOOK THROUGH IT AND GET

FAMILIAR -- THERE'S A PAGE FOLLOWING -- A COUPLE

OF PAGES BEYOND---

A. THAT'S GOT TO BE---

Q. ---BEYOND THE LETTER.

A. ---BECAUSE THIS WAS ALL ONE BIG HANDOUT. YOU CAN

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 419

SEE A LETTER FROM BILL EARL -- OR NOT BILL EARL,

BILL EVANS. YES. THIS ONE HERE, YOU CAN SEE

THESE CIRCLES; THEY ARE LIKE BULL'S-EYES HERE.

THOSE WERE TWO OF THE LOCATIONS.

Q. OKAY.

A. AND THEN THE THIRD LOCATION WAS DOWN HERE WHERE IT

SAYS -- IT'S NEAR THE WORDS "ALERT AREA," THERE'S

KIND OF A BULL'S-EYE DOWN IN THE SOUTHWEST PART---

Q. OKAY.

A. ---SOUTHWEST OF THE CANAL.

Q. AND AT THESE SITES, YOU PULLED SOIL, VEGETATION,

ROOT, AND WATER, YOU BELIEVE?

A. DEFINITELY SOILS AND VEGETATION. THE WATER, I

JUST DON'T -- WE MAY HAVE BEEN PREPARING TO TAKE

WATER, BUT THERE JUST WASN'T ANY OUT THERE.

Q. OKAY. SO, YOU WENT INTO 2A. WHERE ELSE DID YOU

GO?

A. I THINK OTHER THAN THAT -- I THINK WE MADE THAT

BIG FLY-OVER -- WE FLEW DOWN ACROSS 3A ALONG THE

TAMIAMI TRAIL, AND THEN WE FLEW UP ALONG THE

BOARDER BETWEEN THE EVERGLADES AND THE BIG CYPRUS,

AND THEN I THINK WE FLEW BACK TO THE WEST PALM

BEACH AIRPORT.

Q. OKAY. IS THAT WHERE YOU LEFT FROM WAS THE PALM

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 420

BEACH AIRPORT?

A. I THINK SO. I THINK, BECAUSE -- I'M PRETTY SURE

WE DID LEAVE FROM THERE.

Q. DID ANYONE EXPLAIN THE SYSTEM TO YOU THAT DAY?

A. WHAT DO YOU MEAN THE SYSTEM?

Q. WELL, DID SOMEONE NARRATE THE HELICOPTER TRIP,

AND SAY, NOW YOU'RE LOOKING AT 2A AND THIS IS

WHAT YOU'RE SEEING; AND NOW YOU'RE LOOKING AT 3A

AND---

A. I THINK -- I THINK PAUL LARSON MAY HAVE DONE THAT,

BUT, AGAIN, I'M NOT A HUNDRED PERCENT SURE.

Q. OKAY. DO YOU RECALL THE TYPE OF THINGS HE WAS

TELLING YOU?

A. JUST OTHER THAN THE PARK IS OVER HERE, AND THIS IS

CONSERVATION AREA 3A. AND I DO BELIEVE WE FLEW

ALONG THE EDGE OF THE EVERGLADES AGRICULTURAL AREA

BECAUSE I THINK WE SAW SOME CATTLE AND SOME

SUGARCANE FIELDS.

Q. YOU SAW CATTLE?

A. YEAH, I DO REMEMBER THAT. AND MY HEAD WAS HANGING

OUT THE WINDOW, BELIEVE ME. THAT WAS A BAD

EXPERIENCE. I WAS SO THANKFUL WHEN THEY LANDED.

(THEREUPON, THERE WAS AN

OFF-THE-RECORD DISCUSSION

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 421

WHICH WAS NOT REPORTED

BY THE COURT REPORTER.)

Q. (BY MS. PONZOLI) DID YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT ROLE

THESE OTHER GENTLEMEN HAD ON THIS HELICOPTER

TRIP?

A. NO. I MEAN, I REALLY -- THIS WAS THE FIRST TIME,

WITH THE EXCEPTION OF BILL PATRICK, WHO I'VE MET

AT MEETINGS, THAT I HAD EVER MEET THESE GENTLEMEN,

SO---

Q. OKAY. DO YOU NOW UNDERSTAND WHAT ROLE, LET'S

SAY, FOR EXAMPLE, DR. PATRICK HAS IN THE

EVERGLADES?

A. NOT REALLY. I THINK HE'S MAYBE A CONSULTANT TO

ONE OF THE INTERESTED PARTIES.

Q. DO YOU KNOW WHAT TYPE OF WORK HE'S DOING?

A. THAT I DON'T KNOW. I MEAN, IN TERMS OF HIS

SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH, GENERALLY, I KNOW WHAT TYPE

OF WORK HE'S DOING.

Q. WHAT DOES DR. PATRICK DO GENERALLY?

A. HE'S A -- WELL, HE MANAGES A WETLAND SOILS LAB AT

LOUISIANA STATE UNIVERSITY, HE'S THE DIRECTOR, AND

HE'S JUST A VERY WELL-KNOWN, VERY WELL-RESPECTED

WETLAND SOIL SCIENTIST -- HAS, YOU KNOW, PUBLISHED

PROBABLY HUNDREDS OF PAPERS, SO I KNOW HIM

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 422

PROFESSIONALLY. HIS CONSULTING WORK, I REALLY

DON'T KNOW ABOUT.

Q. OKAY. SO, YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THE CONSULTING

WORK THAT HE'S DOING FOR ONE OF THE INTERESTED

PARTIES?

A. NO. I'M NOT---

Q. DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHICH INTERESTED PARTY HE'S DOING

IT FOR?

A. WELL, I SUSPECT IT HAS TO DO WITH THE AGRICUL --

SOMEBODY WITH AGRICULTURE. BUT BEYOND THAT, I

DON'T KNOW.

Q. OKAY. HOW ABOUT MR. DAVIS?

A. I'M AWARE THAT HE'S A CONSULTANT, I THINK TO SOME

OF THE AGRICULTURAL INTERESTS, ALSO.

Q. DO YOU KNOW WHAT KIND OF WORK HE'S DOING?

A. THAT I DON'T KNOW. I KNOW THAT HE'S THE HEAD OF

THE -- OR HE'S ENVIRONMENTAL SERVICES AND

PERMITTING, I'M AWARE OF THE NAME OF THE COMPANY

HE'S WITH, OR THAT HE'S THE HEAD OF.

Q. UH-HUH (YES). ARE YOU EVER GIVEN ANY OF

DR. PATRICK'S OR DR. DAVIS' WORK TO LOOK AT IN

THE SAME WAY YOU WERE GIVEN DR. KADLEC'S AND DR.

WALKER'S?

A. I HAVEN'T SEEN ANY OF THAT, EXCEPT I THINK MAYBE

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 423

I HAD ONE PAGE THAT WAS GIVEN TO ME FROM

DR. PATRICK, OR NOT DIRECTLY FROM HIM, BUT THAT

WAS PASSED ON TO ME SEVERAL YEARS AGO. AND,

AGAIN, I THINK IT'S IN ONE OF THOSE FILES THAT YOU

ALL XEROXED.

Q. WHAT WAS IT ON?

A. I THINK IT HAD TO DO WITH THE IDEA OF SALT AND THE

ROLE OF SODIUM CHLORIDE MAYBE IN CATTAIL

ENCROACHMENT.

Q. DID HE THINK THERE WAS A RELATIONSHIP?

A. I THINK HE THOUGHT THAT IT WOULD BE WORTH TAKING A

LOOK AT. I'M NOT SURE IF HE THOUGHT THERE WAS A

RELATIONSHIP, BUT IT WAS SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE

PERHAPS LOOKED INTO.

Q. OKAY. SO, YOU WENT TO 2A. DID YOU UNDERSTAND THE

ROLES OF ANYONE ELSE THAT DAY, OF WHAT THEY WERE

DOING?

A. NO. I MEAN, ALL I KNEW WAS THAT I WAS DOING MOST

OF THE WORK. BUT THAT'S TO BE EXPECTED WHEN, YOU

KNOW, WHEN YOU'RE FIRST BROUGHT ON.

Q. WAS THAT A CLUE?

A. WELL, YOU FIGURED THEY WERE BIG SHOTS. BUT OTHER

THAN THAT, I DON'T KNOW.

Q. ALL RIGHT. HAVE YOU COME SUBSEQUENTLY TO

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 424

UNDERSTAND THE ROLES THAT ANY OF THESE OTHER

PEOPLE HAVE?

A. OTHER THAN WHAT I'VE TOLD YOU, AND I KNOW BILL

EARL, HE'S A -- I GUESS A LAWYER, OR I THINK RICK

WORKS WITH HIS PARTY, I THINK. BUT OTHER THAN

THAT, I DON'T KNOW.

Q. HAVE YOU SEEN ANY DOCUMENTS -- HAVE YOU SEEN ANY

OTHER LARSON DOCUMENTS FOLLOWING THESE?

A. I DON'T KNOW. I MAY HAVE SEEN SOMETHING AGAIN.

I KNOW HE WAS INVOLVED IN THE VEGETATION MAPPING

AND THE CATTAIL DISTRIBUTION. AND I DON'T THINK

CURT PASSED ANYTHING ON TO ME, BUT HE MAY HAVE

SHOWN ME SOMETHING AT ONE TIME, BUT---

Q. OKAY. WHEN YOU PULLED YOUR SOIL SAMPLES, WERE

THESE CORES?

A. YES.

Q. OKAY. YOU PULLED THE TRADITIONAL RICHARDSON CORE?

A. RIGHT -- CORRECT, YES.

Q. AND YOU DID -- DID YOU DO THE FULL RANGE OF TEST

ON IT THAT WE'VE DISCUSSED IN REGARD TO OTHER

CORES?

A. YES. WE MEASURED THE CESIUM, THE BULK DENSITY,

PHOSPHORUS, THE OTHER ELEMENTS THAT WE WERE

LOOKING AT.

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 425

Q. DO YOU KNOW -- DO YOU KNOW WHAT DR. RICHARDSON

DOES IN RELATION TO ALL OF THIS?

A. I'M JUST AWARE OF HIS ROLE AS DIRECTOR OF THE

WETLAND CENTER AND OVERSEEING THE, YOU KNOW, OUR

RESEARCH RELATING TO THE EVERGLADES -- TO THE

WHATEVER, THE EVERGLADES PROTECTION DISTRICT.

Q. OKAY. ARE YOU AWARE THAT HE'S AN EXPERT WITNESS,

ALSO?

A. YES, I AM AWARE THAT HE IS AN EXPERT WITNESS AND

I'M AWARE DR. RADER, I THINK, IS AN EXPERT

WITNESS, TOO.

Q. OKAY. AND YOU'RE AWARE THAT -- AT LEAST, I KNOW

DR. RADER'S IS COMPENSATED. AND I ASSUME

DR. RICHARDSON IS COMPENSATED FOR THAT SEPARATELY.

ARE YOU AWARE OF THAT?

A. I FIGURED AS MUCH, BUT I DON'T -- YOU KNOW, IT'S

NONE OF MY BUSINESS.

Q. OKAY. I HAVE TO ASK YOU, ARE YOU BEING

COMPENSATED?

A. I'M JUST BEING COMPENSATED AS A EMPLOYEE OF DUKE

UNIVERSITY. I MEAN, I WORK FOR DUKE UNIVERSITY

AND THAT'S THE ONLY SOURCE OF INCOME RELATING, YOU

KNOW, TO WORK THAT I GET.

Q. YOU GET NO OTHER FEES FOR CONSULTATION---

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 426

A. NO, NO.

Q. ---OR PULLING CORES---

A. I'M NOT SURE WHETHER I'D WANT TO EITHER; I HAVE

MIXED FEELINGS ABOUT THAT.

Q. OKAY. HAVE YOU EVER HAD CONVERSATIONS WITH MR.

LARSON FOLLOWING THIS, REGARDING YOUR VEGETATION

WORK OR HIS VEGETATION WORK?

A. YES. THERE WAS ONE TIME HE CALLED. AND, IN FACT,

I HAVE SOME INFORMATION IN THIS DOCUMENT. HE

INFORMED US -- HE WAS THE ONE THAT INFORMED US

THAT OUR COORDINATES, HE THOUGHT, WERE NOT RIGHT

USING LORAN-C, BECAUSE HE WENT OUT AND FOUND THAT

THE GPS GAVE DIFFERENT COORDINATES. AND THAT WAS

ONE REASON WE DECIDED WE SHOULD GO OUT AND

REASSESS THE LOCATION OF OUR PLOTS.

Q. WHEN WAS THIS?

A. I THINK IT WAS ABOUT A YEAR AGO. I MEAN, IT

HAS BEEN WITHIN THE PAST, I WOULD SAY, TWELVE

TO EIGHTEEN MONTHS. IT'S -- YOU KNOW, IT'S BEEN

A YEAR, BUT I CAN'T SAY FOR CERTAIN WHEN IT

WAS.

Q. ANY OTHER CONVERSATIONS WITH MR. LARSON?

A. I DON'T THINK SO.

Q. WHY DID HE FORWARD THESE -- HOW DID YOU GET THESE

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 427

DOCUMENTS -- OH, YOU GOT THESE DIRECTLY FROM

MR. LARSON---

A. I THINK I WAS A -- RIGHT.

Q. ---YOU WERE CC'D?

A. YEAH.

Q. WHY DID HE SEND THESE TO YOU?

A. WELL, WE WANTED TO KNOW THE LOCATION OF WHERE WE

TOOK THE CORES. THAT WAS THE WHOLE POINT.

Q. OKAY.

A. THIS ALL CAME AS ONE BIG LUMP, I BELIEVE, OR MOST

OF THIS -- THESE THREE CERTAINLY. AND I DON'T

KNOW ABOUT THIS ONE HERE, BUT THIS MAY HAVE COME

WITH HIS, ALSO.

Q. OKAY. AND WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT IS FIGURE

TEN, SUMMARY OF RESULTS---

A. RIGHT.

A. ---7/12/89 VEGETATION SURVEYS?

A. RIGHT. THAT PROBABLY CAME -- SINCE IT HAS HIS

NAME ON IT, IT PROBABLY CAME WITH ALL THIS.

Q. OKAY. IS THIS MR. LARSON'S VEGETATION SURVEY?

A. THAT, I'M NOT -- I DON'T KNOW. I THINK -- I

ALWAYS HAVE TROUBLE TELLING WHOSE -- WHETHER IT'S

THE DISTRICT'S WORK, OR HAS BEEN SOME OF HIS WORK.

I'M ASSUMING IT'S HIS, SINCE IT'S ON LARSON AND

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 428

ASSOCIATES PAPER.

Q. I'VE WAITED YEARS TO SEE THIS.

A. SERIOUSLY?

Q. SERIOUSLY.

A. YOU SHOULD HAVE CALLED ME UP.

Q. IF I'D ONLY KNOWN. THE HOLY LAND---

A. YES.

Q. ---IS THE LAST, 9/27/89. I TAKE IT YOU DID NOT DO

THIS THAT DAY?

A. NO. AND ACTUALLY THE PREVIOUS PAGE, WE TOOK SOME

MORE CORES IN SEPTEMBER OF '89. AND AGAIN, I

GUESS PAUL LARSON WAS INVOLVED IN THIS, ALTHOUGH I

DON'T REMEMBER THAT TRIP LIKE THE FIRST ONE.

Q. YOU HAD THE PATCHES ON?

A. UH-HUH (YES).

Q. OKAY. LOOKING AT THE HOLY LAND, WHEN WAS THIS --

THIS WAS 9/27/89?

A. IT WAS SEPTEMBER '89, YES.

Q. OKAY. WHAT WAS THE PURPOSE OF THIS TRIP?

A. AGAIN, WE WERE JUST TRYING TO GET A HANDLE ON JUST

WHAT THE AREAS THAT WE WERE ABLE TO SAMPLE -- WHAT

THE RATES OF PEAT ACCRETION AND NUTRIENT

ACCUMULATION WERE. AND, ALSO, I THINK WE PROBABLY

TOOK SOME PLANT SAMPLES AND SOME WATER SAMPLES

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 429

HERE---

Q. OKAY.

A. ---WE TOOK TWO CORES, AS YOU CAN SEE MARKED.

Q. RIGHT. RIGHT. DID YOU DO ANYTHING WITH THIS

DATA?

A. WE ANALYZED IT, AND THE CESIUM PROFILES WERE

NOT -- THEY DIDN'T COME OUT. AND THEN I FOUND OUT

THAT THEY USE TO USE THE HOLY LAND AS A BOMBING

RANGE, SO I COULD SEE WHERE CESIUM MIGHT NOT WORK

SO WELL.

Q. I DON'T MEAN TO BE STUPID, BUT WOULD IT HAVE JUST

BEEN MESSED UP; I MEAN, THOSE WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN

RADIOACTIVE TEST OUT THERE?

A. NO. BIG CRATERS---

Q. OH, BIG CRATERS WOULD JUST---

A. ---WOULD DISTURB THE PEAT.

Q. ---JUST DISTURB THE WHOLE BENCHMARK?

A. YEAH.

Q. OKAY. WHO WENT ON THIS HELICOPTER TRIP TO THE

HOLY LAND?

A. I DON'T REMEMBER, BUT I'M SURE IT WAS

DR. RICHARDSON AND MYSELF AND THE PILOT. AND I

REALLY DON'T REMEMBER WHO ELSE, IF ANYBODY.

Q. HAVE YOU DONE -- OTHER THAN THIS 9/27/89 TRIP TO

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 430

THE HOLY LAND, HAVE YOU DONE OTHER TRIPS TO THE

HOLY LAND?

A. THIS WAS THE ONE -- ONE TIME -- ONE SHOT DEAL, I

GUESS.

Q. OKAY. I'D LIKE TO LOOK BACK AT ONE OTHER OF THESE

MAPS AND JUST ASK YOU SOME QUESTIONS.

(MS. PONZOLI LOOKS THROUGH DOCUMENTS.)

Q. OKAY. GOING BACK TO, I GUESS, THE ONE I HAD ASKED

YOU BEFORE, ESTABLISHED 9/30/89, AND IT SAYS

RICHARDSON AND CRAFT. ARE YOU WITH ME?

A. NO, BUT I'M WORKING ON IT.

(THEREUPON, WITNESS LOOKS FOR DOCUMENT.)

A. HOW FAR IN IS THAT -- IS IT BACK QUITE A FEW

PAGES?

Q. IT MAY BE PRETTY MUCH IN THE MIDDLE.

A. OKAY. YEAH, I THINK I'M THERE -- RIGHT HERE?

Q. OKAY. IS THAT BENCHMARK -- IS THAT YOURS OR

WHOSE?

A. THIS IS -- I'M PRETTY SURE THIS IS WHAT THE

HELICOPTER PILOT WAS DOING WHILE WE -- HE HAD THE

LORAN WITH THE HELICOPTER. AND WHEN WE WERE

COLLECTING SAMPLES, HE WAS, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO

SET UP OR DETERMINE WHERE WE WERE -- THE

COORDINATES.

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 431

Q. SO, THESE ARE JUST YOUR COORDINATES, IS THAT

RIGHT?

A. RIGHT.

Q. THERE ARE SOME MORE LARSON DOCUMENTS IN ANOTHER

FILE THAT I'D LIKE TO ASK YOU ABOUT. IT'S CRAFT

NUMBER ELEVEN. I DON'T KNOW IF WE -- DID WE

REPRODUCE THAT ONE PRETTY MUCH IN ITS ENTIRETY FOR

YOU?

A. I HAVE A LOT OF INFORMATION, YES.

(THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.)

Q. OKAY. WHAT IS THIS PARTICULAR FILE?

A. THIS LOOKS LIKE THIS WAS THE -- WHEN WE WENT OUT

AND MEASURED, WE FIRST SET UP OUR PERMANENT

VEGETATION PLOTS AND MEASURED THE SPECIES

COMPOSITION IN 1990.

Q. WHAT -- IF YOU'D TURN TOWARD THE BACK, YOU HAVE --

WE HAVE -- I GUESS IT'S A FAX FROM LARSON AND

ASSOCIATES IN 2/11/91 TO DR. QUALLS. HOW DID YOU

COME TO HAVE THIS DOCUMENT, DR. CRAFT?

A. I THINK JERRY OR DR. QUALLS PROBABLY PASSED IT ON

TO ME SINCE I WAS DOING THE VEGETATION WORK.

Q. OKAY.

A. AND I'M NOT QUITE SURE WHY HE ENDED UP GETTING IT,

YOU'LL GET TO ASK HIM THAT.

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 432

Q. SO, THE NOTE, "PLEASE REVIEW RELATIVE TO CHANGES

OBSERVED ON YOUR TRANSECTS," REALLY IS A NOTE

PROBABLY TO YOURSELF?

A. WELL, THAT'S HIS WRITING, BUT I'M ASSUMING WHAT

HE'S TALKING ABOUT IS MAYBE, SINCE HE HAD SOME

GOOD VEGETATION DATA, MAYBE TRYING TO COMPARE OUR

DATA TO WHAT HE FOUND ON HIS LINES.

Q. OKAY. SO, YOU DID CONSULT AT THIS TIME WITH --

DID YOU TALK WITH MR. LARSON?

A. NO. AGAIN, I THINK THIS WAS MORE FOR JUST MY

BENEFIT. AND, SEE, HIS LINES ARE NOT THE SAME AS

OUR TRANSECT, SO IT'S---

Q. RIGHT.

A. ---YOU CAN'T REALLY DIRECTLY COMPARE THEM, YOU CAN

JUST KIND OF GET AN EYEBALL, YOU KNOW, JUST SORT

OF ESTIMATE.

Q. OKAY.

A. AND I DON'T SEE -- WELL, YOU CAN SEE SOME OF OUR

POINTS ON THE NEXT TO THE LAST PAGE. IT LOOKS

LIKE SOMEBODY -- MAYBE JERRY -- DRAWN IN D1, D2,

D3, AND D4, AND YOU CAN SEE HIS TRANSECTS TEND TO

RUN IN-BETWEEN OURS.

Q. I'M NOT WITH YOU EXACTLY. SHOW ME WHAT YOU'RE---

(THEREUPON, WITNESS POINTS TO DOCUMENT.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 433

A. NEXT TO THE LAST PAGE.

Q. IS THIS IT?

A. SEE WHERE IT LOOKS LIKE SOMEBODY'S WRITTEN D1 --

WELL, D2, D3, D4 -- JUST SORT OF KIND OF SO WE CAN

SEE WHAT HE FOUND AND SEE IF OUR NUMBERS SORT OF

JIVE WITH THAT OR ARE SIMILAR.

Q. OKAY. OKAY. SO, THIS IS NOT -- THIS VEGETATION

WORK REFLECTED HERE, LIKE CATTAIL, PIGWEED,

SAWGRASS, ETCETERA---

A. RIGHT.

Q. ---THIS IS NOT YOUR VEGETATION WORK---

A. NO. THIS IS SOME WORK HE APPARENTLY DID.

Q. ---THIS IS MR. LARSON'S?

A. YEAH.

Q. OKAY. AND THEN THE LAST PAGE, IS THAT THE SAME?

A. I BELIEVE THAT'S THAT FIGURE WE SAW IN THE

PREVIOUS EXHIBIT.

Q. AND YOU BELIEVE THIS IS LARSON'S WORK?

A. WELL, JUST -- I THOUGHT IT SAID AT THE TOP ON THE

OTHER PAGE IT WAS FROM LARSON AND ASSOCIATES, SO,

YEAH, I THINK THIS IS HIS WORK.

Q. OKAY. DID YOU COMPARE YOUR WORK WITH THIS?

A. I THINK I JUST LOOKED AT IT TO -- JUST TO GET A

RELATIVE IDEA. THE ONE THING IS -- YOU KNOW, WITH

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 434

A MAP LIKE THIS, IT'S HARD TO REALLY PIN -- WE CAN

PUT OUR PLOTS ON THERE, BUT YOU SEE HIS DETAIL IS

NOT THAT GREAT -- FIFTY PERCENT (50%) OR MORE

SAWGRASS, FIFTY PERCENT (50%) OR MORE CATTAIL,

OTHER, YOU KNOW, WHEREAS WE ACTUALLY TRIED TO, YOU

KNOW, GO INTO MORE DETAIL WITH THE INDIVIDUAL

SPECIES.

Q. WERE YOU ON THE JULY 12, 1989, SURVEY? I CAN'T

REMEMBER THE DATES THAT YOU WERE WITH DUKE.

A. NO, NO. I WAS NOT INVOLVED IN THAT.

Q. OKAY.

A. I WENT OUT IN JUNE OF '89, SEPTEMBER OF '89, IN A

HELICOPTER, AND JANUARY OF '90.

Q. DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA, IF YOU LOOK AT THIS MAP FROM

LARSON---

(THEREUPON, MS. PONZOLI SHOWS WITNESS DOCUMENT.)

A. OKAY. I WILL FIND IT. I HAVE IT.

Q. DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA IF THIS SURVEY LIMITS LINE IS

AS FAR AS THEY WENT?

A. I DON'T KNOW. SOMETHING LIKE THAT WOULD SOUND TO

ME LIKE THAT IS AS FAR AS THEY WENT, BECAUSE THEY

SHOW THEIR TRANSECTS NOT GOING ANY FARTHER THAN

THAT.

Q. YOU HAVE NO IDEA OF HOW THE SURVEY LIMIT LINE WAS

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 435

DETERMINED EXCEPT THAT THAT WOULD APPEAR JUST

RATIONALLY FROM THE WAY IT'S DRAWN?

A. RIGHT.

Q. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THE MECHANISMS FOR CATTAIL

MAINTENANCE FOR SAWGRASS COMMUNITIES---

A. IS THIS IN THE SAME EXHIBIT?

(THEREUPON, MS. PONZOLI SHOWS WITNESS DOCUMENT.)

A. OKAY. I HAVE IT.

Q. OKAY. DID YOU WRITE THIS?

A. YES.

Q. YOU EXTRAPOLATED LARSON'S DATA TO YOUR LOCATIONS,

RIGHT?

A. RIGHT.

Q. BUT YOU JUST ACCEPTED HIS FIGURES AS BEING

ACCURATE BECAUSE YOU HAD NO WAY OF CONFIRMING THEM

YOURSELF?

A. OH, RIGHT, CERTAINLY---

Q. OKAY.

A. ---I MEAN, THIS IS A SORT OF EXTRAPOLEE.

Q. SURE, SURE. AND YOU ASSIGNED THE FIFTY PERCENT TO

THE 10D2 SITE AND THE THIRTY PERCENT TO THE 10D3,

IS THAT RIGHT?

A. I SAY THAT, YES.

Q. RIGHT. OKAY. YOU'RE TALKING THROUGH HERE ABOUT

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 436

THE BURN AND THE FREEZE AND ITS EFFECT ON THE

CATTAIL. AND THEN, I THINK, YOU'VE GRAPHED SOME

OF THAT ON THE FOLLOWING PAGE. IS THAT ACCURATE?

A. YES.

Q. OKAY. YOU SHOW IN FEBRUARY OF '91 THAT THE

CATTAIL IS RECOLONIZING. IS THAT ACCURATE?

A. WHICH ONE ARE WE TALKING ABOUT HERE?

Q. BOTH. ACTUALLY BOTH.

A. BOTH. OKAY, I SEE---

Q. D2 AND D3.

A. ---THERE IS AN INCREASE IN CATTAIL OVER AUGUST OF

1990.

Q. RIGHT. WHAT -- YOU DON'T THINK IT'S RECOLONIZING

THOSE PLOTS?

A. NO, NO. I'M SAYING THERE IS AN INCREASE COMPARED

TO AUGUST OF 1990.

Q. OH, OKAY. SINCE WE'RE IN '92 MOVING ON INTO '93,

HAVE YOU BEEN BACK TO THESE SITES, AND CAN YOU

TELL ME HOW THESE BARS WOULD LOOK TODAY? WOULD

THEY HAVE MORE CATTAIL REFLECTED ON THEM?

A. WE'VE BEEN BACK. I WOULD HAVE TO LOOK AT THE DATA

TO SEE, BUT WE WERE BACK THIS PAST MAY TO THESE

PLOTS.

Q. BUT YOU DON'T RECALL WHETHER THEY'VE -- THERE'S

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 437

BEEN MORE COLONIZATION OF THE CATTAIL SINCE THE

TIME IN FEBRUARY '91?

A. NO. I MEAN, BUT THE INFORMATION IS THERE, YOU

KNOW, AND IT COULD BE LOOKED AT.

Q. WHERE WOULD THAT BE IN YOUR DATA? JUST TELL ME, I

DON'T WANT TO LOOK FOR IT.

A. IN THAT -- IN ALL THAT VEGETATION STUFF WE'VE BEEN

TALKING ABOUT, YEAH.

Q. OH, IS IT JUST AHEAD OF IT; IS THAT JUST AHEAD OF

IT?

A. IT'S PROBABLY ALL -- YEAH, ALL -- IT MAY ALL BE IN

THIS---

Q. IS THIS ALL IN THIS SAME FILE?

A. I THINK SO. LOOK AT THE DATE. WELL, NOW THIS IS

1990. DO YOU HAVE THE '92 STUFF IN HERE?

Q. I HAVE SOME '92. I THINK SOMEONE'S WHISPERING TO

ME THAT IT MAY BE IN NUMBER TEN.

A. NO TALKING OVER THERE.

(THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.)

Q. THAT'S FINE, I CAN LOOK AT IT.

A. OKAY.

Q. HAVE YOU FORMED ANY CONCLUSIONS, DR. CRAFT,

REGARDING THE USE OF FIRE AS A MECHANISM FOR

CONTROLLING CATTAIL?

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 438

A. I HAVEN'T FORMULATED ANY CONCLUSIONS, BUT I THINK

IT'S CERTAINLY WORTH LOOKING AT TO SEE IF PERIODIC

FIRE CAN BE USED TO MANAGE -- TO MAINTAIN

SAWGRASS. I MEAN, I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT

SHOULD BE INVESTIGATED.

Q. AND YOU WOULD CONSIDER PERIODIC HOW OFTEN?

A. THAT'S WHAT I DON'T KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT -- PERHAPS,

MAYBE EVERY TWO OR THREE YEARS, I DON'T KNOW.

THAT'S WHERE I THINK THESE PERMANENT PLOTS BY

GOING BACK AND LOOKING EVERY COUPLE OF YEARS AND

SEEING HOW THE PLANTS CHANGE.

Q. AND HOW WOULD YOU -- I MEAN, I DON'T MEAN TO BE

FACETIOUS -- I REALLY DON'T -- BUT HOW WOULD YOU

CONTROL THESE FIRES?

A. THEY'D HAVE TO BE PRESCRIBED BURNS, AND I'M NOT,

YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY WHO DOES THAT, SO YOU'D

CERTAINLY HAVE TO TALK TO SOMEBODY WHO IS -- WHO

DOES THAT FOR A LIVING AND SEE. I MEAN, CERTAINLY

YOU WOULDN'T WANT TO TRY TO GO OUT THERE AND BURN

IN SEPTEMBER WHEN THERE'S THREE FEET OF WATER.

THE TIME OF YEAR WOULD BE IMPORTANT TO -- YOU

KNOW, I WOULD THINK YOU WOULD WANT TO HAVE WATER

MAYBE JUST AT THE SURFACE. I THINK YOU'D NEED A

COMBINATION OF BURNING AND THEN MAYBE A CHANGE IN

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 439

THE WATER LEVEL, TOO, BUT I DON'T KNOW ENOUGH

ABOUT IT. I THINK IT'S SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE

LOOKED THOUGH.

Q. SO, YOU'D NEED ENOUGH WATER THAT THE PEAT WOULDN'T

BURN---

A. RIGHT.

Q. ---YOU DON'T WANT IT SO DRY THAT THE PEAT'S

BURNING, BUT---

A. YOU WANT IT DRY ENOUGH TO WHERE IT BURNS DOWN TO

THE BASE OR PRETTY CLOSE TO IT. YOU MAYBE

WOULDN'T HAVE TO HAVE SURFACE WATER. BUT IF YOU

HAD IT RIGHT BELOW THE SURFACE, THE PEAT WOULD

STILL STAY MOIST.

Q. IS THE THEORY OF THIS THAT A SCORCHED EVERGLADES

IS BETTER THAN ONE FILLED WITH CATTAILS?

MR. GREEN: OBJECT TO THE FORM.

A. WELL, NO. I'M NOT SURE IF THE -- IT'S NOT A

THEORY. BUT, YOU KNOW, I THINK FROM WHAT YOU READ

IN THE LITERATURE, FIRE WAS AN IMPORTANT COMPONENT

OF THE HISTORICAL EVERGLADES AND THAT MAY HAVE

HELPED MAINTAIN SAWGRASS AGAINST OTHER SPECIES IN

THE PAST.

Q. DO YOU THINK THAT CONTROLLING CATTAIL IS IMPORTANT

FOR MANAGING THE EVERGLADES?

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 440

A. I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT IF PEOPLE DON'T WANT

CATTAIL. THAT'S -- I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S MY

DECISION TO MAKE. IF THEY WANT TO MAINTAIN

SAWGRASS, THEN MAYBE THEY NEED TO THINK ABOUT, YOU

KNOW, CONTROLLING CATTAIL.

Q. IS THERE LITERATURE THAT INDICATES THAT FIRE

CONTROLS CATTAIL?

A. I DON'T KNOW. I'M NOT AWARE OF IT. BUT, AGAIN,

THIS IS NOT SOMETHING I'M REALLY KNOWLEDGEABLE

ABOUT.

Q. IS DR. RICHARDSON MORE AN EXPERT ON FIRE IN THE

EVERGLADES?

A. I DON'T KNOW. I'M NOT SURE. HE MAY KNOW MORE

THAN ME, BUT, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT SURE IF HE'S AN

EXPERT ON FIRE IN THE EVERGLADES.

Q. OKAY. I'D LIKE TO MOVE ON TO CRAFT NUMBER

SEVENTEEN, AND I DON'T KNOW IF I DID THE WHOLE

FILE FOR YOU. THIS IS THE FILE FROM WHICH IT

CAME.

A. I HAVE SOME PAGES HERE.

Q. YEAH. IT LOOKS LIKE YOU HAVE THE WHOLE FILE.

THIS IS THE AREA OF ENHANCED PHOSPHORUS

ACCUMULATION. IS THAT RIGHT?

A. UH-HUH (YES).

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 441

Q. I WOULD LIKE TO GO TO THE FIRST PAGE OF DATA AND

ASK YOU TO EXPLAIN WHAT THIS DATA REFLECTS.

A. WE TOOK OUR DATA ON PHOSPHORUS ACCUMULATION IN 2A

AND TRIED TO DETERMINE WHAT THE SIZE OF THIS AREA

OF ENHANCED PEAT ACCUMULATION IS, AND THIS WAS OUR

ATTEMPT TO DO THAT.

Q. OKAY. I ASSUME THAT THE AREAS OF ENRICHMENT

INCLUDE HIGH ENRICHMENT, MODERATE ENRICHMENT, AND

LOW ENRICHMENT. IS THAT ACCURATE?

A. RIGHT, WHICH I JUST BROKE OUT ARBITRARILY.

Q. OKAY. AND THAT THAT IS DISTINGUISHED FROM THE

UNENRICHED AREA?

A. CORRECT.

Q. OKAY. WHAT IS THIS TOTAL AREA OF FOURTEEN

THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED HECTARES?

A. THAT AREA IS THE ELEVEN THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED

ENRICHED AREA PLUS THE ADDITIONAL THREE THOUSAND

HECTARES THAT OUR TRANSECTS EXTENDED FURTHER SOUTH

OUT OF THE ENRICHED ZONES. SO IT'S JUST THAT YOU

ADD THOSE UP.

Q. IS THIS THE TOTAL WATER CONSERVATION AREA 2A?

A. NO. NO. NO. THIS IS THE ENRICHED AREA PLUS THE

UNENRICHED AREA THAT WE SAMPLED.

Q. OKAY. AND THEN THE NEXT PAGE REFLECTS WHAT?

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 442

A. THESE ARE THE PLANIMETER WORK THAT LORI SUTTER

CALCULATED TO DETERMINE THE AREA.

Q. AND IS SHE COMPARING -- IS THIS YOUR WRITING, OR

HERS?

A. NO. THIS IS HERS.

Q. OKAY. AND WAS SHE COMPARING DR. REDDY'S WORK WITH

YOURS?

A. WELL, WE WERE JUST TRYING TO DETERMINE --

DR. REDDY'S DONE A LOT OF WORK IN CONSERVATION

AREA 2A, AND WE WERE JUST LOOKING AT HIS DATA TO

SEE HOW FAR HIS ZONE OF ENRICHMENT EXTENDED VERSUS

OUR ZONE OF ENRICHMENT.

Q. OKAY. ALL OF THESE ARE STAMPED WITH "DRAFT." IS

THAT CUSTOMARY THAT YOU WOULD STAMP YOUR DATA

SHEETS DRAFT?

A. NOT CUSTOMARY. BUT SINCE THIS NUMBER SEEMS TO

BE OF INTEREST TO A LOT OF PEOPLE, WE WOULD LIKE

TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE IT RIGHT, OR WE THINK WE

HAVE THE BEST ESTIMATE BEFORE, YOU KNOW, WE

RELEASE IT, OR, YOU KNOW, LET IT OUT FOR THE

PUBLIC TO SEE.

Q. OKAY. SO, WHEN YOUR DOCUMENTS WERE PULLED

TOGETHER, WERE THEY STAMPED "DRAFT" AT THAT

TIME?

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 443

A. I DIDN'T STAMP THEM DRAFT, SO, I'M NOT SURE.

I THINK DR. RICHARDSON MAY HAVE LOOKED AT THESE

AND STAMPED THEM, BECAUSE THIS IS SUCH KIND OF A

CONTENTIOUS ISSUE.

Q. OKAY. DID DR. RICHARDSON REVIEW YOUR DOCUMENTS

BEFORE THEY WERE TURNED OVER TO THE UNITED

STATES?

A. HE DIDN'T REVIEW THEM, BUT I THINK HE LOOKED AT

SOME OF THEM.

Q. DO YOU KNOW WHO DID CHOOSE TO MARK YOUR DOCUMENTS

DRAFT?

A. NO, I'M NOT SURE WHO STAMPED THEM -- THIS

PARTICULAR ONE. I KNOW THAT IT WASN'T ME, SO.

Q. DID YOU MAKE THE DECISION TO STAMP THIS "DRAFT,"

OR DID DR. RICHARDSON?

A. I DID NOT MAKE THE DECISION, SO.

Q. YOU DON'T KNOW WHO MADE IT?

A. RIGHT.

Q. OKAY. HOW DID YOU DISTINGUISH IN THIS ONE

BETWEEN THE HIGH, THE MEDIUM, AND THE LOW

ENRICHMENT?

A. FIRST, WE DEFINED UNENRICHED VERSUS ENRICHED AS

AN ACCUMULATION RATE OF .15 GRAMS PER METER

SQUARED PER YEAR OR GREATER. WELL -- SO, THAT'S

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 444

THE OVERALL ENRICHED ZONE. SO, THE LOW AREA GOES

FROM .15 TO .40 GRAMS PER METER SQUARED PER

YEAR---

Q. OKAY.

A. ---THE MEDIUM GOES FROM .40 TO .65. AND THE HIGH

GOES FROM .65 TO .90.

Q. AND THE LOW WAS THE .15 TO .40---

A. YES.

Q. ---WAS THAT THE -- OKAY. ALL RIGHT. I'M SORRY,

I THOUGHT THAT WAS UNENRICHED, AND I GOT IT

WRONG.

A. SO, THE UNENRICHED IS LESS THAN .15.

Q. OKAY. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. I'D LIKE TO LOOK AT

CRAFT NUMBER EIGHTY-EIGHT---

A. I DON'T KNOW WHERE THAT IS.

(THEREUPON, WITNESS LOOKS FOR DOCUMENT.)

A. OH, OKAY.

Q. ---AND I PROBABLY REPRODUCED THE WHOLE DOCUMENT,

BUT THERE'S REALLY A PAGE -- A FEW PAGES FROM THE

END -- FOUR PAGES FROM THE END THAT I WOULD LIKE

TO ASK YOU ABOUT---

A. OKAY.

Q. ---THIS PAGE RIGHT HERE.

(THEREUPON, MS. PONZOLI SHOWS WITNESS DOCUMENT.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 445

A. OKAY. I HAVE IT.

Q. I WOULD LIKE FOR YOU TO TELL ME WHAT THESE DATA

ARE.

A. THESE ARE THE SOIL TOTAL P AT THE PRETREATMENT

COURSE THAT WERE COLLECTED BETWEEN THE PLOTS

BEFORE WE STARTED THE STUDY.

Q. OKAY. AND THE ASTERISKS ON THIS DATA MEAN WHAT?

A. I'M NOT SURE WHAT THEY MEAN -- OH, THEY'RE

REVERSED. YOU CAN SEE THE TUBE NUMBERS REVERSE,

SEE HOW THEY'RE IN SEQUENTIAL ORDER IN THE BLOCK

NUMBER?

Q. YES. WELL, NO, I'M SORRY, IT SAYS SEVEN, EIGHT,

NINE.

A. OKAY. I SEE THESE TWO ASTERISKS WAY DOWN HERE---

Q. YES, SIR.

A. ---IF YOU GO TO THE SECOND COLUMN BLOCK NUMBER---

Q. YES, OH, I SEE.

A. ---SEE HOW IT STARTS AT ONE.

Q. SURE. OH, I SEE, SURE.

A. SO, WHAT HAPPENED WAS THOSE TWO JUST GOT REVERSED

IN THE BLOCK, AND WE JUST WANTED TO BE AWARE OF

THAT AND MAKE SURE WE HAD THE RIGHT NUMBERS.

Q. OKAY. ON THE NEXT PAGE, IT HAS SOMETHING ABOUT AN

ASTERISK AND IT SAYS "THROWN OUT." WHAT DOES THAT

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 446

MEAN -- WHAT DOES THAT ASTERISK REFER TO?

A. WELL, I'M NOT EXACTLY SURE, BUT IT MEANS THAT WE

PROBABLY DIDN'T INCLUDE THE SAMPLING, REDIGESTED

IT BECAUSE WE HAD PROBLEMS WITH IT. BUT I DON'T

REALLY SEE WHAT---

Q. WAS THAT FROM SAMPLE 1D, PERHAPS, AT THE TOP?

A. THAT'S SAMPLE ID---

Q. I'M SORRY, ID.

A. ---AND THEN THE ASTERISK IS BELOW THAT, AND I

DON'T SEE ANY IDENTIFICATION WITH IT. THAT'S

THE THING -- THAT'S NINE, TEN, ELEVEN -- UNLESS

IT'S THESE TWO ON THE PREVIOUS PAGE THAT HAVE

THE ASTERISKS WITH THEM. MAYBE WE THREW THEM

OUT BECAUSE WE DIDN'T KNOW WHICH ONES THEY

EXACTLY WERE, ALTHOUGH -- IF WE'D GOTTEN THEM

REVERSED.

Q. SHOULD THEY HAVE BEEN CLOSER TOGETHER IN THEIR

TOTAL PHOSPHORUS? YOU SEE THERE, ONE IS ALMOST

DOUBLE THE OTHER.

A. WELL, I DON'T KNOW. THAT MAY BE -- I DON'T KNOW

WHETHER WE RERAN THOSE SAMPLES OR WHAT. BUT

THERE'S A LOT OF VARIABILITY IN THE SOILS OUT

THERE. THESE WERE ZERO TO THIRTY CENTIMETER DEEP

CORES THAT WERE DRIED AND GROUND UP.

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 447

Q. DO YOU HAVE EXHIBITS LEFT THAT I HAVEN'T

QUESTIONED YOU ON, BECAUSE I HAVE RUN THROUGH

MINE?

A. WELL, I WASN'T SEQUENTIALLY MOVING THEM OVER UNTIL

LATER ON SO.

Q. DO YOU HAVE A TWENTY-ONE AND A TWENTY-NINE?

A. UH-HUH (YES). MAYBE THESE ARE THE TWO THAT

REMAIN.

MR. BURGESS: TWENTY-ONE AND

TWENTY-NINE?

WITNESS: YES. TWENTY-ONE AND

TWENTY-NINE.

(THEREUPON, MS. PONZOLI AND MR. MAFFEI CONFER.)

MS. PONZOLI: I JUST HAVE A FEW

QUESTIONS FROM THE ANNUAL REPORTS.

WITNESS: CAN WE BACK UP, ARE WE

GOING TO DEAL WITH TWENTY-ONE AND

TWENTY-NINE?

MS. PONZOLI: NO.

WITNESS: OKAY.

MS. PONZOLI: DO YOU WANT TO?

WITNESS: NO, I JUST SAW MARK HANDING

THEM TO YOU, SO, I DIDN'T KNOW IF WE WERE

DONE ON THIS.

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 448

MS. PONZOLI: NO, I DON'T THINK I

HAVE ANYTHING ON EITHER.

WITNESS: OKAY.

Q. (BY MS. PONZOLI) I DO HAVE A QUESTION FROM THE

ANNUAL REPORT 1992, FROM YOUR CHAPTER ONE. I

DON'T HAVE COPIES OF THIS. IF YOU NEED TO SEE IT,

I'LL SHOW IT TO YOU. IT'S CHAPTER ONE, THE

FERTILIZER STUDY, "RESPONSE OF EVERGLADES PLANT

COMMUNITIES TO NITROGEN AND PHOSPHORUS ADDITIONS,"

ON PAGE 13, UNDER "EXPERIMENTAL DESIGN," YOU TALK

IN THE -- I BELIEVE THE SECOND FULL SENTENCE

REGARDING "THE THREE COMMUNITIES ARE FOUND ALONG A

HYDROPERIOD GRADIENT WITH SAWGRASS EXTENDING ON

THE DRIER END OF THE GRADIENT AND SLOUGH COMMUNITY

OCCUPYING THE WETTER END." MAYBE I'VE JUST

FORGOTTEN, DR. CRAFT, DID WE DISCUSS HOW YOU SET

UP A GRADIENT OF HYDROPERIOD?

A. WE DIDN'T SET UP A GRADIENT. WE SET UP THE PLOTS

AND THEN WE MONITORED WATER LEVELS. AND,

BASICALLY, ALL IT SHOWS IS THE WATER LEVEL DATA --

ON PAGE 15 -- SHOWS THAT THE SITES DO APPEAR TO

EXIST ON A HYDROPERIOD GRADIENT. THAT WAS NOT AN

INTENT. THAT WAS MORE JUST SOMETHING WE OBSERVED

DURING, YOU KNOW, ONCE THE STUDY WAS SET UP.

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 449

Q. UH-HUH (YES). WHEN YOU LOOK AT PAGE 15, AT THE

GRAPH, DO YOU BELIEVE THAT YOU ARE SEEING A

DIFFERENCE EXCEPT WHEN THE GATES ARE OPENED?

A. WELL, IF YOU COMPARE THE SAWGRASS AND THE SLOUGH

SITE, THE DIFFERENCE SEEMS TO OCCUR YEAR ROUND.

YOU CAN SEE THE SAWGRASS AND THE SLOUGH SITE

REALLY SEEM TO MIMIC EACH OTHER IN TERMS OF GOING

UP AND DOWN, BUT THE SAWGRASS SITE IS JUST DRIER.

THE MIXED SITE SEEMS TO SHOW THAT WHEN THE GATES

ARE OPEN, YOU SEE THESE BIG FLUCTUATIONS THERE IN

THE MIDDLE OF THE SUMMER.

Q. UH-HUH (YES). DO YOU HAVE A HYDROPERIOD STUDY

ALSO LOCATED IN 2B?

A. DR. RICHARDSON HAS THE LEAD IN A -- IN A NUTRIENT

HYDROPERIOD DISTURBANCE STUDY IN 2B.

Q. OKAY. NOW, BACK ON 13, YOU SAY, "THE MIXED

SAWGRASS-CATTAIL COMMUNITY REPRESENTS AN

INTERMEDIATE POSITION ALONG THE HYDROLOGIC

GRADIENT." LOOKING AT THE GRAPH ON 15, OTHER

THAN THE MIXED SITE RESPONDING SIGNIFICANTLY TO

THE OPEN GATES, DOESN'T IT APPEAR THAT THE MIXED

SITE IS PRETTY CLOSE TO THE SAWGRASS SITE IN ITS

HYDROPERIOD?

A. YEAH, I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT. I MEAN, I THINK THAT

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 450

MAY NOT BE A CORRECT STATEMENT.

Q. OKAY. I HAVE PICTURES OF SOME OF YOUR SLIDES---

WITNESS: CAN WE TAKE A BREAK, OR

ARE WE GETTING PRETTY CLOSE.

MS. PONZOLI: NO. LET'S TAKE A BREAK,

I'D LIKE A BREAK, AND I'LL GET A COKE.

WITNESS: OKAY.

MS. PONZOLI: WHAT -- TEN MINUTES, FIVE

MINUTES?

WITNESS: OKAY, WE'LL TAKE A BREAK NOW

FOR TEN MINUTES?

MS. PONZOLI: FIVE MINUTES IS FINE

WITH ME.

(THEREUPON, THERE WAS AN

OFF-THE-RECORD DISCUSSION

WHICH WAS NOT REPORTED

BY THE COURT REPORTER, AND

A SHORT BREAK WAS TAKEN.)

MS. PONZOLI: READY?

WITNESS: YES.

EXAMINATION BY MS. PONZOLI CONTINUES:

Q. DR. CRAFT, MY FINAL QUESTIONS ARE REALLY TO HAVE

YOU EXPLAIN SOME REPRODUCTIONS FROM YOUR SLIDES

THAT WE WOULD JUST LIKE SOME -- TO UNDERSTAND WHAT

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 451

THEY MEAN. THIS IS DEPOSITION EXHIBIT NUMBER 112,

WHICH WERE YOUR SLIDES -- NO, I'M WRONG -- OH,

THEY WERE A DIFFERENT SET. I GUESS IT'S NUMBER

113. NO, IT'S NUMBER 117, DEPOSITION EXHIBIT

NUMBER 117 CRAFT. AND SINCE THERE IS A SINGLE SET

OF THESE, DR. CRAFT, MAYBE IF YOU WOULD JUST

EXPLAIN TO EVERYONE SIMULTANEOUSLY WHAT IT

REPRESENTS, I WOULD APPRECIATE IT. DO YOU WANT ME

TO TURN IT AROUND FOR YOU, OR CAN YOU---

A. IF I WANT TO LOOK AT IT, I'LL JUST -- I CAN PICK

IT UP AND JUST LOOK.

Q. OKAY. AND WOULD YOU EXPLAIN THIS FIRST PHOSPHORUS

ACCUMULATION GRAMS PER METER SQUARED PER YEAR?

A. THIS IS A SLIDE THAT I'VE USED TO CONFUSE A LOT

OF PEOPLE, INADVERTENTLY. BUT, BASICALLY, THIS

IS DATA THAT COMES OUT OF THAT PAPER ON PEAT

ACCRETION AND NUTRIENT ACCUMULATION ALONG THE

EUTROPHICATION GRADIENT. AND IF YOU LOOK AT THIS,

THE HILLSBORO CANAL IS HERE. AND SO AS YOU MOVE

THIS WAY, YOU'RE GETTING FURTHER FROM THE

HILLSBORO CANAL, AND IT JUST SHOWS THAT PHOSPHORUS

ACCUMULATION IN GRAMS PER METER SQUARED PER YEAR

DECREASES AS YOU MOVE AWAY AND IT SHOWS THIS IS

THE "D" TRANSECT, THE "C" TRANSECT, AND THE "A"

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 452

TRANSECT. SO, THIS IS A THREE-DIMENSIONAL

REPRESENTATION HERE, AND THIS IS JUST A

TWO-DIMENSIONAL REPRESENTATION OF THE SAME THING.

Q. AT THE BOTTOM?

A. YES. IT'S A CONFUSING SLIDE, AND I'VE PRETTY MUCH

GOTTEN RID OF IT. THIS IS THE SAME SORT OF

SLIDE---

MR. BURGESS: I'M SORRY, IS THIS

IN THE SAME 117?

WITNESS: YES.

A. ---THIS IS SODIUM ACCUMULATION, AGAIN, THE CANAL

HERE, DISTANCE HERE, THE THREE-DIMENSIONAL

REPRESENTATION HERE, THE TWO HERE. BUT IT SHOWS,

AS I MENTIONED IN THE TEXT, THE SODIUM ENRICHMENT

REALLY ONLY SEEMS TO OCCUR AT A COUPLE OF POINTS

NEAR THE HILLSBORO CANAL. C1 IS ONE OF THEM.

THE SAME TYPE OF GRAPH AS THE ONE WE JUST LOOKED

AT THOUGH.

(THEREUPON, MS. PONZOLI HANDS WITNESS SLIDE.)

A. OKAY. THIS IS AGAIN THE SAME DATA GRAPH, BUT IT

IS TWO-DIMENSIONAL. AND, AGAIN, DISTANCE

DOWNSTREAM FROM THE HILLSBORO CANAL, YOU VIEW THE

CANAL AS BEING RIGHT HERE, AND IT JUST SHOWS THAT

PHOSPHORUS ACCUMULATION DECREASES WITH DISTANCE.

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 453

(THEREUPON, MS. PONZOLI HANDS WITNESS SLIDE.)

A. THIS IS A TWO-DIMENSIONAL GRAPH SHOWING SODIUM

ACCUMULATION WITH DISTANCE. AND, AGAIN, YOU SEE

THIS HIGH ZONE OF ACCUMULATION IS NEAR C1. AND D1

ALSO SHOWS SOME EVIDENCE OF HIGHER ACCUMULATION.

AND IT DECREASES AS YOU MOVE DOWNSTREAM.

Q. THE NEXT SLIDES, DR. CRAFT, I BELIEVE ARE FROM

COMPOSITE EXHIBIT NUMBER 120.

(THEREUPON, MS. PONZOLI HANDS WITNESS SLIDE.)

A. OKAY. THIS WAS A LITTLE MINI-STUDY WE DID LAST

FEBRUARY WHERE WE PUT THE FERTILIZER INTO THE

PLOTS AT THE FERTILIZER STUDY AND WE TOOK SAMPLES

AT CERTAIN TIME INTERVALS AFTER WE APPLIED THE

FERTILIZER TO GET AN IDEA OF HOW LONG THE MATERIAL

WAS RETAINED IN THE PLOTS. AND IT SHOWS THAT THE

HIGHEST PEAT TREATMENT, EVEN AFTER FORTY-EIGHT

HOURS, THERE'S STILL QUITE A BIT IN THE PLOTS. IT

JUST SHOWS A SORT OF A TIME SERIES STUDY TO SHOW

HOW THE FERTILIZER CHANGES OVER TIME. THAT'S

PHOSPHATE. THIS IS THE SAME GENERAL SLIDE, EXCEPT

IT JUST SHOWS AMMONIUM, THE NITROGEN TREATMENTS,

AND YOU CAN SEE THE CONCENTRATION IN THE WATER

WITH TIME. THIS IS FOR THE HIGH END AND THEN THIS

IS FOR THE MEDIUM AND P TREATMENT.

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 454

(THEREUPON, MS. PONZOLI HANDS WITNESS SLIDE.)

A. AND THEN THIS IS NITRATE, AGAIN THE SAME GENERAL

SERIES SHOWING. AND I THINK WHAT IS INTERESTING

IS WE DON'T ADD NITRATE, BUT YOU SEE THAT OVER

TIME, THE NITRATE ACTUALLY INCREASES IN THE PLOTS

WITH TIME. AND THAT KIND OF SUGGESTS TO ME THAT

THERE IS SOME NITRIFICATION GOING ON FROM THE

AMMONIUM THAT WE APPLY.

MS. PONZOLI: THOSE ARE ALL I HAVE

QUESTIONS ON, DR. CRAFT. I THANK YOU VERY

MUCH. YOU'VE BEEN VERY HELPFUL AND I THINK

THAT CONCLUDES MY QUESTIONS, DR. CRAFT.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

(THEREUPON, A LUNCH

BREAK WAS TAKEN.)

EXAMINATION BY MR. NETTLETON:

Q. DR. CRAFT, MY NAME IS PAUL NETTLETON. I REPRESENT

THE SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT IN

THIS LITIGATION. I'M GOING TO TRY TO BE AS

NON-REPETITIVE AS POSSIBLE. I APOLOGIZE IF THERE

IS SOME REPETITION. I WANT TO TRY AND FILL IN

SOME GAPS IN MY UNDERSTANDING, AND I'LL PREFACE

THAT BY ADVISING YOU THAT I'M PROBABLY THE NEWEST

MEMBER TO THIS WHOLE SITUATION, SO I HAVEN'T LIVED

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 455

WITH IT AS LONG AS EVERYONE ELSE, EXCEPT MAYBE

RALPH -- I DON'T KNOW. SO, I'M GOING TO TRY AND

GO THROUGH THE SAME ORDER WE WENT YESTERDAY,

THROUGH SOME OF THE DOCUMENTS. AND I WOULD FIRST

LIKE TO TALK ABOUT THE CRAFT EXHIBIT NUMBER FIVE,

AND THE DOCUMENT ENTITLED: PEAT ACCRETION IN

NITROGEN, PHOSPHORUS, AND ORGANIC CARBON

ACCUMULATION, ETCETERA, WHICH IS WETLAND CENTER

PUBLICATION NUMBER 91-02. ON THE FIRST PAGE OF

THAT -- ON THE FIRST PAGE OF THE ABSTRACT, THE --

ABOUT THIRD SENTENCE DOWN, IT READS "ACCRETION

RATES WERE HIGHEST IN AREAS OF EXTENDED

HYDROPERIOD" -- SKIPPING THE NUMBERS -- "AND/OR

PHOSPHORUS ENRICHMENT." AM I CORRECT THAT -- THAT

YOUR FINDING OF HIGHER RATES OF ACCRETION COULD

NOT BE DIVIDED BETWEEN THE HYDROPERIOD INFLUENCE,

AND THE PHOSPHORUS ENRICHMENT INFLUENCE, AND IS

THAT WHY THE "AND/OR" APPEARS?

A. NO. WHAT THAT MEANS IS THERE ARE SOME AREAS THAT

ARE EXPOSED ONLY TO EXTENDED HYDROPERIOD THAT SHOW

THIS HIGHER ACCRETION RATE, AND THEN THERE'S

ANOTHER LOCATION THOUGH THAT HAS BOTH EXTENDED

HYDROPERIOD AND PHOSPHORUS ENRICHMENT, AND ALSO

SHOWS THIS HIGHER ACCRETION RATE. THE ONE SITE WE

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 456

DID NOT HAVE WAS AN AREA THAT HAS -- THAT WE WERE

NOT -- DID NOT SAMPLE -- HAD A SHORT HYDROPERIOD

AND PHOSPHORUS ENRICHMENT, SO.

Q. OKAY. WHAT WAS THE SITE WITH THE EXTENDED

HYDROPERIOD, WITHOUT PHOSPHORUS ENRICHMENT?

A. THOSE WERE THE LOCATIONS DOWN IN THE SOUTHERN PART

OF CONSERVATION AREA 3A, RIGHT ADJACENT TO THE

TAMI -- I THINK IT'S THE TAMIAMI TRAIL.

Q. WERE YOU ABLE, THROUGH THIS STUDY, AND THE DATA

YOU COLLECTED, TO DETERMINE WHICH FACTOR IS A MORE

SUBSTANTIAL FACTOR IN THE ACCRETION RATES OF THE

PEATS?

A. NO. YOU KNOW, THERE AGAIN, I THINK WE TALKED

ABOUT THIS YESTERDAY, AND I THINK AT THIS POINT, I

DON'T HAVE THE INFORMATION TO BE ABLE TO SEPARATE

OUT THE RELATIVE IMPORTANCE OF HYDROPERIOD VERSUS

PHOSPHORUS ENRICHMENT.

Q. AND CONTINUING WITH THAT SENTENCE, IT SAYS, "AND

THE LOWEST IN AREAS OF REDUCED HYDROPERIOD,"

MEANING, I ASSUME, THE LOWEST PEAT ACCRETION

RATES?

A. RIGHT.

Q. IS THAT CORRECT?

A. RIGHT.

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 457

Q. DID -- YOU MAY HAVE JUST ANSWERED THIS A MINUTE

AGO, BUT WAS -- DID YOU HAVE ANY FINDINGS WITH

REGARD TO AN AREA WITH LOW NUTRIENTS?

A. WELL, THE PROBLEM WAS THE AREAS THAT HAD REDUCED

HYDROPERIOD, ALSO HAD LOW NUTRIENTS, HAD LOW

PHOSPHORUS, AND SO---

Q. OKAY. SO, WHAT IS THE COMBINATION THAT IS

MISSING? YOU SAID IT WAS THE LOW NUTRIENTS AND

THE HIGH HYDROPERIOD?

A. LET ME LOOK. A SHORT HYDROPERIOD WITH HIGH

PHOSPHORUS IS WHAT IS MISSING---

Q. OKAY.

A. ---REDUCED HYDROPERIOD AND PHOSPHORUS ENRICHMENT.

Q. IN YOUR STUDIES SINCE THIS WAS ORIGINALLY PLOTTED,

HAVE YOU LOCATED ANY SITES WHERE THAT SITUATION

WOULD EXIST?

A. I HAVEN'T REALLY LOOKED FOR ANY, AND I HAVEN'T

COME ACROSS ANY JUST, YOU KNOW, LOOKING THROUGH

THE LITERATURE, EITHER.

Q. AT THE BOTTOM OF THAT PAGE, AND CONTINUING ON TO

THE NEXT PAGE, STARTING WITH THE FULL SENTENCE ON

THAT PAGE, IT SAYS THAT THE -- AND I'M GOING TO

SKIP A FEW WORDS, BUT I'LL PARAPHRASE IT --

INPUTS OF PHOSPHORUS TO THE NUTRIENT ENRICHED AREA

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 458

OF WCA 2A WERE SIX TIMES HIGHER THAN INPUTS TO THE

UNENRICHED PART OF WCTA. AS A RESULT, THE

EFFICIENCY OF PHOSPHORUS REMOVAL WAS LOWER AT THE

ENRICHED SITE, EIGHTY-SEVEN PERCENT, THAN AT THE

UNENRICHED LOCATION, ONE HUNDRED PERCENT. HOW --

HOW DOES THE SECOND SENTENCE RESULT FROM THE FIRST

SENTENCE?

A. WHAT YOU DO IS YOU COMPARE. WE HAVE THE INPUTS

HERE. FOR EXAMPLE, P IS .56 GRAMS PER METER

SQUARED PER YEAR TO THE ENRICHED SITE, AND WE

COMPARE THIS WITH THE RATE OF PHOSPHORUS

ACCUMULATION FOR THIS SITE, AND I THINK WE'D HAVE

TO GO UP. WELL, YOU CAN SEE .46 GRAMS PER METER

SQUARED PER YEAR IN THE SENTENCE RIGHT ABOVE THAT.

SO, BASICALLY, YOU JUST DIVIDE THAT .46 BY .56,

AND SO YOU GET AN EFFICIENCY OF EIGHTY-SEVEN

PERCENT. SO, EIGHTY-SEVEN PERCENT OF THAT .56

GRAMS PER METER SQUARED PER YEAR ENTERING IS

ACCUMULATING---

Q. OKAY.

A. ---AND THAT YIELDS THE .46.

Q. WHAT IS THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE REST OF THE

SENTENCE, THEN, AS FAR AS SAYING THAT IT'S SIX

TIMES HIGHER INPUT THAN THE UNENRICHED AREA?

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 459

A. IT JUST MEANS THAT IT'S RECEIVING A LOT MORE

PHOSPHORUS THAN THE UNENRICHED SITE.

Q. WAS THE FACTOR SIX TIMES HIGHER, CALCULATED INTO

THE RESULTS AT ALL, ON THE EFFICIENCY?

A. I DON'T REALLY UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION.

Q. ALL RIGHT. WELL, I BELIEVE WHAT YOU TOLD ME IS

ALL YOU DID WAS DIVIDE THE .46 BY THE .56 TO COME

UP WITH THE EIGHTY-SEVEN PERCENT. IS THAT RIGHT?

A. RIGHT.

Q. AND SO THE FACT THAT THERE WERE SIX TIMES THE

LEVEL OF PHOSPHORUS COMING INTO THE ENRICHED AREA

AS OPPOSED TO THE UNENRICHED AREA DID NOT REALLY

PLAY INTO THAT EQUATION?

A. NO. THAT JUST STATES THAT THIS AREA RECEIVES A

LOT MORE PHOSPHORUS THAN THE UNENRICHED AREA. I

MEAN, IT PLAYS INTO IT IN THE FACT THAT THAT SIX

TIMES HIGHER YIELDS THAT INPUT OF .56 GRAMS PER

METER SQUARED PER YEAR.

Q. ON THE -- ON THE EIGHTY-SEVEN PERCENT FIGURE, I

NOTE ON THE CONCLUSION ON PAGE 24, THAT IT

REFLECTS EIGHTY-FIVE PERCENT. IS THAT JUST A

TYPOGRAPHICAL ERROR?

A. THAT DEFINITELY IS SOMETHING THAT I NEED TO GO

BACK AND LOOK AT, BECAUSE, YOU SEE, I'M NOT AWARE

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 460

OF THAT. WHAT PAGE IS THAT ON?

Q. ON PAGE 24. IT'S THE SENTENCE CONTINUING ON

PAGE 24.

A. OKAY. YEAH. THAT'S SOMETHING I NEED TO ADDRESS.

Q. DO YOU KNOW, IS IT THE EIGHTY-SEVEN OR THE

EIGHTY-FIVE THAT'S THE CORRECT NUMBER?

A. IF SOMEBODY HAD A CALCULATOR AND DID THE QUICK

DIVISION.

Q. IT'S -- BUT IT'S JUST A MATTER OF THOSE

CALCULATIONS WE TALKED ABOUT?

A. RIGHT.

Q. OKAY. TURNING TO PAGE FIVE OF THE DOCUMENT,

PARAGRAPH -- THE PARAGRAPH AT THE END OF THAT

PAGE, THE FIRST SENTENCE READS THAT THE -- "THE

PRIMARY OBJECTIVE OF THIS STUDY WAS TO

CHARACTERIZE RECENT, 1964 THROUGH 1989 YEAR RATES

OF PEAT ACCRETION, NUTRIENT---"

MR. GREEN: WHAT PAGE? I'M SORRY.

MR. NETTLETON: PAGE FIVE.

Q. (BY MR. NETTLETON) "---NUTRIENTS, NITROGEN AND

PHOSPHORUS ACCUMULATION IN ORGANIC CARBON STORAGE

IN EVERGLADE SOILS, AND TO RELATE THESE RATES TO

DIFFERENT HYDROPERIOD AND NUTRIENT REGIMES." HOW

WAS THE PRIMARY OBJECTIVE OF RELATING THE RATES OF

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 461

PEAT ACCRETION TO HYDROPERIOD -- HOW WAS THE STUDY

DESIGNED TO DO THAT?

A. IT WASN'T REALLY DESIGNED TO DO THAT. AGAIN, AS I

TALKED ABOUT YESTERDAY, THE REAL LIMITATION IS

GOOD HYDROLOGY DATA, GOOD LONG-TERM HYDROLOGY DATA

FOR THESE LOCATIONS. AND SO, AGAIN, I RELIED ON

INFORMATION IN THE SWIM PLAN, WHICH IS, I THINK,

THE BEST AVAILABLE INFORMATION I COULD FIND TO TRY

TO RELATE THE PEAT ACCRETION TO HYDROPERIOD.

Q. AND AS I RECALL YOUR TESTIMONY, WAS THAT WITH THE

GROSS DATA THAT JUST REFLECTED, YOU KNOW, HEAVIER

THAN NORMAL AND LESS THAN NORMAL IN AREAS?

A. RIGHT.

Q. WELL, IF THIS WAS A PRIMARY OBJECTIVE OF THE STUDY

FROM THE OUTSET, WHY WASN'T MORE EFFORT PUT INTO

TRYING TO SET SOMETHING UP WHICH COULD MORE

ACCURATELY MEASURE THE HYDROPERIOD?

A. AGAIN, AS I MENTIONED, IF I HAD BEEN -- WHEN I

WAS, SAY, SEVEN YEARS OLD IN 1964 AND HAD THOUGHT

ABOUT DOING THIS STUDY, I MAYBE COULD HAVE TRIED

TO, YOU KNOW, SET SOMETHING UP TO MEASURE WATER

LEVELS. BUT SOMETIMES YOU JUST HAVE TO TAKE THE

BEST AVAILABLE INFORMATION THAT YOU CAN FIND AND

TRY TO RELATE IT TO YOUR INFORMATION.

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 462

Q. WELL, I THINK WE TALKED ABOUT, YESTERDAY, THE FACT

THAT THE 217 GAUGE, WHICH IS IN WCA 2A -- ARE YOU

FAMILIAR WITH THAT?

A. RIGHT.

Q. AND THAT HAD SOME HISTORICAL DATA ON HYDROPERIOD

LEVELS. IS THAT RIGHT?

A. YES. WELL, THAT'S MY UNDERSTANDING, YEAH.

Q. ARE YOU AWARE OF OTHER SUCH GAUGES OR MECHANISMS

FOR MEASURING HYDROPERIOD THAT EXIST THROUGHOUT

THE WCA'S?

A. THAT'S THE ONE I'VE HEARD ABOUT. I WOULDN'T BE

SURPRISED IF THERE'S MAYBE ONE SOMEWHERE IN

CONSERVATION AREA 3A, SEVERAL OF THEM. BUT THEN,

AGAIN, I FEEL LIKE THE INFORMATION TAKEN OUT OF

THE SWIM PLAN IS NOT A BAD OVERALL ESTIMATE OF --

I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY, THE DISTRICT BELIEVES THAT THIS

IS THE WAY THAT -- THE WAY THAT THE HYDROPERIOD

HAS CHANGED COMPARED TO HISTORICAL TIMES. AND,

SO, I'M RELYING ON THEIR INFORMATION FROM THAT

FIGURE.

Q. IF I RECALL YOUR TESTIMONY CORRECTLY FROM

YESTERDAY, YOU HAD INDICATED WHEN YOU FIRST SET UP

THIS STUDY THAT YOU WERE NOT AWARE OF THE 217

GAUGE. IS THAT---

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 463

A. RIGHT. I MEAN, WHEN I WENT OUT TO SAMPLE -- TO

COLLECT THESE SAMPLES WAS IN 1989, AND PRETTY MUCH

MY FIRST OR SECOND DAY ON THE JOB, I WAS PUT INTO

THE FIELD ALMOST IMMEDIATELY.

Q. WELL, DO YOU THINK THAT IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA TO

BE TAKING SAMPLES FROM THOSE AREAS WHERE THERE IS

HISTORICAL DATA ON HYDROPERIOD?

A. YEAH. I THINK THAT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA.

Q. HOW LONG HAVE YOU KNOWN ABOUT THE 217 GAUGE?

A. MAYBE SEVERAL YEARS. I DON'T -- YOU KNOW,

CERTAINLY FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS, I WOULD THINK.

Q. HAS THERE BEEN ANY DISCUSSIONS CONCERNING TAKING

SAMPLINGS FROM THAT AREA?

A. NO, WE HAVEN'T REALLY TALKED ABOUT THAT.

Q. AND YOU DON'T HAVE ANY PLANS TO DO THAT AT THIS

POINT?

A. NO. BUT WE MAY RETHINK THOSE PLANS TO -- TO TRY

TO ADDRESS THAT QUESTION, ALTHOUGH I'M SURE THERE

ARE OTHER RESEARCHERS WHO ALSO THINK IT MIGHT BE

WORTHWHILE ADDRESSING THAT SAME QUESTION.

Q. DO YOU KNOW IF DR. RICHARDSON MIGHT BE TAKING ANY

SAMPLES FROM THAT AREA AT THIS TIME, OR IN THE

RECENT FEW YEARS?

A. I DON'T KNOW, BUT I DON'T THINK SO, BECAUSE I'M

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 464

USUALLY INVOLVED WITH HIM IN TAKING THESE AND

DOING THIS TYPE OF WORK.

Q. WHAT ABOUT DR. RADER?

A. HE'S A -- HE'S MORE OF AN INVERTEBRATE PERSON, YOU

KNOW, A COMMUNITY PERSON. HE, I DO NOT THINK,

WOULD BE INVOLVED IN THIS SORT OF WORK EITHER.

Q. AS FAR AS YOU KNOW, NO ONE FROM THE DUKE WETLAND

CENTER IS TAKING SAMPLES AROUND OF THE -- ANY

MECHANISMS SUCH AS THE 217 GAUGE?

A. I DON'T THINK SO, BUT I'M NOT A HUNDRED PERCENT

SURE, BUT I'M PRETTY SURE ABOUT IT.

Q. GOING TO -- GOING BACK TO THE FIRST PAGE OF THE

DOCUMENT, ON THE INPUTS OF PHOSPHORUS -- DO YOU

HAVE THAT -- .56?

A. YES.

Q. IS THAT THE LOADING RATE THAT YOU'RE USING?

A. THAT IS, AGAIN, SOME DATA THAT I GOT FROM THE -- I

THINK FROM THE SOUTH FLORIDA WATER MANAGEMENT

DISTRICT, FROM THE SWIM PLAN.

Q. OKAY. DO YOU KNOW WHAT AREA WAS USED TO CALCULATE

THAT NUMBER?

A. NO, I WOULD HAVE TO GO BACK AND LOOK THAT UP.

Q. DO YOU BELIEVE THAT CAME FROM THE SWIM PLAN?

A. I THINK SO.

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 465

Q. TURNING TO PAGE 13 IN THE DOCUMENT, THIS FIRST

FULL PARAGRAPH REFERS TO THE LEAD 210 MEASUREMENTS

THAT WERE DONE. IS THAT RIGHT?

A. YES.

Q. AND, AM I CORRECT, THAT WAS ONLY DONE ON ONE CORE?

A. RIGHT, THAT'S ALL THAT IS AT THIS TIME.

Q. WHY WAS ONLY ONE CORE USED FOR THAT MEASUREMENT?

A. THE FOCUS OF THE STUDY WAS TO REALLY LOOK AT THESE

RECENT CHANGES IN ACCRETION, WHICH CESIUM IS

AMENABLE TO, SINCE IT'S A -- THE ACCRETION RATE

OVER THE PAST 25 TO 30 YEARS, AND THE LEAD IS JUST

VERY TIME CONSUMING. WE ARE -- WE'RE CONTINUING

TO TRY TO DO THAT KIND OF WORK. BUT IN THE PAST,

IT HAS NOT BEEN AS HIGH A PRIORITY.

Q. ARE YOU CURRENTLY ENGAGED IN CONTINUING ANY OF THE

LEAD 210 TESTING ON ANY EXISTING CORES?

A. OH, YES.

Q. OKAY. WHAT'S THE STATUS OF THAT AT THIS POINT?

A. IN FACT, WE HOPEFULLY HAVE HAD ABOUT TEN MORE

SAMPLES COUNTED IN THE PAST COUPLE OF WEEKS. I

HAVE NO SHORTAGE OF SOIL SAMPLES TO WHICH TO DO

THE ANALYSIS. AND THE PROBLEM IS IS JUST THE TIME

CONSTRAINTS. IT'S SOMETHING THAT I WOULD REALLY

LIKE TO DO, BUT I JUST DON'T HAVE THE TIME, SO

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 466

WE'RE KIND OF DOING IT WHEN WE CAN.

Q. IS THIS BEING DONE ON THE CORES THAT WERE TAKEN

FOR PURPOSES OF THIS REPORT?

A. A COUPLE OF THESE CORES. BUT, ALSO, WE'VE

COLLECTED SOME MORE RECENT CORES TO LOOK AT IT

ALSO.

Q. WHEN WERE THESE RECENT CORES COLLECTED?

A. IN THE PAST YEAR, AND I'D HAVE TO GO BACK AND SEE

WHEN -- WHEN THEY WERE COLLECTED. WE HAVEN'T DONE

ANYTHING WITH THEM, EXCEPT GROUND THEM UP AND

GOTTEN THEM READY.

Q. WHO -- WHO TOOK THOSE CORES? WERE YOU INVOL---

A. I TOOK THEM---

Q. OKAY.

A. ---AND THERE MAY HAVE BEEN SOMEBODY HELPING ME,

BUT---

Q. WHERE WERE THE CORES TAKEN FROM?

A. WE TOOK ONE FROM THE INTERIOR OF CONSERVATION AREA

3A, CLOSE TO THE LOCATION, THE INTERIOR LOCATION

IN THIS PAPER. AND WE TOOK ANOTHER CORE FROM -- I

THINK IT'S 10C6, A LOCATION IN THE -- IN PROBABLY

ONE OF THESE PAPERS WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT,

NUMBER SIXTEEN, CLOSE TO THAT POINT.

Q. WHAT WAS THE PURPOSE OF THESE CORE SAMPLINGS?

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 467

A. I WOULD LIKE TO TRY TO GET A BETTER HANDLE ON THE

HISTORICAL RATES, OR GET A HANDLE ON THE

HISTORICAL RATES OF PEAT ACCRETION, AND I THINK

THE LEAD MAY ALLOW US TO DO THAT.

Q. WERE THE LOCATIONS -- WELL, HOW WERE THE LOCATIONS

CHOSEN?

A. THEY ARE LOCATIONS THAT WE HAD SAMPLED PREVIOUSLY

FOR THE CESIUM WORK, SO WE WENT BACK TO TWO OF

THESE LOCATIONS.

Q. AND THOSE WERE THE LOCATIONS THAT WERE SAMPLED

FOR PURPOSES OF THIS REPORT THAT WE'RE TALKING

ABOUT?

A. FROM ONE LOCATION IN THIS REPORT AND THEN ONE

LOCATION IN THIS NUMBER SIXTEEN, THE PEAT

ACCRETION.

Q. EXHIBIT SIXTEEN?

A. RIGHT.

Q. OKAY. DO YOU KNOW OF ANYONE, OTHER THAN YOURSELF,

WHO IS CURRENTLY INVOLVED IN DOING ANY LEAD 210

MEASUREMENTS ON CORES?

A. I BELIEVE THERE IS SOMEBODY AT THE UNIVERSITY OF

FLORIDA WHO IS DOING SOME LEAD 210 WORK. I'M NOT

SURE TO WHAT EXTENT IN RELATION TO WHAT THEY'RE

DOING IT FOR. BUT I GAVE A PRESENTATION THERE

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 468

ABOUT NINE MONTHS AGO, AND ONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO

CAME TO SEE THE TALK, TALKED ABOUT THAT THEY WERE

DOING THAT KIND OR WORK, OR THEY WERE GEARING UP

TO DO IT.

Q. WITH REGARD TO CORES FROM THE EVERGLADES AREA?

A. I THINK THEY -- THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT DOING THE

ENTIRE AREA, FROM CONSERVATION AREA 1 ALL THE WAY

DOWN TO THE PARK, IS WHAT -- WHAT THEY WERE HOPING

TO DO.

Q. AND WHO IS THIS YOU WERE TALKING WITH?

A. I CAN'T THINK OF HIS NAME. HE'S A GRADUATE

STUDENT, AND I THINK HE WORKS FOR JOE -- AND FOR

JOE DELFINO, WHO I THINK IS IN ENVIRONMENTAL

ENGINEERING, OR HE'S CHAIRMAN OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL

ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT THERE. IF I SAW HIS NAME,

I'D PROBABLY RECOGNIZE IT, BUT---

Q. ANYBODY ELSE AT THE DUKE WETLAND CENTER, TO YOUR

KNOWLEDGE---

A. HUH-UH (NO).

Q. ---DOING ANY LEAD 210 TESTING?

A. NO. THAT'S MY -- MY DOMAIN AT THIS POINT.

Q. DO YOU ACTUALLY DO WHATEVER WORK NEEDS TO BE DONE

TO DO THAT YOURSELF?

A. WE DO THE DIGESTION AND THE PLATING, AND WE HAVE,

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 469

UP 'TIL NOW, HAVING SOMEBODY WHO HAS THE

CAPABILITY TO DO THE COUNTING FOR US. WE HOPE TO

GET THAT SET UP. WE HAVE THE INSTRUMENTATION. WE

JUST DON'T HAVE IT SET UP YET.

Q. I MEAN, DO YOU SEND SOME OF THIS OUT TO OUTSIDE

LABS, OR---

A. I SEND IT TO SOMEBODY I COLLABORATE WITH AT NORTH

CAROLINA STATE UNIVERSITY.

Q. WHO'S THAT?

A. HIS NAME IS DAVE DeMASTER.

Q. WHAT'S YOUR -- WHAT'S YOUR PERSONAL INVOLVEMENT IN

OVERSEEING THESE MEASUREMENTS?

A. IN TERMS OF THE COUNTING?

Q. UH-HUH (YES).

A. HE DOES THE COUNTING, AND HE'S BEEN DOING LEAD 210

FOR FIFTEEN YEARS. HE'S A TENURED PROFESSOR THERE

AND DOES WORK WITH LEAD 210 ON THE AMAZON SHELF,

OUT IN THE ATLANTIC OCEAN. HE DOES WORK IN THE

ANTARCTIC RELATING TO LEAD 210, SO I HAVE NO

PROBLEMS WITH THAT---

Q. OKAY.

A. ---I'M NINETY PERCENT -- NINETY-NINE PERCENT

CONFIDENT THAT HE'S DOING VERY GOOD WORK.

Q. ALL RIGHT. I THINK THAT YOU MISUNDERSTOOD MY

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 470

QUESTION. MY QUESTION WAS, WHAT WAS YOUR PERSONAL

INVOLVEMENT?

A. MY PERSONAL INVOLVEMENT IS EVERYTHING BUT THE

COUNTING, PRETTY MUCH. I TAKE THE SAMPLES. I DO

SOME OF THE GRINDING, ALTHOUGH WE HAVE GRADUATE

STUDENTS WHO DO THAT NOW. I'M INVOLVED IN THE

DIGESTIONS. I PRETTY MUCH AM IN CHARGE OF THAT,

ALTHOUGH I HAVE STUDENTS HELP ME WITH IT

SOMETIMES. AND I'M INVOLVED IN THE PLATING,

ALTHOUGH I HAVE STUDENTS HELP ME WITH THAT

SOMETIMES.

Q. NOW, IF I RECALL CORRECTLY, YOUR TESTIMONY

YESTERDAY WAS THAT THE ONE CORE THAT HAS --

THAT'S REFLECTED AS TESTED UNDER THE LEAD 210

MEASUREMENTS IN THIS REPORT, WAS FROM AN ENRICHED

AREA. IS THAT CORRECT?

A. THAT'S CORRECT.

Q. OKAY. AND THEN THE END OF THAT PARAGRAPH COMPARES

THAT TO AN UNENRICHED AREA OF THE EVERGLADES. IS

THAT RIGHT?

A. TO A BUNCH OF UNENRICHED AREAS.

Q. THE -- THE FIGURE 2.33---

A. YES.

Q. ---PLUS OR MINUS .24, WHERE DOES THAT FIGURE COME

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 471

FROM?

A. THAT IS THE MEAN OF ALL THE UNENRICHED CORES THAT

WE'VE COLLECTED, A TOTAL OF THIRTEEN.

Q. UNDER THE -- AND THAT'S THE MEASUREMENT UNDER THE

CESIUM ANALYSIS?

A. RIGHT.

Q. DID I SAY THAT RIGHT -- CESIUM?

A. YES, THAT'S CORRECT.

Q. CAN THE CORE SAMPLE PREPARATION AFFECT THE LEAD

210 RESULTS YOU GET?

A. IF YOU DON'T WEIGH OUT THE SAMPLE CORRECTLY, YOU

CAN HAVE PROBLEMS. THE GRINDING AND THAT SORT OF

PROCEDURE, I DON'T THINK THAT THERE ARE PROBLEMS

WITH, UNLESS YOU WERE TO GRIND IT IN A LEAD

CONTAINER, WHICH OF COURSE WE DON'T DO ANYTHING

LIKE THAT. WE ALSO USE A TRACER. THE TECHNIQUE

USES A TRACER THAT ALLOWS A LOT BETTER RESOLUTION

OF DEALING WITH THE LEAD.

Q. IS THERE ANY PROBLEM USING A LEAD 210 ANALYSIS

WITH COMPACTION? CAN THAT HAVE AN EFFECT ON IT?

A. WELL, ANY ACCRETION -- ANY WAY YOU MEASURE

ACCRETION COULD BE AFFECTED BY COMPACTION.

Q. ON PAGE 16, ON EXHIBIT NUMBER FIVE, THE PARAGRAPH

AT THE END OF THAT PAGE, THE SECOND SENTENCE

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 472

READS, "THE MEAN SURFACE SOIL PHOSPHORUS

CONCENTRATIONS WERE MUCH HIGHER IN THE NUTRIENT

ENRICHED PART OF WCA 2A, COMPARED TO ALL THEIR

SITES." WHAT DOES THAT MEAN EXACTLY?

A. IT JUST MEANS THAT THE SURFACE SOIL CONCENTRATIONS

ARE HIGHER IN THE ENRICHED SITE AS COMPARED TO THE

OTHER SITES.

Q. I GUESS MY -- MAYBE I SHOULD REPHRASE MY QUESTION.

I MEAN, WHAT DOES THAT -- WHAT DOES THAT LEAD YOU

TO CONCLUDE? I MEAN, AS A RESULT OF THIS FINDING,

WHAT -- DO YOU REACH ANY CONCLUSIONS AS A RESULT

OF THAT?

A. THAT PHOSPHORUS ENRICHMENT OF THE SOIL IS

OCCURRING AT THAT LOCATION, IS MY CONCLUSION.

Q. ALL RIGHT, ON THE NEXT PAGE, PAGE 17, THE FIRST

SENTENCE, "SOIL PHOSPHORUS EXHIBITED A MARKED

DECREASE WITH DEPTH AT ALL LOCATIONS." WHAT DO

YOU CONCLUDE FROM THAT FINDING?

A. THAT SUGGESTS TO ME THAT PHOSPHORUS IS LIMITING

IN THESE SYSTEMS, AND IT'S HIGHER IN THE SURFACE,

BECAUSE I THINK RECYCLING BY THE VEGETATION AND

THE ORGANISMS THERE, NEAR AND AT THE SOIL

SURFACE.

Q. IS THAT PRETTY MUCH WHAT YOU STATE IN THE

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 473

SENTENCES FOLLOWING THAT -- THE LAST SENTENCE

OF THE PARAGRAPH TALKS ABOUT THE EFFICIENT

RECYCLING?

A. YES, I THINK THAT KIND OF SUMMARIZES IT.

Q. ON PAGE 18 OF THE REPORT, THE PARAGRAPH BEGINNING

ON LINE 21, YOU SAY, "IN CONTRAST TO NITROGEN,

PHOSPHORUS ACCUMULATION WAS MORE A FUNCTION OF THE

PHOSPHORUS CONTENT OF THE SOIL THAN THE RATE OF

PEAT ACCRETION." FIRST OF ALL, HOW DO YOU

CONCLUDE THAT?

A. WHAT I'M SAYING HERE IS THAT IN -- FOR EXAMPLE,

WITH NITROGEN, YOU NEED SEVERAL NUMBERS TO

CALCULATE ACCUMULATION RATE OF NITROGEN. YOU NEED

THE NITROGEN CONTENT OF THE SOIL. YOU NEED THE

BULK DENSITY, AND YOU NEED THE ACCRETION RATE.

AND WITH NITROGEN, YOU SEE HIGHER RATES OF

ACCUMULATION, BUT IT'S ONLY BECAUSE THE RATE OF

PEAT ACCRETION AT THE SITE IS HIGHER. THE

NITROGEN CONTENT IN THE SOILS IS PRETTY MUCH

SIMILAR FROM ONE LOCATION TO THE NEXT. SO, IF YOU

SEE -- WHEN YOU SEE AN INCREASE IN NITROGEN

ACCUMULATION, IT'S REALLY JUST DUE TO THE FACT

THAT PEAT ACCRETION IS HIGHER. BUT, WITH

PHOSPHORUS, WHEN YOU SEE A HIGHER RATE OF

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 474

PHOSPHORUS ACCUMULATION AT A SITE, OR AT THAT

ENRICHED SITE, FOR EXAMPLE, IT'S BECAUSE OF TWO

THINGS. ONE, SOIL P IS HIGHER THERE, BUT ALSO THE

RATE OF ACCRETION IS HIGHER THERE, TOO.

Q. I GUESS I'M -- AGAIN, EXCUSE MY IGNORANCE, BUT

I'M -- I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THIS. AND ARE YOU

SAYING THAT THE -- THAT THE RATE OF PHOSPHORUS

ACCUMULATION IS -- IS A FACTOR OF THE PHOSPHORUS

CONTENT IN THE SOIL?

A. YES, BECAUSE THAT'S ONE OF THE NUMBERS THAT YOU

HAVE TO MEASURE TO CALCULATE THE ACCUMULATION

RATE.

Q. WHY IS THE SOIL PHOSPHORUS HIGHER IN THE ENRICHED

SITE?

A. AGAIN, I WOULD THINK THAT AGRICULTURAL -- THE

PUMPED AGRICULTURAL DRAINAGE FLOWING INTO THE

NORTHERN PART OF CONSERVATION AREA 2A HAS A LOT

TO DO WITH THE ACCUMULATION OF PHOSPHORUS IN THE

SOIL.

Q. THE NEXT SENTENCE READS THAT "THE NUTRIENT

ENRICHED AREA OF WCA 2A HAD BY FAR THE HIGHEST

RATE OF PHOSPHORUS ACCUMULATION." IS THAT --

IS THAT CONCLUSION ALTERED AT ALL BY YOUR

FINDINGS THAT ARE INCLUDED IN EXHIBIT NUMBER

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 475

SIXTEEN?

A. NO. THEY JUST SUPPORT THE -- BASICALLY,

NUMBER SIXTEEN -- LET'S BACK UP. NUMBER FIVE

LOOKED AT A LOT OF DIFFERENT AREAS, IN 2A, 2B AND

3A. AND WE SAW THIS ENRICHED AREA IN 2A BELOW THE

HILLSBORO CANAL. SO, NUMBER SIXTEEN SAYS, LET'S

GO TO THAT LOCATION AND DO MORE IN-DEPTH WORK

THERE. SO -- SO, REALLY, IN SIXTEEN IS JUST A

MORE IN-DEPTH TREATMENT OF THIS -- THIS AREA THAT

HAD THE .46 GRAMS PER METER SQUARED PER YEAR.

Q. GOING BACK TO THAT FIRST SENTENCE AGAIN, IS --

WERE YOU ABLE TO DIVIDE -- FOR LACK OF A BETTER

TERM -- THE FACTOR OF PHOSPHORUS CONTENT OF SOIL,

VERSUS THE RATE OF PEAT ACCRETION, AND HOW EACH

ONE OF THOSE INFLUENCE THE PHOSPHORUS ACCUMULATION

RATE?

A. WELL, WE DIDN'T REALLY DO IT IN A TRUE -- IN A

QUANTITATIVE WAY. BUT I THINK YOU CAN LOOK AT THE

NUMBERS HERE AT THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE, AND SEE,

FOR EXAMPLE -- OKAY, WE SEE THAT .46 NUMBER IN THE

NORTHERN PART OF 2A. YOU GO TO LINE 27, AND YOU

SEE NUMBERS .18 TO .23, AND THESE ARE LOWER

NUMBERS, BUT THEY'RE -- THESE -- THIS AREA HAS

EXTENDED HYDROPERIOD, BUT NO PHOSPHORUS

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 476

ENRICHMENT. AND, AGAIN, I THINK THAT, AS I SAY

HERE, PHOSPHORUS ACCUMULATION WAS MORE A FUNCTION

OF P CONTENT THAN PEAT ACCRETION, AND THAT'S WHY

YOU GET THIS -- I WOULD SAY -- I MEAN, I CAN'T

GIVE YOU A PERCENTAGE IMPORTANCE -- BUT THAT THE

PHOSPHORUS CONCENTRATION IN THE SOIL AT THAT SITE

IS MORE OF A CONTROLLING FACTOR YIELDING THE

HIGHER ACCUMULATION RATE, THAN IS THE ENHANCED

RATE OF PEAT ACCRETION.

Q. MAYBE I'M JUST HAVING A -- I JUST MISUNDERSTAND

THE SCIENCE THAT'S INVOLVED HERE -- BUT HOW DOES

PHOSPHORUS CONTENT IN SOIL AFFECT PHOSPHORUS

ACCUMULATION?

A. AGAIN, I NEED A BLACKBOARD, ALMOST, BECAUSE THIS

NUMBER, P ACCUMULATION, GRAMS PER METER SQUARED

PER YEAR, IS CALCULATED BY MULTIPLYING PHOSPHORUS

CONCENTRATION, TIMES ACCRETION RATE, TIMES BULK

DENSITY. SO, IF YOU DON'T HAVE ONE OF THOSE THREE

NUMBERS, YOU CAN'T CALCULATE THE ACCUMULATION

RATE. SO, I DON'T KNOW IF I'M ANSWERING THE

QUESTION, BUT YOU NEED THOSE -- YOU NEED SOIL P

CONCENTRATION, AND YOU NEED ACCRETION RATE TO

CALCULATE ACCUMULATION RATE.

(THEREUPON, MR. NETTLETON

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 477

AND MR. GRIMSHAW CONFER.)

(THEREUPON, THERE WAS AN

OFF-THE-RECORD DISCUSSION

WHICH WAS NOT REPORTED

BY THE COURT REPORTER.)

Q. (BY MR. NETTLETON) WE WERE DISCUSSING YESTERDAY

POLLEN ANALYSIS---

A. YES.

Q. ---AND YOU INDICATED THAT THERE WAS A GRAD STUDENT

THAT WOULD BE DOING SOME WORK ON POLLEN ANALYSIS

FROM THE PEAT ACCRETION CORES?

A. UH-HUH (YES). WE HOPE TO DO THAT, YES.

Q. OKAY. IS THERE A GRAD STUDENT ASSIGNED TO THAT

PROJECT AT THIS POINT?

A. UH-HUH (YES). WE DO HAVE ONE.

Q. WHAT IS HIS OR HER NAME?

A. HER NAME IS SUE BARTOW.

Q. B-A-R-T-O-W?

A. RIGHT.

Q. WHAT IS THE STATUS OF THAT RIGHT NOW?

A. I THINK THIS WEEK I SHOWED HER WHERE THE SAMPLES

WERE, BUT WE HAVEN'T EVEN STARTED THE EXTRACTION

YET. I THINK WE HOPE TO START THE END OF NEXT

WEEK. BUT, AGAIN, POLLEN IS LIKE LEAD, AND IT

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 478

WILL BE A VERY LONG, TEDIOUS, SLOW PROCESS.

Q. DO YOU HAVE ANY COMPLETION DATE IN MIND?

A. NO. AGAIN, I FIND IT INTERESTING WORK, BUT IN

TERMS OF THE OVERALL RESEARCH, IT'S NOT CONSIDERED

A HIGH -- AS HIGH A PRIORITY.

Q. WHAT'S THE OBJECTIVE OF THE RESEARCH IN THIS

PARTICULAR INSTANCE?

A. AGAIN, I THINK POLLEN AND LEAD ARE WAYS TO TRY TO

LOOK AT HISTORICAL RATES OF PEAT ACCRETION, THAT

IS, OVER THE PAST ONE HUNDRED YEARS, AS COMPARED

TO CESIUM, WHICH IS JUST FOR THE PAST TWENTY-FIVE

YEARS.

Q. WHO'S FUNDING THIS RESEARCH?

A. THIS IS FUNDED THROUGH THE WETLAND CENTER, UNDER

THE SAME---

Q. EPD?

A. YEAH, THE SAME GRANT THAT FUNDS ME.

Q. WHEN DID THIS PROJECT FIRST HIT THE BLACKBOARD, SO

TO SPEAK?

A. I'VE HAD IT IN MIND FOR A YEAR OR TWO. IT'S JUST,

AGAIN, A TIME CONSTRAINT.

Q. WHAT IS SUE BARTOW'S GRADUATE STUDENT STATUS?

A. SHE'S BEEN THERE ONE SEMESTER. SHE STARTED THIS

FALL, SO.

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 479

Q. SO, HOW MUCH LONGER DOES SHE HAVE?

A. A YEAR AND A HALF. BUT THEN, AGAIN, IF SHE WORKS

WITH ME, IT MIGHT TAKE TWO AND A HALF YEARS, SO,

YOU CAN ASK MY PREVIOUS STUDENTS ABOUT THAT.

THAT'S A SORE POINT.

Q. DID -- DO YOU HAVE -- IF YOU DON'T HAVE A

COMPLETION DATE IN MIND AT THIS POINT, DO YOU HAVE

A START DATE IN MIND?

A. WELL, I HOPE SHE -- WE HOPE TO DO -- START TO

PROCESS TWENTY SAMPLES BEFORE CHRISTMAS. THAT'S

OUR GOAL---

Q. BUT THAT---

A. ---WHEN SHE'S THROUGH WITH EXAMS.

Q. ---BUT THAT HAS NOT STARTED YET?

A. NO.

Q. LOOKING BACK AT THE THREE AND A HALF YEARS, WITH

THE TWENTY/TWENTY HINDSIGHT THAT WE HAVE NOW, IF

YOU HAD IT TO DO OVER AGAIN, WOULD YOU REDESIGN

THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT TO TAKE SAMPLES AROUND THE

217 GAUGE?

A. I THINK I WOULD CERTAINLY CONSIDER IT MORE THAN I

HAVE IN THE PAST. I THINK, YOU KNOW, THAT

PROVIDES SOME GOOD INFORMATION, AND WE MIGHT DO

IT. THE PROBLEM WITH DOING SOMETHING LIKE THAT,

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 480

IS -- THAT I SEE -- IS I COULD GO OUT AND COLLECT

ONE OR TWO CORES AND PROVIDE SOME INFORMATION,

BUT I PROBABLY COULD NOT GET IT PUBLISHED,

BECAUSE IT WOULDN'T BE ENOUGH SAMPLES IN THE

CONTEXT OF A PAPER. BUT THEN, AGAIN, YOU KNOW,

IT'S EASY TO COLLECT THE CORES, AND JUST PUT THEM

IN STORAGE UNTIL YOU HAVE TIME TO DO SOMETHING

WITH THEM.

Q. YESTERDAY, MS. PONZOLI ASKED YOU A QUESTION, AND

IF MY NOTES ARE CORRECT, THAT IT WAS, THAT IF WE

HELD PHOSPHORUS CONSTANT, AND INCREASED THE WATER

LEVELS OR THE HYDROPERIOD, COULD THAT INCREASE

PEAT ACCRETION? AND I BELIEVE YOUR TESTIMONY WAS

THAT IT COULD INCREASE PEAT ACCRETION.

A. RIGHT.

Q. IS THAT CORRECT?

A. I THINK SO, YES.

Q. DO YOU THINK IT IS MORE LIKELY THAN NOT, THAT

IF -- THAT THAT WOULD OCCUR?

A. COULD YOU REPEAT THE QUESTION? I THOUGHT I

UNDERSTOOD IT, BUT I'M NOT SO SURE.

Q. WELL, DO YOU THINK IN -- BASED UPON YOUR

QUALIFICATIONS AND YOUR RESEARCH IN THIS AREA, DO

YOU THINK IT'S MORE LIKELY THAN NOT, THAT IF YOU

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 481

HELD PHOSPHORUS CONSTANT, THAT IF YOU INCREASED

WATER, WATER LEVELS OR HYDROPERIOD, THAT THIS

WOULD INCREASE PEAT ACCRETION?

A. YES, I THINK YOU COULD -- YOU WOULD LIKELY -- YOU

PROBABLY WOULD SEE AN INCREASE IN PEAT ACCRETION

BY INCREASING THE HYDROPERIOD.

Q. OKAY. NOW, LET ME ASK YOU THE FLIP SIDE, BASED

UPON THE SAME THING, YOUR EXPERIENCE IN THIS AREA,

IF YOU HELD THE HYDROPERIOD CONSTANT, WOULD YOU

THINK IT MORE LIKELY THAN NOT THAT IF YOU

INCREASED PHOSPHORUS, YOU WOULD INCREASE PEAT

ACCRETION?

A. YEAH, I THINK YOU WOULD INCREASE -- YOU COULD

LIKELY INCREASE PEAT ACCRETION, TOO, BY -- BY

PHOSPHORUS -- BY ADDING PHOSPHORUS.

Q. BASED UPON YOUR WORK IN THE EVERGLADES, WHAT HAVE

YOU LEARNED ABOUT THE CESIUM 137 METHOD?

A. IT SEEMS TO WORK PRETTY DANG WELL IN THE

EVERGLADES. AND I THINK THAT'S GOOD.

Q. WOULD YOU AGREE THAT THE -- THAT IF -- FIRST OF

ALL, LET ME ASK YOU THIS. WERE REPLICATES TAKEN

OF THE CORE SAMPLES FOR THIS, THAT WERE USED IN

THIS REPORT?

A. FOR THIS PAPER, THERE WERE REPLICATES, YES.

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 482

Q. WERE THE CESIUM 137 RESULTS RUN ON EACH OF THE

REPLICATES?

A. OH, YES. AND THEY'RE IN THE PAPER.

Q. AND THOSE ARE ALL REFLECTED IN THE TABLES?

A. UH-HUH (YES).

Q. ON PAGE 19 OF THE REPORT, BEGINNING ON LINE 12,

THE SENTENCE THAT -- AGAIN, I'LL PARAPHRASE IT A

LITTLE BIT -- "AS A RESULT, THE EFFICIENCY OF

PHOSPHORUS REMOVAL AT THE ENRICHED LOCATION,

EIGHTY-SEVEN PERCENT, WAS LESS AS COMPARED TO THE

UNENRICHED SITE, ONE HUNDRED TO ONE HUNDRED AND

THIRTY-THREE PERCENT, SUGGESTING THAT THE ENRICHED

AREA MAY BE APPROACHING SATURATION WITH RESPECT TO

PHOSPHORUS ACCUMULATION." WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY

SATURATION?

A. I DON'T KNOW. I'M GOING TO HAVE TO RETHINK THAT

WORD SINCE IT'S GOTTEN SO MUCH ATTENTION FOR THE

PAST TWO DAYS. WHAT I MEAN IS THAT SINCE THE

EFFICIENCY IS LESS, HAS GONE -- IS LESS THAN A

HUNDRED PERCENT, THAT MAYBE IT'S NOT ABLE TO HOLD

ALL THE -- WELL, THE DATA SUGGESTS THAT IT'S NOT

HOLDING ALL THE PHOSPHORUS THAT COMES INTO THE

SYSTEM.

Q. DO YOU STILL, IN LIGHT OF THE DATA THAT YOU'VE

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 483

USED, THAT IS INCORPORATED INTO EXHIBIT NUMBER

SIXTEEN, DO YOU STILL HOLD THE OPINION THAT THERE

MAY BE A SATURATION PROBLEM?

A. WELL, I THINK -- AND I STATED THIS BEFORE -- THAT

THERE MAY BE A PROBLEM. I MEAN, THE DATA SUGGESTS

THAT THE AREA CAN STORE APPROXIMATELY FIFTY METRIC

TONS OF P PER YEAR, AND I THINK THAT THERE IS A

POSSIBLE CONCERN THAT LOADINGS GREATER THAN THAT,

YOU KNOW, SUBSTANTIALLY GREATER THAN THAT, WILL

NOT -- THE EXCESS WILL NOT BE STORED AND IT WILL

POTENTIALLY MOVE DOWNSTREAM.

Q. I THINK WHEN YOU WERE DISCUSSING THIS WITH REGARD

TO SOME OF YOUR FINDINGS IN -- IN EXHIBIT NUMBER

SIXTEEN YESTERDAY -- WELL, LET ME STRIKE THAT. IF

WE HAD A HUNDRED PERCENT ACCUMULATION, WOULD THAT

INDICATE EITHER EQUILIBRIUM, OR WE AREN'T AT A

SATURATION LEVEL?

A. I THINK IT WOULD -- YEAH, I THINK IT WOULD

INDICATE THAT, THAT PERHAPS IT'S UNDERSATURATED,

IF IT CAN STORE ONE HUNDRED PERCENT.

Q. AND IF WE HAVE A HUNDRED PERCENT ACCUMULATION,

THEN AM I CORRECT THAT THERE WOULD BE NO ADVANCING

FRONT, AS THAT TERM'S BEEN USED?

A. I THINK THAT THAT WOULD BE POSSIBLE. I MEAN, I'M

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 484

NOT GOING TO EMPHATICALLY STATE THAT A HUNDRED

PERCENT MEANS THAT THERE WILL NEVER BE A FRONT

ADVANCING, BUT IT SUGGESTS THAT WHAT -- WHAT IS

BEING ADDED TO THE SYSTEM, ALL OF IT IS BEING

STORED.

Q. I BELIEVE YESTERDAY, AGAIN, WHEN WE WERE

DISCUSSING EXHIBIT NUMBER SIXTEEN, AND THIS SAME

CONCEPT OF THE POTENTIAL SATURATION THAT'S

REFLECTED IN EXHIBIT NUMBER FIVE, THAT YOU HAD

INDICATED THAT PERHAPS THE EIGHTY-SEVEN PERCENT,

AND ITS RELATIONSHIP TO BEING A HUNDRED PERCENT,

WAS CLOSE ENOUGH THAT THAT MIGHT FALL WITHIN THE

RANGE OF POSSIBLE ERROR IN YOUR CALCULATIONS?

A. IT COULD, ESPECIALLY BASED ON THE LIMITED NUMBER

OF SAMPLES THAT WERE TAKEN FOR THIS STUDY.

Q. ALL RIGHT. SO, IF -- IF, IN FACT, THE

EIGHTY-SEVEN PERCENT WERE A HUNDRED PERCENT, THEN

WE WOULD NOT HAVE A SATURATION SITUATION?

A. I WOULD FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE, CERTAINLY, IF IT

WAS A HUNDRED PERCENT.

Q. AND THERE WAS SOME DISCUSSION YESTERDAY ABOUT

LOOKING INTO SODIUM ENRICHMENT, AND WHETHER THAT

WAS AFFECTING CATTAIL PROLIFERATION. IS THAT

RIGHT?

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 485

A. YES.

Q. OKAY. AND I BELIEVE YOU INDICATED THAT, AS A

RESULT OF YOUR FINDINGS, THAT YOU DID NOT SEE ANY

CORRELATION BETWEEN THE SODIUM ENRICHMENT AND THE

CATTAIL PROLIFERATION?

A. I DON'T SEE ANY, YES.

Q. AND YOU MENTIONED, I BELIEVE THERE WAS A GRAD

STUDENT INVOLVED IN DOING THAT RESEARCH, AS WELL.

DO---

A. YES.

Q. WHAT WAS HER NAME?

A. JANE RAIKES.

Q. AND HOW DO YOU SPELL HER LAST NAME?

A. R-A-I-K-E-S.

Q. AND WHAT IS HER STATUS AT THE UNIVERSITY RIGHT

NOW?

A. SHE IS ON -- ON TARGET TO GRADUATE THIS

MONTH---

Q. THIS MONTH?

A. ---WHICH WILL BE GREAT, I THINK.

Q. OKAY. YOU INDICATED, I BELIEVE, THAT THIS --

THIS RESEARCH WAS DONE OR IT WAS LOOKED INTO

BECAUSE OF SOME PRELIMINARY DATA WHICH INDICATED

THAT SODIUM MIGHT HAVE AN EFFECT ON CATTAIL

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 486

PROLIFERATION. IS THAT RIGHT?

A. NO. IT WAS MORE BASED ON THE IDEA THAT THERE WAS

SODIUM ACCUMULATING IN SOME OF THESE AREAS, THAT

THERE SEEMED TO BE SOME -- THERE'S EVIDENCE OF

SODIUM ENRICHMENT IN PARTS OF -- OF NORTHERN

WCA 2A.

Q. WHAT DATA ARE YOU REFERRING TO WHEN YOU SAY THERE

WAS EVIDENCE OF THIS SODIUM?

A. SOME DATA ON -- NOT IN THIS PAPER, BUT IN ONE OF

THE ANNUAL REPORTS, WHERE WE TOOK SOME PRELIMINARY

CORES AND MEASURED PEAT ACCRETION AND SODIUM

CONCENTRATIONS, AND WE FOUND THAT THERE WERE SOME

AREAS NEAR THE "C" AND THE "D" GATES THAT SHOWED

EVIDENCE OF THIS SODIUM ENRICHMENT.

Q. OKAY. WERE YOU SPECIFICALLY LOOKING FOR SODIUM

ENRICHMENT AT THAT TIME, OR HOW DID YOU GO

ABOUT---

A. WE WERE MEASURING SEVEN OR EIGHT DIFFERENT

ELEMENTS, NITROGEN, PHOSPHORUS, CARBON, BASE

CATIONS, AND SODIUM WAS ONE OF THEM, AND IT JUST

TURNED UP TO BE ONE THAT SEEMED TO BE

ACCUMULATING.

Q. HAVE YOU LOOKED AT ANY OTHER FACTORS THAT MIGHT

EXPLAIN THE CATTAIL EXPANSION?

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 487

A. NO, I HAVEN'T ADDRESSED THAT, REALLY, IN-DEPTH.

Q. PAGE 22 OF EXHIBIT NUMBER FIVE, THE SECTION THAT'S

ENTITLED "ECOLOGICAL APPLICATIONS" OR "ECOLOGICAL

APPLICATION," WHO WROTE THAT SECTION?

A. OH, I WROTE THAT SECTION.

Q. OKAY. DID YOU CONSIDER ANY OTHER APPLICATIONS,

OTHER THAN WHAT'S REFLECTED IN THAT SECTION?

A. WELL, THAT'S THE MAJOR APPLICATION THERE, IS THE

WORK IN -- YOU KNOW, WE'RE DOING WORK IN THE

EVERGLADES, THE DISTRICT'S THINKING ABOUT CREATING

THESE LARGE WETLAND BUFFER AREAS, AND I THINK OUR

INFORMATION IS AMENABLE TO TRYING TO DETERMINE HOW

WELL THESE THINGS WILL WORK.

Q. IS THERE ANY APPLICATION FOR THIS RESEARCH OUTSIDE

OF WHAT'S STATED THERE?

A. POTENTIALLY, ANYBODY WHO'S INTERESTED IN, I THINK,

CREATING PEAT BASED WETLANDS TO REMOVE PHOSPHORUS,

YOU KNOW, THIS WOULD HAVE A POTENTIAL APPLICATION,

I THINK. I MEAN, AGAIN, IT WOULD HAVE TO BE IN

THE CONTEXT OF -- I MEAN, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO

TAKE INTO ACCOUNT IF SOMEBODY IN IOWA WANTS TO

CREATE A PEAT BASE -- A PEAT BASED WETLAND, IT

MIGHT NOT BE AS APPLICABLE AS HERE IN SOUTH

FLORIDA, BUT---

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 488

Q. OKAY. AM I CORRECT THAT, AS A RESULT OF THIS

STUDY, THAT YOU CONCLUDED -- AND I WILL TRY TO

PARAPHRASE WHAT I BELIEVE YOU TESTIFIED TO

YESTERDAY -- THAT YOU CONCLUDED THAT IF THE GOAL

WAS TO REMOVE TEN METRIC TONS OF PHOSPHORUS IN A

CONSTRUCTED WETLAND OR A NATURAL WETLAND, YOU

WOULD NEED MORE LAND TO ACCOMPLISH THAT IF THE

INFLOW WERE TEN PARTS PER BILLION, AS OPPOSED TO

FIFTY PARTS PER BILLION?

A. I THINK THAT SOUNDS PRETTY MUCH WHAT I SAID, OR---

Q. WHAT DO YOU BASE THAT ON?

A. SOME OF THE INFORMATION IN EXHIBIT SIXTEEN, THAT

THE DATA SUGGESTS THAT AS SURFACE WATER PHOSPHORUS

CONCENTRATION DECREASES, PHOSPHORUS ACCUMULATION

IN THE PEAT DECREASES.

Q. OKAY. CAN YOU REPEAT THAT BACK TO ME? I MEAN YOU

CAN EITHER -- CAN YOU PLAY IT BACK, PLEASE. I'M

SORRY.

A. I CAN -- I CAN REPEAT IT.

Q. CAN YOU REPEAT?

A. YEAH.

Q. JUST TELL ME AGAIN.

A. IF WE -- IF WE WANT TO GO TO EXHIBIT SIXTEEN,

BASICALLY, WHAT IT SHOWS IS THAT -- THIS GRAPH

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 489

HERE, IS THAT WITH HIGH SURFACE WATER PHOSPHORUS

CONCENTRATION, TOTAL P -- WHICH IS A SOLID LINE --

WHEN IT'S HIGH, YOU GET A HIGH RATE OF

ACCUMULATION; BUT AS IT DECREASES, CONSEQUENTLY

YOU GET A DECREASE IN THE AMOUNT OF PHOSPHORUS

STORED.

Q. AND WHAT DATA IS THAT BASED ON?

A. THE ACCUMULATION RATE DATA IS -- IS OUR DATA. AND

THE SURFACE WATER CHEMISTRY, THE SURFACE WATER

TOTAL P IS TAKEN FROM SOUTH FLORIDA WATER

MANAGEMENT DISTRICT.

Q. WHO TOLD YOU THAT THE STA'S WOULD HAVE TO STORE A

HUNDRED AND SEVENTY-NINE METRIC TONS PER YEAR?

A. I TOOK THAT OUT OF A SWIM PLAN.

Q. THE '92 VERSION?

A. AS CITED, YES, ALTHOUGH I UNDERSTAND THAT NUMBER

HAS CHANGED SINCE THEN, BUT---

Q. WHAT'S YOUR UNDERSTANDING IN THAT REGARD?

A. I HAVE JUST HEARD -- DR. RICHARDSON HAS JUST

MENTIONED THAT THE NUMBER IS -- IS LESS NOW, THAT

IT'S DECREASED SOME. SO, PERHAPS THE BMP'S MAY

REMOVE MORE THAN -- THAN ORIGINALLY STATED IN

HERE. THE DISTRICT'S WORK IS MUCH LIKE OURS.

IT'S KIND OF AN ITERATION OVER TIME. THINGS

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 490

CHANGE SOME.

Q. NOW, I BELIEVE THE -- THE FOLLOW UP TO WHAT I JUST

ASKED YOU, ABOUT THE NEEDING MORE LAND, YESTERDAY,

YOU INDICATED THAT YOU WERE NOT PREPARED TO

ADDRESS THE QUESTION OF WHETHER THE CON -- DEALING

WITH CONCENTRATIONS, WHETHER YOU WOULD NEED MORE

LAND TO REDUCE FROM FIFTY PARTS PER BILLION TO TEN

PARTS PER BILLION, AS OPPOSED TO A HUNDRED AND

FIFTY DOWN TO FIFTY PARTS PER BILLION. IS THAT

RIGHT?

A. I DIDN'T FEEL CONFIDENT TALKING ABOUT THAT. YES.

Q. HAVE YOU EVER BEEN ASKED BY ANYONE TO DO THAT TYPE

OF ANALYSIS?

A. NO. AND IF I HAD, I PROBABLY WOULD BE ABLE TO

ANSWER THE QUESTION, BUT---

Q. DO YOU KNOW IF ANYONE ELSE FROM THE DUKE WETLAND

CENTER HAS BEEN DOING SUCH AN ANALYSIS?

A. NOT THAT I'M AWARE OF, NO.

Q. HOW ABOUT ANYBODY OUTSIDE OF THE DUKE WETLAND

CENTER; ARE YOU AWARE OF ANYONE DOING THAT TYPE OF

ANALYSIS?

A. NO.

Q. JUST GOING BACK A SECOND TO THE CONCEPT OF

SATURATION, I BELIEVE YESTERDAY THAT YOU TESTIFIED

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 491

THAT MAYBE SATURATION IS NOT THE CORRECT WAY TO

LOOK AT THE PROBLEM, WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A

PEAT ACCUMULATION TYPE OF SYSTEM. IS THAT

CORRECT?

A. YES.

Q. OKAY. IN LIGHT OF THAT, DO YOU HAVE ANY PLANS TO

CHANGE OR AMEND YOUR ARTICLE THAT'S CURRENTLY OUT

FOR PUBLICATION?

A. I MAY SEE IF THERE'S ANOTHER WORD THAT SAYS WHAT

I WANT IT, YOU KNOW, WHAT I WANT IT TO MEAN,

THAT'S NOT SATURATION, BECAUSE I'M NOT SURE THAT

THAT IS -- IS THE APPROPRIATE WORD FOR THESE PEAT

BASED WETLANDS. SATURATION MORE IMPLIES

ADSORPTION OR ABSORPTION PROCESSES OF PHOSPHORUS

ONTO EXCHANGE SITES. WHEREAS PEAT, AS PEAT BUILDS

UP EVERY YEAR, YOU'RE GOING TO GET AN INCREMENTAL

INCREASE. AND, SO, I HAVE TO RETHINK THE TERM

SATURATION. I'M NOT SURE IF THAT'S THE MOST

APPROPRIATE TERM.

Q. WHAT -- WELL, UNFORTUNATELY, I, AS A LAYPERSON

UNDERSTAND THE TERM SATURATION, AND I GUESS I'D

LIKE TO KNOW WHAT -- WHAT IS YOUR CONCEPT THAT YOU

WANT TO MOVE TO -- THAT YOU THINK MORE ACCURATELY

DESCRIBES WHAT YOU'RE THINKING?

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 492

A. WELL, AS I MENTIONED, SATURATION ALMOST IMPLIES

THAT -- LET'S SAY YOU HAVE A CLAY SURFACE, AND

PHOSPHORUS SORBS ONTO IT. LET'S SAY THERE'S

X-NUMBER OF EXCHANGE SITES. AT SOME POINT,

PHOSPHORUS WILL SATU -- WILL SORB ONTO ALL THOSE

EXCHANGE SITES, AND IT IS SATURATED. AND YOU

CANNOT ADD ANY MORE PHOSPHORUS TO IT. AND I THINK

THE PROBLEM WITH PEAT IS, IS THAT YOU DON'T REALLY

SATURATE IT, BECAUSE ONE YEAR, YOU GET AN

INCREMENT OF PEAT, BUT THEN THE NEXT YEAR YOU GET

ANOTHER. IT'S A CONTINUOUSLY BUILDING PROCESS.

SO -- SO, IN SOME WAYS, I'M -- YOU CAN -- I THINK

YOU CAN -- SATURATE'S NOT THE RIGHT WORD. YOU

CAN -- YOU CAN -- I DON'T KNOW. I WOULD HAVE TO

HAVE A DICTIONARY TO THINK ABOUT WHAT THE WORD

IS.

Q. WELL, CAN YOU -- I THINK I UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT

YOU'RE SAYING, BUT IT'S NOT A SATURATION CONCEPT,

BUT CAN YOU EVER GET SATURATED IN A PEAT

ACCUMULATION SYSTEM?

A. WELL, I THINK YOU CAN LOAD -- I THINK MAYBE

SATURATION HERE MIGHT APPLY MORE TO THE PLANT,

THE ABILITY OF THE PLANT TO TAKE UP PHOSPHORUS,

BECAUSE THAT'S HOW THE PEAT IS BUILT UP. SO,

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 493

PLANTS CAN ONLY TAKE UP IN A GROWING SEASON A

CERTAIN AMOUNT OF PHOSPHORUS, THAT NO MATTER HOW

MUCH -- YOU KNOW, IF YOU ADD ABOVE A CERTAIN

AMOUNT, THE PLANTS WILL NOT BE ABLE TO TAKE IT UP,

AND THAT MATERIAL, OR THAT PHOSPHORUS WILL MOVE

ON DOWNSTREAM. MAYBE SOMEBODY AT THE TABLE CAN

OFFER ANOTHER DEFINIT -- ANOTHER WORD THAT WILL

WORK WELL, THAT IS MORE DESCRIPTIVE OR MORE

ACCURATE.

MR. BURGESS: I'D KIND OF LIKE TO BE

LISTED AS A CO-AUTHOR ON THAT PAPER. LET

ME THINK ABOUT THAT.

(THEREUPON, THERE WAS AN

OFF-THE-RECORD DISCUSSION

WHICH WAS NOT REPORTED

BY THE COURT REPORTER,

AND MR. McCAUGHAN LEAVES.)

Q. (BY MR. NETTLETON) PAGE 24, THE LAST PARAGRAPH,

IN EXHIBIT NUMBER FIVE, THE SENTENCE THAT SAYS,

"HOWEVER, THE INCREASE IN PHOSPHORUS STORAGE

OCCURS AT A COST THROUGH DECREASED EFFICIENCY OF

PHOSPHORUS REMOVAL." WHAT COST ARE YOU REFERRING

TO?

A. THE COST IS THAT THE EFFICIENCY GOES DOWN SOME.

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 494

SO, INSTEAD OF---

Q. AND THAT -- I'M SORRY. GO AHEAD.

A. ---SO, LET'S SAY -- LET'S SAY IN ONE AREA YOU HAVE

A HUNDRED PERCENT OF THE PHOSPHORUS REMOVED, BUT

YOU CAN GO TO ANOTHER AREA THAT REMOVES MORE

PHOSPHORUS, PRESUMABLY BECAUSE THERE'S MORE

PHOSPHORUS INPUT, BUT IT DOESN'T -- WHILE IT

REMOVES MORE, THE EFFICIENCY, IN TERMS OF COMPARED

TO THE TOTAL INPUT, GOES DOWN.

Q. AND, AGAIN, WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PHOSPHORUS

STORAGE HERE, YOU'RE TALKING IN TERMS OF

PHOSPHORUS LOADING, AS OPPOSED TO PHOSPHORUS

CONCENTRATIONS?

A. WE'RE TALKING GRAMS PER METER SQUARED PER YEAR, SO

LOADING IS THE OPERATIVE TERM.

Q. AND THE EFFICIENCY THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS THE

EIGHTY-SEVEN PERCENT VERSUS THE HUNDRED PERCENT?

A. RIGHT, RIGHT.

Q. I'D LIKE TO MOVE TO EXHIBIT NUMBER SIXTEEN. BUT,

BEFORE I DO THAT, JUST WITH REGARD IN GENERAL TO

THE REPORT WE WERE JUST DISCUSSING---

A. YES.

Q. ---IS THERE A COMPARABLE CHAPTER IN THE 1992

ANNUAL REPORT?

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 495

A. NO.

Q. OKAY. IS THERE A CHAPTER IN ANY OF THE EARLIER

REPORTS?

A. SOME OF THE DATA IS IN THE 1990 REPORT -- IN THE

1990 -- IN THAT REPORT.

Q. IS THERE SOME REASON THERE WAS NOT A CHAPTER

INCLUDED IN THE 1992 REPORT WITH REGARD TO THIS

STUDY?

A. WELL, IT WAS JUST IN THE -- I FELT LIKE IT WOULD

BE DUPLICATION OF INFORMATION THAT HAD ALREADY

BEEN IN AN ANNUAL REPORT.

Q. EXHIBIT NUMBER SIXTEEN, AM I CORRECT THAT THIS

REPORT EFFECTIVELY PARALLELS CHAPTER SEVEN IN THE

1992 ANNUAL REPORT?

A. YES. BUT IS THIS -- NUMBER SIXTEEN, IS THIS THE

DRAFT OUT OF A FOLDER, AS OPPOSED TO -- OKAY, THIS

IS THE -- THE MOST RECENT VERSION OF WHAT'S IN

CHAPTER SEVEN. THIS HAS THE CORRECTED BULK

DENSITIES IN IT.

Q. ALL RIGHT. AND FOR PURPOSES OF THIS PARTICULAR

REPORT, THERE WERE EIGHTEEN CORES THAT WERE TAKEN.

IS THAT CORRECT?

A. RIGHT. AND THEN I THINK WE WENT BACK A YEAR LATER

AND TOOK FOUR ADDITIONAL CORES JUST FOR CESIUM

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 496

ANALYSIS.

Q. NOW, YOU -- AND THERE WERE NO REPLICATES TAKEN OF

THESE EIGHTEEN CORES, WERE THERE?

A. NO.

Q. OKAY. I BELIEVE YOU TESTIFIED YESTERDAY IN

GENERAL SCIENCE PARLANCE, THAT THE MORE REPLICATES

THE BETTER. IS THAT RIGHT?

A. YES.

Q. BUT WHY -- WHY WERE NOT ANY REPLICATES TAKEN OF

THESE CORES?

A. WELL, AGAIN, WHAT I VIEW ARE THE TIME CONSTRAINTS.

EIGHTEEN CORES TAKE A VERY LONG TIME TO WORK UP,

AND IN SOME WAYS, YOU CAN VIEW THE THREE

TRANSECTS, THEY AREN'T TRUE REPLICATES, BUT SINCE

THEY ARE AT -- LIKE, FOR EXAMPLE, THE NUMBER ONE

POINTS ARE THE SAME DISTANCE BELOW THE HILLSBORO

CANAL, THEY PROVIDE INFORMATION ACROSS THE

SPATIAL. THEY'RE NOT TRUE REPLICATES, BUT THEY

PROVIDE SOME COMPARABLE INFORMATION TO SEE HOW

SIMILAR THE ACCUMULATION RATES ARE. AND WE'LL

FIND OUT FROM THE REVIEWERS WHETHER I SHOULD HAVE

HAD REPLICATES OR NOT, I GUESS.

Q. NOW, IS THIS ARTICLE CURRENTLY -- OR IS THIS

REPORT CURRENTLY OUT FOR PUBLICATION?

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 497

A. NO. IT'S -- I HOPE TO GET IT OUT IN THE NEXT

MONTH, TO SEND IT OUT.

Q. IS THAT THE ONE -- IS THERE ANOTHER EXHIBIT, I

BELIEVE THAT WAS MARKED EARLIER -- OR NOT MARKED

TODAY -- BUT DISCUSSED BY MS. PONZOLI THIS

MORNING?

A. WELL, THAT WE TALKED ABOUT THIS AS GOING TO -- SHE

ASKED, AS GOING TO BIO -- TO THE -- WE'LL PROBABLY

SEND IT TO BIOGEOCHEMISTRY.

Q. JUST SPEAKING IN GENERAL CONCERNING THE 1992

REPORT, I UNDERSTAND THAT THAT IS NOW CONSIDERED

A DRAFT, THE VERSION THAT WE HAVE. IS THAT

RIGHT?

A. YES.

Q. WHEN WERE YOU FIRST ADVISED THAT THAT NEEDED TO BE

REVISED UNTIL FINAL VERSION?

A. WHEN WE BECAME AWARE OF ALL THE TYPOS AND THE

CALCULATING ERRORS ON THE BULK DENSITY HERE, AND

SOME OTHER, YOU KNOW, SMALL ERRORS THROUGHOUT.

IT'S PROBABLY BEEN A MONTH OR MORE. IT WASN'T

LONG AFTER IT CAME OUT.

(THEREUPON, THERE WAS AN

OFF-THE-RECORD DISCUSSION

WHICH WAS NOT REPORTED

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 498

BY THE COURT REPORTER.)

Q. (BY MR. NETTLETON) WHO IS COORDINATING PUTTING

THE FINAL VERSION TOGETHER?

A. LISA PHELPS IS DOING THE COORDINATING.

Q. AND WHO IS LISA PHELPS?

A. SHE IS DR. RICHARDSON'S ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT.

Q. THERE HAS ALSO BEEN SOME DISCUSSION OF THE

APPENDICES THAT WILL GO ALONG WITH THAT REPORT.

HAVE THOSE APPENDICES BEEN PUT INTO DRAFT FORM AT

THIS POINT?

A. AGAIN, I THINK SHE'S ASSEMBLING THEM. I DON'T

THINK WE HAVE A DRAFT VERSION AT THIS TIME, BUT MY

UNDERSTANDING FROM YESTERDAY'S CONVERSATION IS

THAT THOSE TWO THINGS WILL COME OUT AT THE SAME

TIME IN JANUARY.

Q. OKAY. WITH REGARD TO THE APPENDICES, ARE THERE

ANY CHANGES BEING MADE, TO ANY OF THE DATA

REFLECTED THERE?

A. WELL, OTHER THAN THOSE BULK DENSITIES, WHICH HAVE

BEEN CORRECTED, AND HAVE BEEN PASSED ON TO HER AT

THIS POINT. I MEAN, THERE MAY BE A FEW OTHER

SMALL ERRORS THAT OTHER PEOPLE ARE INVOLVED IN,

BUT I'M NOT.

Q. ON THE FIRST PAGE OF THE ABSTRACT OF EXHIBIT

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 499

NUMBER SIXTEEN, SECOND PARAGRAPH, THE FIRST

SENTENCE, "RATES OF PEAT ACCRETION WERE HIGHEST

WITHIN 1.5 KILOMETERS OF THE HILLSBORO CANAL, AND

DECREASED TO 2.01, PLUS OR MINUS .31 AT DISTANCES

OF 6.6 TO 10 KILOMETERS DOWNSTREAM." YOUR CHAPTER

SEVEN HAD DIFFERENT NUMBERS FOR THAT SECOND ONE,

IT WAS 2.08, PLUS OR MINUS .28. WAS THAT CHANGE

ONE OF THE ONES WHICH WOULD BE AFFECTED BY THE

BULK DENSITY?

A. NO. THAT MAY HAVE BEEN A TYPO, BECAUSE THE

ACCRETION RATES DIDN'T CHANGE, THEY'RE NOT

AFFECTED BY THE BULK DENSITY. BUT, AGAIN, 2.01,

WITH AN ERROR OF THAT, AND 2.08 WITH AN ERROR,

NO, THEY'RE ESSENTIALLY THE SAME, AS I VIEW THEM.

BUT I THINK WHAT MAY HAVE BEEN, IS THAT ONE MAY

HAVE BEEN TYPED IN INCORRECTLY, COMPARED TO WHAT'S

IN THE TEXT LATER ON.

Q. OKAY. WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE CORRECT NUMBER

THEN, 2.08 OR 2.01?

A. WELL, I THINK THIS IS, BEING THE MOST RECENT

DRAFT, I THINK THIS IS THE CORRECT -- THE CORRECT

ONE. BUT I CAN GO TO -- TO FURTHER IN THE TEXT,

AND I'VE GOT THAT 2.01 PLUS OR MINUS .31 AGAIN,

SO---

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 500

Q. BUT AS FAR AS YOU'RE CONCERNED, THEY'RE CLOSE

ENOUGH THAT IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE WHICH

NUMBER YOU'RE USING?

A. WELL, NO, IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE TO HAVE THE

CORRECT NUMBER. BUT IN TERMS OF WHAT THE STORY

TELLS, IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE. YOU ALWAYS

WANT TO HAVE THE CORRECT NUMBER IN THERE, AND

THAT'S WHY THIS IS A DRAFT. YOU KNOW, WE WILL --

WE'LL DOUBLE CHECK THESE AND MAKE SURE THAT

THEY'RE CORRECT BEFORE WE SEND THEM OUT.

Q. IN THE FIRST SENTENCE OF THE ABSTRACT, YOU REFER

TO THE EUTROPHICATION GRADIENT. WHAT DO YOU MEAN

BY EUTROPHICATION GRADIENT?

A. I USE THAT AND NUTRIENT ENRICHMENT SYNONYMOUSLY.

AND, IN FACT, MY TITLE ORIGINALLY HAD ALONG A

NUTRIENT ENRICHMENT GRADIENT. BUT I HAD THE WORD

NUTRIENT TWICE IN THE TITLE, AND I JUST DIDN'T

LIKE THE WAY THAT SOUNDED, SO I CHANGED IT TO

EUTROPHICATION.

Q. OKAY. IN YOUR MIND, DOES EUTROPHICATION IMPLY

SOME TYPE OF PROBLEM THROUGH NUTRIENT ENRICHMENT?

A. I THINK WHAT IT MEANS, THE DEFINITION, OR AT LEAST

ONE DEFINITION, MEANS ACCELERATED ENRICHMENT OF

ECOSYSTEMS.

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 501

Q. DOES IT CONTAIN -- DOES IT ALSO CONTAIN THE

CONCEPT OF -- OF AFFECTING, ADVERSELY AFFECTING

THE ECOSYSTEM?

A. POTENTIALLY. IT GENERALLY CONNOTES A LOT HIGHER

PRODUCTIVITY, BECAUSE YOU'RE ADDING THESE LIMITING

NUTRIENTS, AND OBVIOUSLY IT DEPENDS ON WHETHER

YOU WANT TO ENHANCE PRODUCTIVITY. MAYBE THAT'S

WHAT YOU'RE GOING FOR. BUT, IN MANY CASES, IT'S

USED -- IT'S A DETRIMENTAL TERM. IT'S USED BY A

LOT OF PEOPLE TO MEAN AN UNDESIRABLE EFFECT.

Q. WAS THAT YOUR INTENT IN USING THE TERM?

A. WELL, I WOULD HAVE TO GO LOOK AT THE DEFINITION

AND SEE. IT JUST REPRESENTS NUTRIENT ENRICHMENT.

Q. WELL, REGARDLESS OF WHAT WEBSTER'S OR WHATEVER

DEFINITION WE WOULD LOOK AT, I MEAN, WHAT WAS YOUR

INTENT BY USING THE TERM?

A. I DON'T THINK I TRIED TO ASSESS IT IN EITHER A

POSITIVE OR A NEGATIVE WAY.

Q. DOES NUTRIENT ENRICHMENT IN THE EVERGLADES INCLUDE

THE CONCEPT OF CULTURAL EUTROPHICATION?

A. I'M NOT SURE. SOMEBODY WOULD HAVE TO DEFINE THAT

FOR ME. IS THAT LIKE A CESSPOOL OF HUMANITY OR

SOMETHING?

(THEREUPON, THERE WAS AN

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 502

OFF-THE-RECORD DISCUSSION

WHICH WAS NOT REPORTED

BY THE COURT REPORTER.)

Q. (BY MR. NETTLETON) WELL, WE'LL MOVE ALONG. BASED

UPON YOUR EXPERIENCE IN THE AREA, WHAT -- WHAT

EFFECT WOULD YOU EXPECT TO SEE FROM THE ADDITION

OF NUTRIENTS TO AN OLIGOTROPHIC SYSTEM?

A. CERTAINLY ENHANCED PRODUCTIVITY, BY, YOU KNOW, A

LOT OF COMPONENTS; A SHIFT IN THE COMMUNITIES,

POTENTIALLY, AND CHANGE IN SPECIES COMPOSITION.

Q. WHAT WOULD YOU DO AS A SCIENTIST TO DOCUMENT OR TO

DETERMINE THE EFFECT OF NUTRIENT ENRICHMENT ON A

SYSTEM?

A. I THINK SOME OF THE THINGS WE'RE DOING NOW -- AND

I THINK OTHER RESEARCHERS -- ONE IS, I THINK THE

FERTILIZER EXPERIMENT TRIES TO ADDRESS THAT BY

STARTING AT TIME ZERO IN AN UNENRICHED AREA AND

ADDING FERTILIZER ADDITIONS, AND SEEING HOW THE --

SEEING WHAT THESE CHANGES OCCUR, SEE HOW THESE

CHANGES OCCUR, AND AT WHAT TIME INTERVAL. AND

ANOTHER THING WOULD BE, IN CONSERVATION AREA 2A,

TO SET UP -- IF THE AREA IS TRULY EXPANDING, THIS

ENRICHED ZONE IS EXPANDING -- SET UP PLOTS

DOWNSTREAM FROM THE ENRICHED AREA, AND SEE WHAT

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 503

CHANGES OCCUR OVER TIME.

Q. WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT CHANGES, WHAT SPECIFICALLY

WOULD YOU BE LOOKING FOR, WHAT TROPHIC LEVEL ARE

YOU TALKING ABOUT?

A. WELL, THAT'S MORE IN -- MY INTEREST WOULD BE

RELATING -- BECAUSE I DO WORK WITH THINGS LIKE

CHANGES IN MACROPHYTES -- DOES CATTAIL EXPAND INTO

THESE AREAS IN RESPONSE TO ENRICHMENT. I'M

INTERESTED IN THINGS LIKE PEAT BUILDUP AND PEAT

ACCRETION. THOSE WOULD BE THINGS THAT I WOULD

LOOK AT. DR. RADER, OBVIOUSLY, HAS DIFFERENT

INTERESTS AND HE WOULD -- HE LOOKS AT SOME OF THE

FOOD WEB COMPONENTS.

Q. WOULD YOU EXPECT TO GET INCREASED PRODUCTIVITY BY

ENHANCED HYDROPERIOD?

A. YES. WELL, NO, NO -- LET ME BACK UP. I'M NOT

SURE ABOUT THAT. I THINK YOU WOULD GET ENHANCED

PEAT ACCRETION, BUT I'M NOT SURE TO WHAT EXTENT

ENHANCED HYDROPERIOD WOULD ENHANCE PRODUCTIVITY.

SO I DON'T REALLY KNOW ABOUT THAT.

Q. YOU JUST DON'T KNOW ONE WAY OR THE OTHER?

A. NO, I DON'T.

Q. NO OPINION?

A. WELL, I JUST DON'T KNOW.

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 504

Q. OKAY. THE FIRST PAGE OF THE ABSTRACT, THE FIGURES

ON -- DO YOU SEE THE FIGURES, .66, PLUS OR MINUS

.06?

A. YES.

Q. AND THEN THE NEXT FIGURE IS .10, PLUS OR MINUS

.02?

A. UH-HUH (YES).

Q. I NOTED THAT THOSE ARE ALSO DIFFERENT FROM THE

NUMBERS THAT ARE INCLUDED IN CHAPTER SEVEN OF THE

ANNUAL REPORT. WOULD THOSE HAVE BEEN CHANGED AS A

RESULT OF THE BULK DENSITY ERROR?

A. RIGHT. THE PROBLEM WITH BULK, AGAIN, AS I

MENTIONED EARLIER, TO CALCULATE ANY KIND OF

ACCUMULATION RATE, PHOSPHORUS OR CARBON OR

NITROGEN, YOU NEED BULK DENSITY, YOU NEED

ACCRETION, AND YOU NEED THE CONCENTRATION OF THE

ELEMENT. SO, WHEN THE BULK DENSITY CHANGED, IT

WOULD CHANGE -- IT WOULD NECESSARILY RESULT IN A

CHANGE IN THESE ACCUMULATION RATE NUMBERS ON THAT

"A" TRANSECT.

Q. SO, THAT'S THE REASON THOSE NUMBERS HAVE CHANGED

AT THIS POINT?

A. YES. AND I THINK THAT THEY'VE -- BECAUSE THE BULK

DENSITY WENT DOWN, THESE NUMBERS ARE SOMEWHAT

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 505

LOWER THAN THEY WERE IN THE CHAPTER SEVEN.

Q. WHO DISCOVERED THE ERROR IN THE BULK DENSITY?

A. I DID.

Q. WHEN DID YOU DISCOVER THAT?

A. THIS WAS IN LATE OCTOBER, WHEN -- RIGHT AFTER THE

REPORT HAD GONE OUT, AND I WAS STARTING TO REVISE

THIS, TO TRY TO SEND IT OUT, AND I WANTED TO MAKE

SURE THAT THE NUMBERS WERE RIGHT. SO, WE WENT

BACK THROUGH THE DATA SETS, AND DISCOVERED THE

ERROR.

Q. NOW, ON THE SECOND PAGE OF THE ABSTRACT, EXHIBIT

NUMBER SIXTEEN, THE PARAGRAPH THAT CONTINUES

ACTUALLY ONTO THE NEXT PAGE, ABOUT HALFWAY THROUGH

THERE, THE SENTENCE STARTS "HOWEVER." DO YOU SEE

THAT? THOSE TWO SENTENCES READ, "HOWEVER,

PHOSPHORUS ACCUMULATION ALONG THE GRADIENT IS A

FUNCTION OF SURFACE WATER PHOSPHORUS

CONCENTRATION, DECREASING AS SURFACE WATER

PHOSPHORUS DECREASES. THESE FINDINGS SUGGEST THAT

AS INFLOW PHOSPHORUS CONCENTRATIONS DECREASE,

PROGRESSIVELY LARGER WETLAND AREAS WILL BE NEEDED

TO REMOVE THE SAME AMOUNT OF PHOSPHORUS THAT IS

SEQUESTERED IN A SMALLER WETLAND EXPOSED TO HIGHER

INPUT PHOSPHORUS CONCENTRATIONS." THOSE TWO

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 506

SENTENCES DO NOT APPEAR IN CHAPTER SEVEN OF THE

ANNUAL REPORT. WHO ADDED THOSE TO THIS DOCUMENT?

A. IS THERE -- I WOULD LIKE TO LOOK AT CHAPTER SEVEN,

BECAUSE THERE SHOULD BE SOMETHING IN THERE THAT --

THAT SAYS SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES, IF NOT

THERE, BUT LATER IN THE TEXT. THIS MAY HAVE BEEN

SOMETHING -- WELL, LET ME LOOK AND SEE WHAT --

WHAT IT SAYS IN HERE. I DON'T KNOW WHERE CHAPTER

SEVEN IS. IS THIS -- IS THIS LAST YEAR?

Q. 286.

A. OKAY. OKAY.

(THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.)

A. OKAY. I DO SEE THAT THEY ARE NOT IN THERE. BUT

WE -- WE TALK ABOUT THIS. DR. RICHARDSON -- I

DON'T REALLY REMEMBER -- BUT HE'S BEEN REVIEWING

THE DOCUMENT, AND HE PROBABLY SUGGESTED THAT WE

INCLUDE THAT. BUT LATER IN THE TEXT IN CHAPTER

SEVEN WE DO ADDRESS THIS, TALKING ABOUT THIS

PROBLEM, AND WE MAY EVEN -- LET'S SEE IF I CAN

FIND IT.

(THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.)

A. IN FACT, IF YOU LOOK IN THE -- I BELIEVE MAYBE

THERE'S -- IF YOU LOOK ON PAGE 317, WHICH IS AT

THE VERY END OF CHAPTER SEVEN, WE ESSENTIALLY SAY

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 507

THE SAME THING, WE -- "THESE FINDINGS" -- ABOUT

HALFWAY DOWN. "THESE FINDINGS SUGGEST THAT, AS

INFLOW CONCENTRATIONS DECREASE, PROGRESSIVELY

LARGER WETLAND AREAS WILL BE NEEDED," AND SO ON

AND SO FORTH. BUT, APPARENTLY, HE THOUGHT THAT

THAT WAS IMPORTANT ENOUGH TO INCLUDE IN THE

ABSTRACT.

Q. SO, THAT WAS DR. RICHARDSON'S DETERMINATION TO

INCLUDE THAT IN THE ABSTRACT?

A. WELL, I THINK SO. AGAIN, THIS IS A DRAFT AND

WE'RE -- AND, YOU KNOW, WE'RE TRYING TO GET IT

IMPROVED ENOUGH TO SEND OUT.

Q. I'D JUST LIKE TO CLARIFY, THERE'S NO PAGE NUMBERS

ON THIS, BUT THERE'S A REFERENCE IN HERE TO CRAFT

AND RICHARDSON, 1993. DO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT WOULD

REFER TO?

A. THAT WOULD REFER TO NUMBER FIVE---

Q. NUMBER FIVE?

A. ---WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT PREVIOUSLY.

Q. THERE'S A SECTION IN EXHIBIT NUMBER SIXTEEN THAT'S

ENTITLED: ACCUMULATION RATES OF PHOSPHORUS,

SODIUM, ETCETERA. I DON'T HAVE A PAGE NUMBER, SO

I CAN'T PUT YOU ANY CLOSER---

A. I CAN FIND IT. OKAY.

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 508

Q. ---DO YOU SEE THAT?

A. UH-HUH (YES).

Q. TURN TO THE PAGE AFTER THAT---

A. OKAY.

Q. ---ABOUT SIX OR SO LINES DOWN, THE LINE STARTS

HILLSBORO CANAL?

A. YES.

Q. IT TALKS ABOUT EXTRAPOLATING THE EQUATION TO

LOCATIONS, ADJACENT TO THE HILLSBORO CANAL,

YIELDED A MAXIMUM ACCUMULATION RATE OF .92?

A. RIGHT.

Q. AGAIN, I NOTED THAT IN CHAPTER SEVEN, THE

REFERENCE IS TO---

A. .9.

Q. ---1.05.

A. OKAY. AGAIN, THE SHIFT IN THE BULK DENSITIES ON

THAT "A" LINE RESULTED IN THESE CHANGES. THAT'S

WHY IT'S IMPORTANT TO MAKE SURE YOU HAVE YOUR BULK

DENSITIES RIGHT. IT TENDS TO CHANGE A LOT OF

OTHER NUMBERS.

Q. THREE PAGES PAST THERE, UNDER THE HEADING

PHOSPHORUS STORAGE EFFICIENCY OF WCA 2A, THE

PAGE -- THE SECOND PAGE OF THAT, TWO LINES FROM

THE BOTTOM REFERS TO 51 METRIC TONS OF PHOSPHORUS

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 509

PER YEAR. IN CHAPTER SEVEN, I NOTED THAT THAT

PREVIOUSLY REFLECTED 52.4 METRIC TONS. IS THERE

A REASON THAT WAS CHANGED?

A. AGAIN, THE -- YOU UNDERSTAND WHEN THE BULK

DENSITIES CHANGE, THAT CHANGES THE ACCUMULATION

RATE, WHICH CHANGES A LOT OF THESE. BUT, AGAIN,

THIS IS THE CORRECT NUMBER, BUT I DON'T THINK

THE STORY CHANGES. FROM 51 METRIC TONS TO 52.4

IS A CHANGE OF MAYBE SLIGHTLY MORE THAN TWO

PERCENT, SO.

Q. I'M NOT TRYING TO SUGGEST OTHERWISE, BUT I'M

JUST---

A. NO, I'M JUST TRYING---

Q. ---AS YOU MIGHT KNOW, I DON'T COMPLETELY

UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING THAT'S BEEN SAID HERE, SO

I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT IS RELATED TO

THE SAME---

A. HEY, I DON'T UNDERSTAND SOME OF THIS STUFF EITHER,

SO.

WITNESS: CAN WE -- ARE WE DONE WITH --

WELL, WHEN WE GET TO THIS, I'D LIKE TO MAYBE

TAKE A BREAK.

MR. NETTLETON: OKAY, I'VE JUST GOT A

FEW MORE QUESTIONS ON THAT.

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 510

WITNESS: OKAY.

Q. (BY MR. NETTLETON) WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE

POLLEN ANALYSIS EARLIER, ARE YOU COLLECTING ANY

ADDITIONAL CORES FOR PURPOSES OF DOING THAT?

A. NO. MY HOPE IS TO TAKE EXISTING CORES, AND TRY TO

DO THE ANALYSIS ON THEM. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GOING

TO TRY FIRST. BUT I'LL SAY, WE'VE -- WE'VE NOT

TRIED POLLEN ANALYSIS ON THESE, SO, WE DON'T

REALLY KNOW HOW WELL THEY'LL -- HOW WELL THEY'LL

WORK, OR HOW POORLY THEY'LL WORK. SO, WE MAY

DECIDE TO GO BACK AND TAKE SOME CORES.

Q. DO YOU KNOW OF ANYONE ELSE THAT'S CURRENTLY

PULLING CORES FOR PURPOSES OF DOING A POLLEN

ANALYSIS?

A. NO, I DON'T KNOW OF ANYBODY.

Q. WHAT WAS THE STATISTICAL PRECISION OF YOUR

CESIUM 137 DATA?

A. YOU CAN SEE THE COUNTING ERROR ON SOME OF THE

FIGURES THAT I GIVE YOU -- I BELIEVE FIGURE TWO.

IT IS NOT A STANDARD ERROR, BUT IT IS SIMILAR TO

ONE. I MEAN, IT'S NOT CALCULATED LIKE A STANDARD

ERROR, BUT YOU CAN SEE THE LITTLE -- THE BAR THERE

ON THE PEAK, LIKE THE UPPER LEFT-HAND GRAPH, THE

UPPER LEFT-HAND PROFILE.

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 511

Q. WHICH PAGE IS THIS?

A. THIS IS IN THE DRAFT, AND IT'S ALMOST -- IT'S

ABOUT FIVE PAGES FROM THE BACK. IT'S EASIER FOR

ME TO SHOW YOU THAN TO TELL YOU---

Q. OKAY. I'VE GOT IT.

A. ---YOU SEE THE UPPER LEFT-HAND PROFILE HAS A VERY

NICE, WELL-DEFINED PEAK. CAN YOU SEE THAT LITTLE

BAR STICKING OUT ON THE CESIUM?

Q. UH-HUH (YES).

A. THAT IS THE COUNTING ERROR FOR THAT DEPTH

INCREMENT. AND WE GENERALLY FOUND THAT THE

COUNTING ERRORS WERE FIVE TO TEN PERCENT, ON

AVERAGE, OF THE SIZ -- OF THE ACTIVITY.

Q. IS THERE A WAY TO ABSOLUTELY DETERMINE THE

ACCURACY OF THE CESIUM 137 ANALYSIS?

A. WELL, IT'S LIKE ANY SCIENTIFIC TECHNIQUE. THERE

IS ALWAYS SOME UNCERTAINTY INVOLVED. AND, REALLY,

CESIUM, I THINK, IS NOT AS COMPLICATED AS

EVERYBODY -- AS SOME OF Y'ALL THINK IT IS. I

MEAN, I REALLY THINK A LAYMAN CAN DO THIS KIND OF

WORK. YOU BASICALLY -- SINCE IT'S CALLED AN

IMPULSE MARKER -- SO, YOU LOOK AT THE PEAK AT

DEPTH. AND IF YOU HAVE A NICE, WELL-DEFINED PEAK,

AS IN THE CASE OF THAT FIGURE, THAT SUGGESTS TO

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 512

ME, AND TO OTHER SCIENTISTS WHO WORK WITH CESIUM,

THAT IT'S A VERY GOOD MARKER IN A CORE LIKE THAT.

WITH REGARDS TO THE INSTRUMENTATION, CESIUM, WHEN

YOU COUNT CESIUM, THE INSTRUMENT EITHER WORKS OR

IT DOESN'T. I MEAN, IT'S EITHER ON -- IT'S EITHER

WORKING AND COUNTING, OR IT'S NOT COUNTING AT ALL.

SO, THERE'S NO UNCERTAINTY IN THE WAY THE MACHINE

COUNTS. IT'S MORE IN TERMS OF LOOKING AT THE

COUNTS IN DIFFERENT CHANNELS.

Q. DOES THE TERM STATISTICAL PRECISION HAVE A

SPECIFIC SCIENTIFIC MEANING?

A. PRECISION, I THINK, IMPLIES HOW CLOSE TO THE TRUE

VALUE YOU ARE. AND THE COUNTING ERROR GIVES YOU

SOME IDEA OF THAT, LOOKING AT THIS. AND I THINK

WITH A SMALL COUNTING ERROR ON A FIGURE LIKE THAT,

COMPARED TO THE SIZE OF THE PEAK, INDICATES THAT

THERE'S A GREAT DEAL -- THERE'S A HIGH DEGREE OF

CERTAINTY THAT THAT IS INDEED WHERE THE CESIUM

MAXIMUM IS.

Q. AND IF WE GET -- IF WE GET FURTHER AWAY FROM SAY

THE TOP LEFT-HAND CORNER, AND GO DOWN TWO COLUMNS,

WHERE THE BARS SEEM TO BE CLOSER TOGETHER, DOES

THAT INDICATE THAT THE ERROR COULD HAVE SOME

EFFECT ON---

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 513

A. OH, YEAH, THE UNCERTAINTY IS CERTAINLY GREATER ON

THOSE.

Q. AT SOME POINT IN NUMBER SIXTEEN -- AND I DON'T

HAVE A PAGE NUMBER -- UNDER THE HEADING "ACCRETION

RATES."

A. UH-HUH (YES). OKAY. I HAVE -- WELL, I WILL FIND

IT HERE SHORTLY. I SEE IT.

Q. OKAY. THE SECOND SENTENCE REFERS TO "PEAT

ACCRETION WAS HIGHEST NEAREST THE HILLSBORO

CANAL."

A. YES.

Q. AND IT GOES ON TO SAY THAT THE SOURCE OF -- "THE

SOURCE OF THE NUTRIENT ENRICHED WATER DECREASED IN

THE DOWNSTREAM DIRECTION." DO YOU CONSIDER -- DO

YOU CONSIDER IN HERE THAT THE HILLSBORO CANAL IS

THE SOURCE OF THE NUTRIENT?

A. YEAH, I MEAN, I THINK SO. THAT'S WHERE THE

WATER'S RELEASED INTO CONSERVATION AREA 2A.

Q. WHERE ARE THE NUTRIENTS CONTAINED IN HILLSBORO

CANAL ORIGINATING FROM?

A. OKAY, THE TRUE SOURCE IS PROBABLY THE EAA AND

LAKE OKEECHOBEE. IT'S COMING FROM UPSTREAM, SO.

I MEAN, FOR THIS, I'M MORE TALKING ABOUT MAYBE

THE OR -- WELL, ORIGIN MIGHT NOT BE THE CORRECT

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 514

WORD EITHER, BUT -- BUT THE -- IT FLOWS THROUGH

THE GATES TO GET INTO CONSERVATION AREA 2A. INPUT

MIGHT BE A BETTER WORD.

Q. OKAY. DO YOU CONSIDER INCREASED RATES OF PEAT

ACCRETION AND NUTRIENT ACCUMULATION IN THE

EVERGLADES SOIL TO BE A CHANGE IN THE EVERGLADES

ECOSYSTEM?

A. WELL, IT'S A CHANGE RELATIVE TO THESE AREAS

FURTHER SOUTH THAT DON'T SEEM TO SHOW THESE HIGHER

RATES OF ACCRETION, YES.

Q. DO YOU CONSIDER THIS TO BE A FUNCTIONALLY

SIGNIFICANT CHANGE?

A. YEAH, I THINK IT IS SIGNIFICANT.

Q. WHAT WERE THE TOTAL NUMBER OF CORES THAT THE

CESIUM 137 WAS BASED ON, THE ANALYSIS?

A. I THINK TWENTY-TWO. IT WAS EIGHTEEN, AND THEN WE

TOOK FOUR ADDITIONAL CORES A FOLLOWING YEAR, JUST

TO COMPARE AND SEE IF THE CESIUM PEAKS WERE

SIMILAR AT THOSE FOUR SITES; IF THERE WAS, YOU

KNOW, REPEATABILITY.

(THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.)

Q. AGAIN, I'M WITHOUT A PAGE NUMBER FOR THAT.

A. WELL, I AN FIND IT. WELL, WHAT'S THE LAST

HEADING?

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 515

Q. "PHOSPHORUS STORAGE EFFICIENCY IN THE WCA 2A."

A. OKAY. I'M THERE.

Q. THERE'S A PARAGRAPH, A COUPLE PAGES IN, IT STARTS

"MOST OF THE PHOSPHORUS THAT ACCUMULATES."

A. I'M NOT EVEN SURE IF I HAVE THAT. IT STARTS AS A

PARAGRAPH---

Q. RIGHT.

A. ---UNDER PHOSPHORUS STORAGE EFFICIENCY.

Q. RIGHT.

A. PERHAPS THAT'S BEEN REVISED SOME. WHAT'S THE---

Q. TAKE A LOOK AT THE NEXT HEADING. ACTUALLY, I

THINK THERE'S A PIECE MISSING OUT OF CHAPTER

SEVEN, WHICH MAY BE THE---

A. OKAY. I DON'T SEE IT. MAYBE GO TO THE

PROCEEDING. GO TO THE -- WELL, YOU DON'T HAVE A

CONCLUSION SECTION, I DON'T THINK.

Q. YEAH---

A. OH, OKAY.

Q. ---IT'S THE SECTION RIGHT BEFORE THE

CONCLUSION---

A. OKAY.

Q. ---PAGE 316 ON THE ANNUAL REPORT.

A. I THINK IT'S MAYBE -- MAYBE IT'S HERE. WHAT --

WHAT IS THE -- OKAY, SURE, I'LL LOOK AT THE

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 516

REPORT. OKAY, I SEE IT.

Q. OKAY. THE LAST SENTENCE IN THAT PARAGRAPH READS

THAT, "MOST OF THE PHOSPHORUS ACCUMULATING IN THE

ENRICHED AREA IS PERMANENTLY SEQUESTERED IN THE

PEAT MATRIX AND, UNDER CURRENT CONDITIONS, IS

UNLIKELY TO BE RELEASED BACK INTO THE WATER COLUMN

AND EXPORTED DOWNSTREAM." WHAT CURRENT CONDITIONS

ARE YOU REFERRING TO?

A. WELL, SINCE THIS MATERIAL HAS ACCUMULATED OVER A

TWENTY-FIVE YEAR PERIOD, I GUESS WHAT I'M

REFERRING TO IS IF THERE'S NO DRAMATIC CHANGE IN

THE HYDROLOGY, LIKE, THEY LET IT DRY OUT

COMPLETELY FOR TEN YEARS AND THEN REFLOOD IT, OR

SOMETHING LIKE THAT. JUST NO DRAMATIC CHANGE IN

THE WAY THAT THE CONSERVATION AREA 2A IS REGULATED

NOW.

Q. ANY OTHER TYPE OF CONDITIONS, OTHER THAN TEN YEAR

DROUGHT TYPE OF---

A. WELL, I DON'T KNOW. THERE COULD BE OTHER THINGS.

BUT ALL I'M REFERRING TO IS THAT I THINK IF IT

IS -- IF IT'S MANAGED THE WAY IT HAS BEEN IN

RECENT YEARS, THIS MATERIAL WILL PROBABLY STAY --

WILL STAY SEQUESTERED, PROBABLY.

Q. WELL, OTHER THAN THE SCENARIO YOU SUGGESTED, ARE

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 517

THERE ANY OTHER CONDITIONS THAT COULD RESULT IN

THIS RE-RELEASE BACK?

A. I DON'T KNOW, IT'S SOMETHING THAT I'D HAVE TO

REALLY THINK ABOUT.

MR. NETTLETON: OKAY. THAT'S ALL

THE OTHER QUESTIONS I HAD ON THAT

DOCUMENT.

WITNESS: TIME OUT, PLEASE.

(THEREUPON, A SHORT

BREAK WAS TAKEN.)

EXAMINATION BY MR. NETTLETON CONTINUES:

Q. IT MIGHT BE HELPFUL IF YOU HAD THE ANNUAL REPORT

IN FRONT OF YOU, SO I CAN REFER TO THE PAGES. AND

IN CHAPTER ONE, I THINK REFLECTS THAT---

A. OKAY. CAN WE SHARE THERE? OKAY, SURE.

Q. PAGE 14 REFLECTS A DRAWING OF WCA 2B WHERE THE

SAMPLING SITES WERE, I BELIEVE---

A. YES.

Q. ---BUT BEFORE I GET INTO THIS, YOU HAD MENTIONED

EARLIER THAT DR. CURTIS RICHARDSON IS CURRENTLY

ENGAGED IN A HYDROLOGY STUDY IN THIS SAME AREA.

IS THAT RIGHT?

A. (NODS AFFIRMATIVELY.)

Q. OKAY. DO YOU RECALL WHERE IN THE WCA 2B HIS STUDY

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 518

IS LOCATED?

A. IT'S RIGHT ADJACENT TO OUR SAWGRASS SITE. ON THE

DIAGRAM, IT WOULD BE BETWEEN THE SAWGRASS AND THE

MIXED SITE, BUT IT'S METERS, TENS OF METERS AWAY

FROM THE SAWGRASS SITE.

Q. OKAY. WHAT'S THE PURPOSE OF THAT STUDY?

A. I'M NOT REALLY INVOLVED IN IT, BUT MY

UNDERSTANDING IS, IS IT'S TO LOOK AT THE EFFECTS

OF DIFFERENT WATER LEVELS, AND HE HAS A PHOSPHORUS

TREATMENT, AND HE HAS A DISTURBANCE TREATMENT ON

RECOLONIZATION OF THESE PLOTS, ON WHAT COMES INTO

THEM.

Q. DOES IT -- IS IT -- DOES IT HAVE ANY RELATIONSHIP

TO YOUR FERTILIZER STUDY?

A. NO, NOT REALLY. IT'S MORE TRYING TO ADDRESS THIS

QUESTION OF HYDROLOGY.

Q. WAS THERE ANY SIGNIFICANCE TO THE FACT THAT IT'S

ONLY METERS AWAY FROM YOUR -- ONE OF YOUR SITES

HERE?

A. NO, I THINK IT WAS JUST A MINIMAL -- WELL, IT WAS

MAINLY PUT THERE FOR ACCESS, SO THAT BOTH SITES --

YOU KNOW, YOU COULD DRIVE A VEHICLE TO ONE

LOCATION, AND ONE PERSON COULD GO WORK IN THE

HYDROLOGY PLOTS, AND ANOTHER PERSON COULD WORK IN

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 519

THE SAWGRASS PLOTS.

Q. I BELIEVE YOU TESTIFIED YESTERDAY THAT THE PEAT

IN AREA 2B HAS HIGH MINERAL CONTENT. IS THAT

RIGHT?

A. IT IS HIGHER IN MINERAL CONTENT THAN IN 2A.

Q. OKAY. ARE THERE ANY OTHER DIFFERENCES IN THE

PEAT?

A. THE PEAT'S NOT AS DEEP, I DON'T THINK, FROM SOME

OF THE MEASUREMENTS WE MADE.

Q. AS A RESULT OF THOSE DIFFERENCES, DO YOU THINK

THAT IN ANY WAY SKEWS THE APPLICATION OF ANY OF

YOUR FINDINGS OR CONCLUSIONS FROM 2B AS THEY MIGHT

APPLY TO 2A?

A. I DON'T THINK SO, BECAUSE THE DEPTH OF THE PEAT

IS STILL SUCH, THAT IT'S MUCH DEEPER THAN THE

ROOTING DEPTH OF THE PLANT ROOTS. AND, ALSO, 2B

IS VERY SIMILAR TO CONSERVATION AREA 3A, WHICH

ALSO IS DOMINATED BY SAWGRASS AND A SHALLOWER

PEAT, AND HAS A LITTLE BIT MORE MINERAL MATERIAL

IN IT.

Q. WHAT ABOUT THE EVERGLADES PROTECTION AREA IN

GENERAL, THE ENTIRE, INCLUDING THE PARK AND ALL

THE WCA'S?

A. WELL, FROM MY UNDERSTANDING OF THE LOXAHATCHEE,

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 520

THAT AREA IS THE ONE THAT REALLY DIFFERS IN TERMS

OF THE SOILS, AND FROM THE REST OF THE

CONSERVATION AREAS IN THE PARK. AND I THINK 2B

IS CERTAINLY MORE LIKE 2A AND 3A IN THE PARK THAN

IT IS -- YOU KNOW, IT HAS THAT CIRCUMNEUTRAL pH AS

OPPOSED TO THE MORE ACIDIC pH THAT CONSERVATION

AREA 1 HAS.

Q. AM I CORRECT THAT THIS FERTILIZER STUDY WAS NOT

DESIGNED, AND, IN FACT, THERE ARE NO CONCLUSIONS

IN THIS CHAPTER, I BELIEVE, THAT REFLECT THE

EFFECT OF HYDROPERIOD ON---

A. NO, IT DOES NOT REALLY ADDRESS HYDROPERIOD.

Q. CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT THE REASON OF INCLUDING

FIGURE 1-2 IS, THEN?

A. WELL, WATER LEVEL -- CERTAINLY IN ANY WETLAND,

HYDROPERIOD IS IMPORTANT, AND IT'S EASY TO

MEASURE. SO, WE THOUGHT IT WOULD BE GOOD JUST TO

KEEP A RUNNING RECORD OF WHAT THE WATER LEVELS ARE

IN THE PLOTS, AND IT WILL PROVIDE SOME INFORMATION

ON HYDROPERIOD IN THESE THREE KINDS OF

COMMUNITIES. BUT, IT IS SECONDARY TO THE

FERTILIZER ADDITIONS.

Q. OKAY. IS THE INFORMATION THAT'S CONTAINED IN

FIGURE 1-2 USED ANYWHERE IN THIS REPORT TO REACH

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 521

ANY CONCLUSIONS?

A. NO. ALL I'M DOING IS PRESENTING IT TO SHOW THAT

THE THREE SITES DO HAVE SOMEWHAT DIFFERENT

HYDROPERIODS.

Q. DO YOU ANTICIPATE USING THIS INFORMATION TO REACH

CONCLUSIONS IN SOME FUTURE REPORT?

A. TO BE HONEST WITH YOU, I DON'T THINK -- WE CAN

MAYBE DRAW SOME CIRCUMSTANTIAL CONCLUSIONS FROM

IT, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT YOU CAN DRAW SOME

REALLY -- YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO DRAW

HARD AND FAST CONCLUSIONS FROM THE WATER LEVEL

DATA. AGAIN, I THINK WHAT YOU NEED IS -- YOU

WOULD NEED TO MANIPULATE THE WATER LEVELS IN SOME

WAY, LIKE DR. RICHARDSON'S DOING IN THE HYDROLOGY

STUDY.

Q. OKAY. HOW IS HE MANIPULATING THE WATERS IN THAT

STUDY?

A. HE HAS RAISED AND LOWERED THE SOIL SURFACE, BY

SHOVELING PEAT, BASICALLY.

Q. DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE LEVELS ARE?

A. NO, NOT OFF -- I DON'T -- NOT OFF THE TOP OF MY

HEAD. AGAIN, THAT'S SOMETHING -- IT'S PROBABLY IN

A CHAPTER IN HERE. BUT I'M NOT INVOLVED IN THAT,

SO.

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 522

Q. ON PAGE 16, THE PARAGRAPH JUST BEFORE THE BIOMASS

SAMPLING SECTION, IT INDICATES THE FERTILIZER HAS

BEEN APPLIED BY HAND.

A. UH-HUH (YES).

Q. CAN YOU DESCRIBE TO ME, HOW -- WHAT YOU MEAN BY

HAND APPLICATION?

A. WELL, I HAD MY LITTLE BAG WITH FERTILIZER AND SAND

IN IT, AND I'D STICK MY HAND IN IT, AND AFTER IT

SITS -- IT'S MIXED IN THE LAB AND EVERYTHING,

FIRST, SO WE GET IT NICE AND HOMOGENEOUS, AND WE

STAND ON ONE SIDE OF THE PLOT, AND WE GO LIKE THAT

(WITNESS DEMONSTRATING) AND THEN WE MOVE TO

ANOTHER SIDE OF THE PLOT AND WE GO LIKE THAT, AND

THEN WE GO AROUND THE THIRD SIDE AND DO THE SAME

THING, AND THEN THE FOURTH SIDE. SO, THAT'S A

HAND AND A BAG OF FERTILIZER, BASICALLY.

Q. OKAY. SO AS FAR AS DISTRIBUTION AMONG THE PLOTS,

IT'S PRETTY MUCH EYEBALLED?

A. WELL, YOU KNOW THAT THE TOTAL AMOUNT GOES INTO THE

PLOT, AND YOU DO THE BEST YOU CAN TO GET IT EVENLY

DISTRIBUTED.

Q. AND THE LAST SENTENCE IN THAT PARAGRAPH SAYS --

IT SAYS THAT, "TWO CONTROL TREATMENTS, ONE WITH

FIBERGLASS SIDING AND ONE WITHOUT SIDING, WERE

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 523

ESTABLISHED FOR COMPARISON WITH THE FERTILIZER

APPLICATIONS, AND TO INVESTIGATE THE EFFECTS OF

THE FIBERGLASS SIDING ON BIOMASS PRODUCTION."

WHAT WERE THE EFFECTS OF THE FIBERGLASS ON BIOMASS

PRODUCTION?

A. I'D HAVE TO GO LOOK IN THE RESULTS AND DISCUSSION.

AT THE SAWGRASS SITE, WE SEEMED TO SEE AN EFFECT.

AT THE MIXED SITE, WE DIDN'T SEEM TO SEE AN

EFFECT. AND AT THE SLOUGH SITE, WE DIDN'T SEEM

TO SEE AN EFFECT. BUT, IF WE GO, I BELIEVE, TO

PAGE 19 UNDER "STANDING CROP BIOMASS," WE SAY THAT

IN -- IT'S THE SECOND SENTENCE, "IN THE SAWGRASS

PLOTS, ORGANIC CARBON IN ABOVEGROUND VEGETATION

WERE SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER IN THE UNENCLOSED

CONTROL PLOTS AS COMPARED TO THE CONTROL PLOTS

WITH SIDES, SUGGESTING THAT THE FIBERGLASS SIDING

CAUSES A REDUCTION IN STANDING CROP BIOMASS AT

THIS SITE."

Q. SO, YOU CONCLUDED FROM THAT FINDING THAT THE

FIBERGLASS CAN CAUSE A REDUCTION IN STANDING CROP

BIOMASS?

A. WELL, LET ME CONTINUE, BECAUSE I SAY IT SUGGESTS,

AND THE REASON I'M NOT SURE THAT IT DOES, IS

BECAUSE IF YOU GO TO THE BOTTOM OF PAGE 19 TO A

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 524

SENTENCE, IT SAYS, "IN CONTRAST TO THE SAWGRASS

COMMUNITY, THE BIOMASS WAS HIGHER IN THE CONTROL

PLOTS WITH SIDES, THAN WITHOUT SIDES." AND SO

WHAT I REALLY THINK, IS THAT WHAT WE SEE AT THE

SAWGRASS SITE IS MORE AN ARTIFACT OF THE DATA.

IF THERE WAS A TRUE EFFECT OF SITING, I WOULD

HAVE THOUGHT WE'D HAVE SEEN IT AT BOTH THE

SAWGRASS AND THE MIXED SITES. BUT, EVEN IF THERE

IS AN EFFECT, BECAUSE WE HAD TWO TYPES OF CONTROL

PLOTS, WE CAN STILL COMPARE OUR FERTILIZER

TREATMENTS WITH THE APPROPRIATE CONTROL.

Q. OKAY. SO, NOTWITHSTANDING THE FINDINGS IN THE

SAWGRASS PLOTS, YOU'RE OF THE OPINION THAT THE

FIBERGLASS DOES NOT REALLY HAVE AN EFFECT?

A. WELL, I THINK BECAUSE IT'S CONFLICTING AT THE

TWO SITES, THAT -- I'M NOT SURE. I DON'T -- I

REALLY DON'T THINK THERE IS AN EFFECT. BUT,

AGAIN, SINCE WE SAMPLED THIS YEAR IN THESE SAME

PLOTS, IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE WHETHER THAT

EFFECT SHOWS UP AGAIN. AND YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER,

THE SAWGRASS SITE IS ALMOST PURE -- WELL, IT IS

PURE SAWGRASS. THERE'S A FEW LITTLE THINGS IN

THERE, BUT THE MIXED SITE IS STILL ABOUT EIGHTY

PERCENT SAWGRASS, SO YOU WOULD THINK THAT YOU

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 525

WOULD SEE A REDUCTION THERE, TOO, AND WE SAW THE

REVERSE THERE. SO IT WAS HIGHER IN THE PLOTS THAT

HAD THE SIDES, SO.

Q. WELL, YOU MENTIONED YOUR CONTROL PLOTS, THE FIGURE

1-3 REFLECTS, IN THE TOP FIGURE THERE---

A. RIGHT.

Q. ---THAT'S THE SAWGRASS PLOTS. IS THAT RIGHT?

A. YES.

Q. OKAY. THE CONTROLS 1 AND 2 SEEM TO HAVE A

SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE, AND I THINK YOU'VE

ASTERISKED IT IN THE -- DOWN BELOW, WHICH SAYS

IT "DENOTES THAT C2 (UNENCLOSED) HAS

SIGNIFICANTLY MORE STANDING CROP BIOMASS THAT

C1 (WITH SIDES)."

A. RIGHT. AND I SAY THAT IN THE TEXT.

Q. OKAY. DO YOU KNOW WHY THAT OCCURRED?

A. WELL, IF IT IS -- LET'S ASSUME THAT IT IS A REAL

EFFECT -- WHICH I'M NOT CONVINCED THAT IT IS,

BECAUSE WE DON'T SEE THAT AT THE MIXED SITE --

I THINK WHAT WOULD CAUSE THAT IS, IS TO PUT THE

SIDING INTO THE GROUND, TO PUT AT TWENTY

CENTIMETERS INTO THE PEAT, WE HAD TO TAKE A SPADE

AND KIND OF SHOVEL A LITTLE TRENCH SO IT WOULD

PUSH DOWN, AND IT'S POSSIBLE THAT WE CUT ENOUGH

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 526

ROOTS THAT IT REDUCED THE BIOMASS OF THOSE PLOTS.

Q. HAVE YOU TAKEN ANY -- TAKEN ANY ACTION TO TAKE

INTO ACCOUNT THIS VARIANCE IN THE CONTROLS IN YOUR

CALCULATION?

A. WELL, AT THIS POINT, NO. THE ONLY THING I THINK

I COULD DO WOULD BE TO SAY, OKAY, THERE IS AN

EFFECT. IF I DO BELIEVE THAT THERE IS ONE -- AND,

AGAIN, I'M NOT CONVINCED THAT THERE IS -- TO SAY

WELL -- WELL, WE'LL JUST COMPARE THE CONTROL PLOT

WITH SIDES WITH THE OTHER TREATMENTS, AND WE

HAVEN'T DONE THAT YET.

Q. THE CONTROL SITE WITH SIDES WITH THE TREATMENTS?

A. RIGHT, WHICH ALSO HAVE SIDES.

Q. ALL RIGHT. BUT IF -- IF THE FIBERGLASS SIDES ARE

ACTUALLY HAVING AN EFFECT, WON'T THAT SKEW THE

RESULTS OF WHATEVER YOU'RE TRYING TO ESTABLISH IS

OCCURRING IN THE EVERGLADES?

A. WELL, NO, I THINK IT WOULD STILL TELL US THAT WE

WERE STILL LOOKING AT NUTRIENT ADDITIONS, BUT WE

JUST HAVE TO COMPARE IT WITH THE APPROPRIATE

CONTROL PLOT. I THINK THE INFORMATION WOULD STILL

BE APPLICABLE. AGAIN, AND SINCE NOW WE'RE WORKING

UP THE SECOND YEAR OF DATA, I THINK IT WOULD BE

INTERESTING TO SEE WHETHER WE SEE THIS DIFFERENCE

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 527

AGAIN THIS YEAR.

Q. PAGE 19, UNDER "STANDING CROP BIOMASS," HERE, THE

FIRST SENTENCE THERE REFLECTS THAT "NITROGEN AND

PHOSPHORUS APPLICATIONS HAD NO SIGNIFICANT EFFECT

ON ABOVEGROUND STANDING CROP BIOMASS IN THE

SAWGRASS OR MIXED SAWGRASS CATTAIL COMMUNITIES

AFTER ONE YEAR OF FERTILIZER APPLICATIONS." NOW,

I BELIEVE -- AM I CORRECT, YOU TESTIFIED YESTERDAY

THAT -- THAT THE DATA FROM THE SECOND YEAR THAT'S

COMING IN AT THIS POINT, WHICH YOU HAVE NOT YET

ANALYZED, SEEMS TO SUGGEST THAT THERE MAY BE AN

INCREASE IN BIOMASS?

A. I THINK THAT THERE PROBABLY WILL BE AN INCREASE,

A SIGNIFICANT INCREASE IN BIOMASS PRODUCTION, JUST

LOOKING AT THE PLOTS, WHERE PHOSPHORUS IS ADDED,

THE GROWTH IS LUXURIANT, VERY DENSE, VERY TALL,

VERY GREEN. BUT, AGAIN, I'M NOT GOING TO STICK MY

NECK OUT AND EMPHATICALLY STATE IT UNTIL I GET THE

NUMBERS CRUNCHED AND LOOK STATISTICALLY AT THE

DIFFERENCES.

Q. HAVE YOU NOTED ANY -- WELL, AGAIN, I UNDERSTAND,

I DON'T WANT TO TRY TO COMMIT YOU TO SOMETHING

BEFORE YOU'VE ANALYZED THE NUMBERS, BUT YOU HAVE

INDICATED THAT, JUST LOOKING AT IT, IT LOOKS LIKE

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 528

THAT'S GOING TO OCCUR. IS THAT WITH REGARD TO

SAWGRASS AND THE MIXED COMMUNITIES?

A. I FEEL MORE CONFIDENT AT THE SAWGRASS SITE. THE

MIXED SITE, IF THERE IS A DIFFERENCE, IT'S REALLY

NOT APPARENT, LOOKING AT IT VISUALLY.

Q. OKAY. WHAT ABOUT THE SLOUGH COMMUNITIES?

A. AGAIN, IT, TOO, AT LEAST IN TERMS OF THE

MACROPHYTES, I DON'T THINK I CAN REALLY SAY

ANYTHING ABOUT THAT. I DON'T FEEL CONFIDENT ABOUT

IT.

Q. ON THE NEXT PAGE, MIDDLE OF THE PARAGRAPH,

SENTENCE READS, "NO EXPANSION OF CATTAIL WAS

DETECTED AT THE SAWGRASS OR MIXED SITES AFTER THE

FIRST YEAR OF FERTILIZATION." WHAT KIND OF

DETECTION METHODS WERE YOU USING TO DETERMINE

WHETHER THERE'S AN EXPANSION?

A. ALL WE DID WAS BASICALLY JUST LOOK AT THE STANDING

CROP BIOMASS OF CATTAIL IN THE CONTROL PLOTS

VERSUS THE FERTILIZED PLOTS, AND THERE WAS NO

SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE IN IT.

Q. SO, YOU'D BE WEIGHING THE BIOMASS, AS OPPOSED TO A

COUNTING OF INDIVIDUAL PLANTS?

A. RIGHT. THAT'S TRUE. THAT'S HOW WE MEASURE.

THAT'S OUR ESTIMATE OF PRODUCTIVITY.

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 529

Q. ARE YOU STILL KEEPING TRACK OF THAT? I MEAN, IS

THAT SOMETHING THAT'S ONGOING?

A. OH, YES. I MEAN, WE'RE -- WE'RE INTERESTED IN

THIS CATTAIL ENCROACHMENT INTO THESE PLOTS, TO SEE

WHETHER IT OCCURS, AND IN WHAT FERTILIZER

TREATMENTS. BUT MY FEELING IS, IS A SHIFT IN

PLANT SPECIES COMPOSITION IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN

IN A YEAR OR TWO. I THINK IT MAY BE IN THE THREE

TO FIVE YEAR RANGE AND, WHO KNOWS, IT MAY TAKE

LONGER THAN THAT.

Q. THE NEXT PAGE -- EXCUSE MY PRONUNCIATION IF IT'S

WRONG -- BUT WE HAD THE -- THE FIRST SENTENCE IN

THAT PARAGRAPH, AFTER THE FIRST PHRASE, READS

THAT, "THE ORGANIC CARBON STANDING CROP OF

FLOATING UTRICULARIA-PERIPHYTON" -- IS THAT RIGHT

WAY?

A. UH-HUH (YES).

Q. "---MAT WAS SIGNIFICANTLY AFFECTED BY THE HIGHEST

PHOSPHORUS APPLICATIONS." IS THAT RELATED TO THE

SLOUGH COMMUNITY?

A. YES. THAT'S THE ONLY COMMUNITY THAT WE WORKED

IN THAT HAD THIS -- HAD A SIGNIFICANT PERIPHYTON

MAT.

Q. RIGHT AFTER THAT, TWO SENTENCES DOWN, YOU TALK

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 530

ABOUT THE CONTROL PLOTS GOING FROM 92 -- WAS 92 TO

98, COMPARED TO 20 TO 21 GRAMS PER METER SQUARED

IN THE HIGH PHOSPHORUS. WHAT DID YOU CONCLUDE

FROM THOSE DIFFERENCES?

A. THE CONCLUSION IS THAT THE HIGHEST PHOSPHORUS

APPLICATIONS REDUCE THE STANDING CROP BIOMASS OF

THIS UTRICULARIA-PERIPHYTON COMPLEX.

Q. OKAY. DO YOU CONSIDER THE LOSS OF THE

UTRICULARIA-PERIPHYTON -- I CAN'T GET THAT ALL OUT

IN ONE WORD -- STANDING CROP AT THE HIGH

PHOSPHORUS TREATMENTS AS A SIGNIFICANT EFFECT

OF PHOSPHORUS LOADING TO THE EVERGLADES'

ECOSYSTEM?

A. YEAH, I THINK SO. IN FACT, IN THE SUMMARY, I

THINK I SAY SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT. IF YOU GO

TO PAGE 31, I SAY THAT -- IT'S THE LAST, NEXT TO

LAST SENTENCE -- "THE DECLINE IN STANDING CROP

BIOMASS OF UTRICULARIA-PERIPHYTON IN THE HIGH P

TREATMENT, SUGGEST THAT THIS COMPONENT OF THE

SLOUGH MAY BE AN EARLY INDICATOR OF P ENRICHMENT

IN THE EVERGLADES."

Q. DO YOU STILL HOLD THAT CONCLUSION?

A. YEAH, I THINK---

Q. WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY PHOSPHORUS ENRICHMENT IN THAT

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 531

SENTENCE?

A. I MEAN, ADDITIONS OF PHOSPHORUS TO THE -- TO THE

EVERGLADES.

Q. AND THAT CONCLUSION'S BASED UPON THE RESULTS OF

THIS STUDY?

A. YES. AND THERE HAVE BEEN PREVIOUS RESEARCHERS WHO

HAVE FOUND THIS SIMILAR RESPONSE, AND I THINK I'VE

CITED THEM IN HERE.

Q. DO YOU CONSIDER THE LOSS OF THE UTRI -- BOY, I

CAN'T GET THAT WORD -- UTRICULARIA STANDING CROP

BIOMASS TO BE AN ECOLOGICALLY SIGNIFICANT CHANGE

IN THE MACROPHYTE SPECIES COMPOSITION?

A. WELL, MY UNDERSTANDING IS -- I GUESS UTRICULARIA

IS A SUBMERGED AQUATIC, AND IT IS -- IS -- I THINK

IT'S A MACROPHYTE. I DON'T KNOW. IF SOMEBODY

COULD TELL ME IT IS, I MIGHT BE ABLE TO ADDRESS IT

MORE. CAN YOU NOD YOUR HEAD---

Q. ASSUMING---

A. ---IS IT A MACROPHYTE?

Q. LET ME REPHRASE THE QUESTION THEN. ASSUMING IT'S

A MACROPHYTE, WOULD YOU CONSIDER THAT SIGNIFICANT?

A. YEAH, I THINK THAT IS -- THAT IS IMPORTANT.

Q. DURING YOUR STUDY AND COLLECTION OF DATA, DID YOU

NOTICE A LARGE INITIAL INCREASE IN THE PERIPHYTON

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 532

ON THE UTRICULARIA?

A. I DID NOT NOTICE THAT, BUT DR. VYMAZAL, WHO DID

WORK WITH THE PERIPHYTON, IF I RECALL -- AGAIN,

HE'S THE PERIPHYTON PERSON --FOUND THAT -- HE PUT

OUT ARTIFICIAL SUBSTRATES. HE PUT OUT SLIDES IN

THE SLOUGH PLOTS AND FOUND THAT THE PERIPHYTON

GREW -- THERE WAS A SIGNIFICANT INCREASE IN GROWTH

OF PERIPHYTON ON THE SLIDES RECEIVING THE HIGHEST

PHOSPHORUS APPLICATIONS. BUT, AGAIN, THAT'S

ANOTHER CHAPTER IN HERE, AND HE'S THE PRIMARY

AUTHOR ON IT.

Q. WELL, MOVING DOWN TO THE END OF THE PAGE THERE,

IT TALKS ABOUT -- IT SAYS, "THE DISAPPEARANCE OF

THE UTRICULARIA-PERIPHYTON MAT DOES NOT

NECESSARILY INDICATE A DECLINE IN PERIPHYTON

PRODUCTIFITY -- PRODUCTIVITY." WHAT'S THE

DISTINCTION THAT'S BEING MADE THERE? CAN YOU

EXPLAIN THAT TO ME?

A. MAYBE REPHRASE THE QUESTION. I'M NOT QUITE SURE I

UNDERSTAND.

Q. OKAY. WELL, IF YOU CAN EXPLAIN TO ME WHAT

DISTINCTION IS BEING MADE BETWEEN THE

DISAPPEARANCE OF THE MAT, AND THE DECLINE IN THE

PERIPHYTON PRODUCTIVITY.

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 533

A. OKAY. AS I MENTIONED, IF YOU GO TO THE NEXT

SENTENCE AFTER THAT, DR. VYMAZAL -- "IN FACT,

VYMAZAL OBSERVED A SIGNIFICANT INCREASE IN

BIOMASS, PERIPHYTON BIOMASS, IN THE HIGH P

TREATMENT." AND IF YOU READ THE NEXT COUPLE OF

SENTENCES, HE POSTULATES -- AND THIS IS SOMETHING

THAT STEWARD AND ORNES POSTULATED, I THINK YEARS

AGO -- THAT IT'S LIKELY THAT THE INCREASED

PERIPHYTON PRODUCTIVITY, THAT HE SAW, REDUCES THE

LIGHT INTENSITY, SHADING OUT FLOATING AQUATIC

VEGETATION, SUCH AS UTRICULARIA. AND AS

UTRICULARIA DIES BACK, THE AMOUNT OF SUBSTRATE

AVAILABLE FOR PERIPHYTON TO ATTACH TO, DECREASES

AND RESULTING IN A DECLINE IN THE STANDING CROP

BIOMASS OF THE COMBINED COMPONENT.

Q. ARE THOSE CONCLUSIONS YOU HAVE REACHED, OR THOSE

ARE CONCLUSIONS OF VYMAZAL THAT YOU'RE JUST

REPEATING IN HERE?

A. WELL, THESE ARE CONCLUSIONS THAT REALLY, I THINK

STEWARD AND ORNES FIRST POSTULATED. IF YOU GO

BACK TO PAGE 22, AT THE BOTTOM, I CITE THEM 1975a,

AND WE OBSERVED THIS SAME SORT OF PHENOMENA, AND

IT SOUNDS LIKE A PLAUSIBLE EXPLANATION TO ME. IT

MAKES SENSE.

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 534

Q. SO, YOU HAVEN'T MADE AN INDEPENDENT DETERMINATION

THAT -- THAT, AS A RESULT OF YOUR FERTILIZING

STUDY, THAT THIS HAS OCCURRED, SO AS TO SHADE OUT

THE---

A. WELL, WE SEE THE SAME PHENOMENA, AND I FALL BACK

ON THEIR THEORY AS TO WHY IT OCCURS. I THINK THAT

MAKES SENSE. THAT MAY NOT BE THE TRUE WAY THAT IT

HAPPENS, BUT I THINK THAT'S THE BEST EXPLANATION

AT THIS TIME.

Q. WERE DR. VYMAZAL'S -- OR DR. VYMAZAL'S STUDY,

WHICH IS IN CHAPTER TWO OF THIS REPORT, WAS THAT

BASED UPON THE DATA COLLECTED FROM THIS SAME

SLOUGH?

A. YEAH. HE PUT HIS SUBSTRATES IN MY -- IN THESE

SLOUGH PLOTS, YES. I MEAN, THIS IS THE SAME --

THAT'S THE NICE THING ABOUT THIS STUDY, YOU CAN

ACTUALLY DO SEVERAL DIFFERENT THINGS IN IT, AND

GET SOME USEFUL INFORMATION OUT OF IT.

(THEREUPON, MR. NETTLETON

AND MR. GRIMSHAW CONFER.)

Q. (BY MR. NETTLETON) DID YOU OR DR. VYMAZAL TAKE

ANY LIGHT OR LIGHT LEVEL READINGS?

A. NO, HUH-UH (NO). THAT WOULDN'T -- THAT WOULD

PROBABLY BE A GOOD IDEA, IF YOU COULD PUT IT UNDER

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 535

THE WATER AND MEASURE SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

Q. BUT THAT WAS NOT DONE AS PART OF THIS STUDY?

A. NO, NO.

MR. NETTLETON: I'M GOING TO TRY

TO MOVE LONG.

WITNESS: OKAY. WELL, YOU CAN

ALWAYS COME BACK TO IT.

Q. (BY MR. NETTLETON) AND YOU CONCLUDE ON PAGE 24

THAT, "PHOSPHORUS ADDITIONS RESULTED IN INCREASED

PHOSPHORUS UPTAKE BY THE EMERGENT MACROPHYTES."

IS THAT RIGHT?

A. YES.

Q. THAT'S ONE OF THE TWO CONCLUSIONS THAT WE WERE

DISCUSSING YESTERDAY, THAT RESULTED FROM THIS

STUDY?

A. UH-HUH (YES), ONE OF THE TWO MAJOR CONCLUSIONS.

Q. AND THAT WAS WITH REGARD TO BOTH SAWGRASS AND

CATTAILS?

A. YES.

Q. AND YOU ALSO FOUND OUT WITH REGARD TO THE

UTRICULARIA -- BOY, I DIDN'T SAY THAT RIGHT ---

PERIPHYTON.

DR. RICHARDSON: UTRICULARIA.

MR. NETTLETON: I'LL NEVER GET IT

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 536

RIGHT.

MR. GREEN: UTRICULARIA.

DR. RICHARDSON: AND THE OTHER ONE IS

VYMAZAL.

MR. NETTLETON: VYMAZAL?

DR. RICHARDSON: VYMAZAL.

MR. NETTLETON: I'M SORRY.

WITNESS: YOU CAN CALL HIM JAN.

Q. (BY MR. NETTLETON) YOU MADE THE SAME CONCLUSION

WITH REGARD TO THE PERIPHYTON, RIGHT?

A. EXCUSE ME?

Q. THE PHOSPHORUS UPTAKE?

A. WELL, YEAH, BUT I DIDN'T REALLY SEPARATE OUT THE

PERIPHYTON FROM THE UTRICULARIA. I TREATED THEM

AS SORT OF A COMPONENT, BECAUSE IT'S SO DIFFICULT

TO SEPARATE THEM. BUT THAT COMPONENT, THERE WAS

AN INCREASE IN PHOSPHORUS UPTAKE BY THAT

UTRICULARIA-PERIPHYTON COMPLEX, YES.

Q. ALL RIGHT. SO, THOSE WERE ANALYZED TOGETHER---

A. RIGHT.

Q. ---TO DETERMINE TOTAL PHOSPHORUS?

A. YES.

Q. DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THE ADDING OF FERTILIZER AND

INCREASED BIOMASS OF MACROPHYTES REDUCES THE

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 537

AMOUNT OF LIGHT REACHING THE SOIL SURFACE?

A. OKAY. LET ME MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND THAT. YOU'RE

ASKING ME IF INCREASED -- BY ADDING PHOSPHORUS, DO

WE INCREASE BIOMASS, THEREBY REDUCING LIGHT

REACHING THE SURFACE?

Q. RIGHT.

A. YEAH, I THINK IF YOU GET A BIG ENOUGH INCREASE IN

BIOMASS, THAT CERTAINLY HAPPENS.

Q. OKAY. NOW, YOU DID NOT FIND THE SAME EFFECT

WITH REGARD TO PHOSPHORUS UPTAKE -- AND I'M

GOING TO MESS UP ANOTHER PRONUNCIATION HERE,

BUT THE---

A. ELEOCHARIS.

Q. ---THAT'S THE ONE---

A. OKAY.

Q. ---IN THE SLOUGH COMMUNITY, IS THAT RIGHT?

A. THAT'S RIGHT.

Q. OKAY. NOW, THAT PARTICULAR, IS THAT A SPECIES?

AM I USING THE RIGHT TERM?

A. IT'S A GENUS.

Q. A GENUS?

A. YEAH.

Q. THAT'S INDICATED AS THE DOMINANT MACROPHYTE IN THE

SLOUGH COMMUNITY?

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 538

A. RIGHT.

Q. NOW, IF MY MEMORY IS CORRECT, I SAW SOMEWHERE IN

THIS REPORT THAT -- THAT IT WAS FIVE PERCENT OF

THE COMMUNITY. DOES THAT---

A. NO, IT HAD TO HAVE BEEN MORE THAN THAT.

Q. IT WAS MORE THAN THAT?

A. YEAH, IT HAD TO HAVE BEEN. LET'S BACK UP. WELL,

ANYWAY -- I DON'T REALLY ADDRESS HOW MUCH IT WAS.

AT LEAST, I DON'T SEE IT RIGHT OFF THE BAT. BUT

RIGHT, IF YOU LOOK AT FIGURE 1-4 ON PAGE 23, YOU

SEE ELEOCHARIS STANDING CROP BIOMASS VERSUS ALL

THE OTHER MACROPHYTES COMBINED, AND YOU CAN SEE

THAT IT'S -- IN ALMOST ALL PLOTS, IT'S HIGHER.

AND THAT "OTHER" INCLUDES ABOUT FIVE OR SIX

DIFFERENT SPECIES.

Q. OKAY. DID YOU MEASURE THE PHOSPHORUS IN ANY OF

THE OTHER SPECIES OR GENUS?

A. YEAH, WE MEASURED IT IN PANICUM, BECAUSE IT WAS

PRETTY ABUNDANT, BUT THE PROBLEM WITH THE OTHER

SPECIES WAS, THEY WERE NOT FOUND IN ALL PLOTS, AND

SO WE COULDN'T DO A STATISTICAL COMPARISON. THEY

WERE SCATTERED. YOU WOULD FIND NYMPHAEA IN SOME,

BUT NOT IN ALL.

Q. SO, WHEN YOU WERE DOING THIS -- THE TESTING FOR

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 539

THE PURPOSES OF THIS STUDY, YOU WERE ATTEMPTING TO

JUST COMPARE THE DIFFERENT SPECIES THAT APPEARED

IN EACH COMMUNITY---

A. RIGHT.

Q. ---AS OPPOSED TO THE TOTAL?

A. RIGHT. I MEAN, WE LOOKED AT THE TOTAL, BUT IT

SEEMED TO MAKE MORE SENSE TO BREAK IT OUT BY

SPECIES, AND THEN GROUP THESE ONES AS OTHER.

Q. DID YOU REACH ANY CONCLUSION AS TO WHY THE

PHOSPHORUS UPTAKE DID NOT OCCUR IN THE SLOUGH

COMMUNITY MACROPHYTE THAT WAS ANALYZED?

A. I DIDN'T EXPLICITLY STATE IT IN HERE, BUT WHAT I

THINK IS HAPPENING IS, AT THE SLOUGH -- THERE'S

ALWAYS SURFACE WATER PRESENT, AND I THINK REALLY,

MOST OF THE PHOSPHORUS IS TAKEN UP IN THE WATER

COLUMN BY THE PERIPHYTON AND THE FLOATING

AQUATICS. YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER, THESE

MACROPHYTES, LIKE ELEOCHARIS, ARE ROOTED DOWN IN

THE SOIL, AND I THINK VERY LITTLE PHOSPHORUS MADE

IT DOWN INTO THE SUBSTRATE, AT LEAST IN THE FIRST

YEAR.

Q. IS THAT PRETTY MUCH WHAT YOU SAY ON PAGE 27, RIGHT

AFTER THE---

A. THAT MAY BE. YEAH, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I SAY.

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 540

Q. WHAT IS THAT BASED ON, THOUGH? HOW DO YOU REACH

THAT CONCLUSION, THAT IT'S BEING ABSORBED BY

THE---

A. IT'S JUST -- JUST BY SEEING THE HIGHER

CONCENTRATIONS IN THE UTRICULARIA-PERIPHYTON MAT.

I MEAN, IT'S MORE SPECULATION, REALLY, THAN

ANYTHING ELSE.

Q. ON PAGE 29, THE END OF THAT PARAGRAPH, BEFORE

"NITROGEN" STARTS, THE LAST TWO SENTENCES READ,

"APPARENTLY, CATTAIL IS AN OPPORTUNISTIC SPECIES

THAT TAKES ADVANTAGE OF INCREASED NUTRIENT SUPPLY

BY ASSIMILATING LARGE RESERVES OF CARBON AND

NUTRIENTS, ESPECIALLY PHOSPHORUS," CITING TO

DAVIS, '89. THE NEXT SENTENCE IS "IN CONTRAST,

SAWGRASS, WHICH IS SLOWER TO RESPOND TO INCREASED

NUTRIENT SUPPLY THAN CATTAIL, IS BETTER ADAPTED TO

A LOW NUTRIENT ENVIRONMENT," CITING DAVIS '89 AND

'91. DO YOU AGREE WITH THOSE STATEMENTS?

A. YEAH, I THINK SO. THAT'S WHY -- AND WE SEE IN OUR

DATA THAT THE PHOSPHORUS CONTENT IN CATTAIL IS --

IS CONSISTENTLY HIGHER THAN THE PHOSPHORUS CONTENT

IN SAWGRASS, REGARDLESS OF THE TREATMENT. IF YOU

LOOK ON PAGE 26, TABLE 1-3, YOU SEE SAWGRASS IN

THE CONTROL PLOTS THAT RECEIVE NO PHOSPHORUS,

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 541

ABOUT 250 MICROGRAMS PER GRAM, AND CATTAIL IN THE

CONTROL PLOTS, THAT ALSO DON'T RECEIVE PHOSPHORUS,

ARE 450 TO 700 MICROGRAMS PER GRAM. AND, AGAIN,

YOU SEE THAT SAME TREND WHEN YOU ADD PHOSPHORUS

FERTILIZER. AGAIN, CATTAIL SEEMS TO HAVE HIGHER

CONCENTRATIONS.

Q. ARE YOU AWARE OF ANY DATA THAT EXISTS THAT MIGHT

BE CONTRARY TO THAT CONCLUSION?

A. I'M NOT AWARE OF ANY.

Q. ON -- I'M FINISHED WITH THAT NOW. ON CRAFT

EXHIBIT NUMBER TWENTY-ONE---

MR. BURGESS: WERE THESE ALREADY

REFERRED TO, OR NOT?

MR. NETTLETON: THESE WERE PASSED

OUT WITH SUZAN'S COPIES THIS MORNING, I

BELIEVE.

WITNESS: ALL RIGHT.

Q. ---MY QUESTION IS REALLY FAIRLY SIMPLE, AND IT

DOESN'T SPECIFICALLY DEAL WITH THE EXHIBIT,

PER SE. IT'S JUST -- IT'S THE ONLY PLACE I'VE

SEEN THIS FIGURE, WHICH REFLECTS KIND OF A LAYOUT

OF THE PLOT, AND THAT'S FROM THE FERTILIZER STUDY?

A. RIGHT.

Q. AND I'M REFERRING SPECIFICALLY TO FIGURE TWO,

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 542

HERE.

A. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT EXHIBIT TWENTY-ONE?

Q. RIGHT.

A. OKAY.

Q. LET ME JUST ASK YOU THE QUESTION -- AND YOU MAY

NOT EVEN NEED TO REFER IT -- AND THAT IS, DID YOU

COLLECT ANY PORE WATER AND STAGED DATA IN THE

FIBERGLASS ENCLOSURES?

A. OH, YES. WE HAVE BEEN COLLECTING THAT.

Q. HAS THAT DATA BEEN PUT TOGETHER AT THIS POINT?

A. I THINK WE -- WE SHOWED SOME OF IT IN LAST YEAR'S

ANNUAL REPORT. WHAT I HAVE NOW IS TWO YEARS OF

THAT DATA, AND I'M TRYING TO GET IT ALL ON THE

COMPUTER AND CRUNCH IT AS ONE BIG DATA SET. IN

NEXT YEAR'S ANNUAL REPORT, YOU WILL SEE A PRETTY

IN-DEPTH CHAPTER ON THE TWO YEARS OF DATA FROM THE

FERTILIZER STUDY, INCLUDING PORE WATER AND SURFACE

WATER CHEMISTRY AND WATER LEVELS.

Q. OKAY. WHAT ARE YOU PLANNING TO USE THE DATA FROM

THE PORE WATER TO ESTABLISH?

A. JUST TO DETERMINE WHETHER WE ARE SEEING AN

ENRICHMENT OF PORE WATERS IN RESPONSE TO

FERTILIZER ADDITIONS.

Q. DO YOU KNOW WHO ELSE IS INVOLVED, BESIDES DR.

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 543

RICHARDSON, IN THE HYDROPERIOD -- HYDROLOGICAL

STUDY THAT'S GOING ON IN 2B?

A. HE'S DEFINITELY THE LEAD PERSON. I BELIEVE

JOHN ZAHINA IS INVOLVED WITH HIM, IN TERMS OF

THE DATA COLLECTION; AND BOB JOHNSON PROBABLY

IS INVOLVED ALSO, TO SOME EXTENT, IN THE DATA

COLLECTION.

Q. I APOLOGIZE, BUT I NEED TO GO BACK TO ONE THING IN

YOUR FERTILIZER STUDY. IT WAS ON PAGE 17 OF

CHAPTER ONE, AND IT'S IN YOUR TABLE -- TABLE 1-1,

REFERRING TO THE LEVEL OF MEDIUM PHOSPHORUS

LOADING. IT INDICATES 2.4, AND I BELIEVE YOU TOLD

US YESTERDAY IT WAS 1.2.

A. I'LL HAVE TO GO CHECK AND SEE. I THINK -- FOR

SOME REASON, I THINK IT'S 1.2, BUT I WOULD HAVE TO

GO BACK AND LOOK AT THAT. LET'S SEE IF I -- IF IN

THE METHODS I LIST WHAT THE -- THE RATES ARE. I

WOULD HAVE TO GO BACK AND SEE. BUT, FOR SOME

REASON, I DON'T THINK THAT 2.4 IS RIGHT. I THINK

IT'S 1.2.

Q. I MEAN, COULD THAT HAVE AN EFFECT ON THE

STATISTICAL ANALYSIS THAT YOU PERFORMED TO---

A. NO, IT WOULDN'T AFFECT THE OUTCOME, BUT IT WOULD

AFFECT -- WELL, FOR ONE THING, WE DIDN'T --

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 544

GENERALLY, WE DIDN'T SEE ANY RESPONSE TO MEDIUM

P APPLICATIONS, ALTHOUGH IT MAY BE IN ONE OF THE

PHOSPHORUS UPTAKES. NO, REALLY, IF YOU LOOK AT

THE DATA, AT THIS POINT, ONLY THE HIGHEST RATE

SHOWED ANY KIND OF SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE. BUT

IT IS -- IT'S IMPORTANT TO GO BACK. NONE OF THE

MEDIUM MP IN UTRICULARIA-PERIPHYTON MAT SHOWED

HIGHER PHOSPHORUS CONTENT. BUT, AGAIN, I NEED

TO CHECK THAT. I RECALL THAT -- I THINK IT'S

1.2.

Q. AS A SCIENTIST, IN GENERAL, ARE YOU CONCERNED

ABOUT PRESERVING THE ENVIRONMENT IN THE

EVERGLADES?

A. YEAH, I THINK I CONSIDER MYSELF AN ENVIRONMENTALLY

CONSCIOUS PERSON, I THINK.

Q. AND DO YOU CONSIDER THE NUTRIENT ENRICHMENT THAT'S

PRESENTLY OCCURRING TO BE CAUSING HARM TO THE

EVERGLADES?

MR. BURGESS: OBJECTION TO THE

FORM OF THE QUESTION.

MR. NETTLETON: YOU CAN ANSWER.

WITNESS: WELL, WHAT WAS THE

QUESTION, AGAIN?

MR. McCAUGHAN: REPEAT THE QUESTION,

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 545

PLEASE.

Q. (BY MR. NETTLETON) DO YOU CONSIDER THE NUTRIENT

ENRICHMENT THAT'S OCCURRING PRESENTLY IN THE

EVERGLADES PROTECTION AREA TO BE HARMFUL TO THE

SYSTEM?

A. I'M NOT SURE IF I -- IF HARMFUL, IF I WOULD AGREE

THAT IT'S HARMFUL. I WOULD AGREE THAT PARTS OF

THE EVERGLADES ARE CHANGING IN RESPONSE TO

NUTRIENT ADDITIONS.

Q. AS A SCIENTIST, DO YOU CONSIDER SUCH CHANGES TO BE

ADVERSE?

A. I DON'T WANT TO STEP OUT ON A LIMB AND ANSWER THAT

QUESTION. IT DEPENDS ON WHAT PEOPLE WANT THE

EVERGLADES TO BE, I THINK. IF YOU WANT A SAWGRASS

MARSH, I THINK IT PROBABLY -- THERE ARE AREAS THAT

ENRICHMENT IS ADVERSE.

Q. YOU -- WHEN MS. PONZOLI THIS MORNING WAS ASKING

ABOUT WHETHER YOU WERE RECEIVING ANY COMPENSATION,

YOU INDICATED YOU HAD SOME MIXED FEELINGS ABOUT

THAT. COULD YOU TELL ME WHAT YOUR MIXED FEELINGS

ABOUT THAT ARE?

A. WELL, I JUST MEANT THAT IF I'M GOING TO THROUGH

THIS DEPOSITION, IT MIGHT BE NICE TO BE

COMPENSATED; BUT ON THE FLIP SIDE OF THE COIN, IT

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 546

MIGHT BE BETTER JUST TO NOT BE COMPENSATED AND GET

AS FAR AWAY FROM THIS TYPE ENVIRONMENT AS IS

POSSIBLE. SO, THAT'S WHAT I MEAN BY MIXED

FEELINGS.

Q. WELL, DO YOU FEEL THAT ANY OF THE RESEARCH THAT

YOU HAVE BEEN DOING HAS AT ALL BEEN COMPROMISED OR

INFLUENCED BY THE FACT THAT A PARTICULAR INDUSTRY

MAY BE FUNDING IT?

A. NOT AT ALL. I DON'T HAVE THAT -- THAT CONCERN

WITH IT. AND I'LL SAY NOW, WE HAVE NOT -- I HAVE

NOT BEEN COERCED INTO TRYING TO GENERATE ANY KIND

OF RESULTS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. I MEAN, YOU

LOOK AT THE DATA. WE FIND THINGS THAT I THINK

MOST PEOPLE WOULD AGREE THAT THE AGRICULTURAL

INTERESTS WOULD PROBABLY NOT BE HAPPY WITH SOME OF

OUR FINDINGS.

Q. MY FINAL QUESTION CONCERNS EXHIBIT NUMBER

THIRTY-FIVE, WHICH IS -- I'M NOT SURE THAT THIS

HAS BEEN DISCUSSED IN THE TESTIMONY, OTHER THAN BY

REFERENCE BEFORE. IT'S A REPORT ENTITLED "MERCURY

CONTAMINATION IN THE EVERGLADES ECOSYSTEM." IT'S

A -- IT INDICATES IT'S A DRAFT PREPARED FOR U.S.

EPA REGION FOUR. ON PAGE TEN OF THIS EXHIBIT, THE

FOLLOWING -- I'LL JUST QUOTE IT -- STATES THAT THE

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 547

"ABOVE BRIEF EXPLANATION" -- REFERRING TO WHAT IS

ABOVE, OBVIOUSLY -- "LEADS TO THE FOLLOWING

HYPOTHESIS. THE EUTROPHICATION OF THE EVERGLADES

IS RESULTING IN THE CONDITIONS FOR THE METHYLATION

OF MERCURY." DO YOU AGREE THAT THAT'S A

POSSIBILITY?

A. CAN I -- CAN I LOOK AT THE DOCUMENT?

Q. SURE.

(THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.)

A. OKAY. AND THE QUESTION IS AGAIN?

Q. DO YOU AGREE THAT THAT'S A POSSIBILITY, THAT

HYPOTHESIS?

A. JUST READ THAT LAST SENTENCE BACK TO ME, JUST

THE BOTTOM. I WANTED TO READ THE PRECEDING

PARAGRAPH.

Q. OKAY. "THE EUTROPHICATION OF THE EVERGLADES IS

RESULTING IN THE CONDITIONS FOR METHYLATION OF

MERCURY."

A. AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW A LOT ABOUT MERCURY, BUT I

DON'T -- I DON'T THINK I AGREE WITH THAT RIGHT

NOW, BASED ON MY LIMITED KNOWLEDGE, AND IT'S BASED

MORE ON THE PRECEDING PARAGRAPH.

Q. WHAT DO YOU MEAN, BASED UPON, YOUR---

A. WELL, THE HYPOTHESIS SUGGESTS THAT PHOSPHORUS

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 548

ADDITIONS ARE INCREASING, CAUSING MORE REDUCED

ANAEROBIC CONDITIONS. AND AS YOU WILL GET A

CRACK AT -- I THINK TOMORROW AND THE NEXT DAY --

DR. QUALLS HAS SOME REDOX POTENTIAL DATA, THAT

INDICATES THAT -- THAT SUGGESTS THAT THERE IS

REALLY NO DIFFERENCE IN REDOX POTENTIAL BETWEEN

ENRICHED AND UNENRICHED AREAS OF 2A. AND I THINK

BASED ON THAT DATA, I'M NOT -- I DON'T THINK I

AGREE WITH THAT. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE DATA ON

REDOX POTENTIALS, GOOD REDOX DATA, IN ENRICHED AND

UNENRICHED AREAS, AND THEN TRY TO DETERMINE

WHETHER THE HYPOTHESIS IS PLAUSIBLE.

Q. OKAY. I BELIEVE YOU TESTIFIED YESTERDAY THAT YOU

HAD RECEIVED A COPY OF THIS REPORT FROM DR.

RICHARDSON AT SOME POINT?

A. RIGHT. I THINK HE PASSED ON A COPY TO ME, IN

FACT---

Q. OKAY.

A. ---BECAUSE IT HAD MY NAME ON IT, OR SOMETHING LIKE

THAT.

Q. DO YOU KNOW WHY YOU WERE GIVEN THIS REPORT?

A. AGAIN, HE JUST PASSES INFORMATION ON TO ME THAT I

THINK MIGHT BE OF SOME INTEREST. THERE'S A LOT OF

RESEARCH GOING ON IN THE EVERGLADES NOW, AND IT'S

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 549

WORTHWHILE FOR ME TO SEE WHAT EVERYBODY ELSE IS

DOING, AND JUST TO SEE WHAT KIND OF RESEARCH IS

BEING PERFORMED.

Q. HAVE YOU BEEN ASKED TO GET INVOLVED IN ANY---

A. NO, NO---

Q. LET ME FINISH MY QUESTION.

A. SORRY.

Q. ---ANY RESEARCH CONCERNING MERCURY?

A. NO.

Q. WERE YOU ASKED FOR ANY COMMENTS CONCERNING THIS

REPORT?

A. NO.

Q. HAVE YOU GIVEN ANY COMMENTS?

A. I THINK WE MAY HAVE TALKED ABOUT THE HYPOTHESIS,

JUST, YOU KNOW, IN PASSING.

Q. WHEN DID THAT OCCUR?

A. THIS WAS PROBABLY LAST SUMMER. I MEAN, IT'S BEEN

THREE OR FOUR MONTHS OR MORE. I THINK I PROBABLY

HAD THAT THING FOR, I DON'T KNOW, SINCE

SUMMERTIME.

Q. WHAT -- WHAT WAS THE NATURE OF YOUR DISCUSSIONS,

CONCERNING THE HYPOTHESIS?

A. JUST BASED ON DR. QUALLS' DATA. YOU KNOW, THE

DATA TO THIS POINT DOESN'T SHOW ANY DIFFERENCES

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 550

IN REDOX POTENTIAL BETWEEN ENRICHED AND UNENRICHED

AREAS. AND THAT HYPOTHESIS IS BASED ON THE IDEA

THAT REDOX IS LOWER IN THESE ENRICHED AREAS.

Q. IS ANYONE AT THE DUKE WETLAND CENTER, TO YOUR

KNOWLEDGE, DOING RESEARCH IN THIS AREA?

A. NO, NOT AT THIS TIME.

Q. DO YOU KNOW IF DR. PATRICK MIGHT BE DOING SOME

RESEARCH IN THIS AREA?

A. I DON'T KNOW. I HAVEN'T HEARD.

Q. OTHER THAN THIS PARTICULAR REPORT HERE, ARE YOU

AWARE OF ANYONE ELSE THAT'S CURRENTLY DOING

RESEARCH ON MERCURY IN THE EVERGLADES?

A. NO. IN FACT, I'M NOT AWARE OF ANYBODY DOING

RESEARCH YET, ALTHOUGH, YOU KNOW, IT SOUNDS

LIKE THAT'S THE NEXT BIG ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUE,

SO---

MR. NETTLETON: NO MORE QUESTIONS.

EXAMINATION BY MR. BURGESS:

Q. DR. CRAFT, THIS MORNING YOU SAID THAT WITH RESPECT

TO, I BELIEVE IT WAS THE FERTILIZER -- WITH

RESPECT TO THE FERTILIZER STUDY, THAT ALTHOUGH YOU

MAY NOT HAVE HAD ANY SPECIFIC HYPOTHESIS, YOU HAD

STUDY OBJECTIVES. COULD YOU TELL US WHAT THOSE

OBJECTIVES WERE?

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 551

A. YES. I'D LIKE TO MAYBE BORROW RALPH'S ANNUAL

REPORT, SINCE, AGAIN, I CAN'T REMEMBER EVERYTHING

THAT I WRITE. AFTER A WHILE IT GOES IN ONE EAR

AND COMES OUT THE OTHER. AND WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY

EXPLICIT HYPOTHESES, BUT WITHIN THE OBJECTIVES, I

THINK WE HAD SEVERAL IMPLICIT HYPOTHESES, AND I

JUST WANT TO GO OVER SOME OF THEM.

MS. PONZOLI: ARE WE ON THE '91

ANNUAL REPORT?

WITNESS: I'LL LOOK AND SEE WHICH IS

THE RIGHT -- THE RIGHT ONE. THIS IS THE

'92 ANNUAL REPORT. BUT IF YOU LOOK ON

PAGE 12, YOU CAN SEE -- ACTUALLY, LET ME

FIND THE ONE. I THINK MAYBE IT IS THE '91.

DOES ANYBODY HAVE A COPY OF THE '91 THAT I

COULD LOOK AT? I DON'T THINK THIS WILL

TAKE LONG, BUT IT WOULD BE BETTER FOR ME

TO SAY IT OUT OF HERE THAN TO TRY TO REMEMBER

IT, SINCE I DIDN'T DO A GOOD JOB OF THAT

BEFORE.

MS. PONZOLI: JUST DON'T READ MY NOTES.

WITNESS: I WON'T LIKE WHAT I SEE,

PROBABLY.

MR. McCAUGHAN: DID YOU FIND

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 552

SATURATION?

WITNESS: I'M GOING TO LOOK THAT UP

IN THE DICTIONARY.

(THEREUPON, THERE WAS AN

OFF-THE-RECORD DISCUSSION

WHICH WAS NOT REPORTED

BY THE COURT REPORTER.)

(THEREUPON, WITNESS REVIEWS DOCUMENT.)

A. IN THE '91 ANNUAL REPORT, ON PAGE 182, I DO LIST

AN OBJECTIVE SECTION, TALKS ABOUT EVIDENCE TO

SUGGEST PHOSPHORUS LOADING AND INCREASED

HYDROPERIOD CAUSE CHANGES IN PLANT COMMUNITIES,

AND SO ON AND SO FORTH. AND THEN DOWN HERE AFTER

SEVERAL SENTENCES, I SAY, "HOWEVER, THE EFFECTS OF

N ON NATIVE EVERGLADES VEGETATION IS UNCLEAR."

AND I TALK ABOUT THE REASONS FOR THAT, SINCE ALL

THE PREVIOUS STUDIES HAVE USED NITRATE, AND

NOBODY'S REALLY LOOKED AT AMMONIUM, WHICH IS

USUALLY THE DOMINANT FORM OF NITROGEN IN WETLAND

SYSTEMS. AND IF YOU GO TO THE PAGE -- TOP OF PAGE

183, OUR OBJECTIVES WERE TO DETERMINE IF, AND AT

WHAT LEVELS N AND P, AND THE COMBINATION OF N AND

P ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR INVASION OF CATTAIL INTO

SAWGRASS AND SLOUGH COMMUNITIES. SO, I MEAN, WE

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 553

HAVE OBJECTIVES, AND I THINK IMPLICIT IN THEM ARE

THE NULL HYPOTHESIS, THAT FERTILIZER ADDITIONS

HAVE NO EFFECT, AND THE ALTERNATIVE HYPOTHESIS

THAT FERTILIZER ADDITIONS HAVE AN EFFECT. AND,

SPECIFICALLY, WE'RE INTERESTED IN PHOSPHORUS

BECAUSE OF THE -- WELL, THERE'S JUST A LOT OF

INTEREST IN PHOSPHORUS. WE'RE ALSO INTERESTED IN

NITROGEN, AND WE'RE INTERESTED IN THE RESPONSE OF

THEM IN COMBINATION. AND SOME PEOPLE HAVE

SUGGESTED THAT PERHAPS IF YOU ADD ENOUGH P TO THE

SYSTEM, NITROGEN WILL BE BECOME LIMITING, BUT --

SO I THINK OUR OBJECTIVES ARE TO LOOK AT THE

EFFECTS OF N BY ITSELF, P BY ITSELF, AND N AND P

TOGETHER ON A -- SOME OF THESE COMMUNITY

ATTRIBUTES, INCLUDING PRODUCTIVITY, NUTRIENT

UPTAKE, AND CHANGES IN PLANT SPECIES COMPOSITION,

SPECIFICALLY THE ENCOURAGEMENT OF CATTAIL INTO

NATIVE EVERGLADE PLANT COMMUNITIES.

Q. OKAY. AND, DR. CRAFT, WITH RESPECT TO ALL THE

WORK THAT YOU HAVE DONE IN THE EVERGLADES AND THE

WORK THAT YOU HAVE TESTIFIED ABOUT FOR THE LAST

TWO DAYS, HAS ALL OF THAT WORK BEEN DONE BY

YOURSELF AS AN EMPLOYEE OF THE DUKE WETLAND

CENTER?

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 554

A. ONE HUNDRED PERCENT OF IT HAS BEEN DONE.

Q. OKAY. AND HAS IT BEEN DONE UNDER THE DIRECTION OF

DR. CURTIS RICHARDSON?

A. YES.

Q. OKAY. IN THE NORMAL COURSE OF YOUR WORK, DO YOU

INTERACT WITH DR. RICHARDSON ON THE PROGRESS OF

YOUR STUDIES?

A. WELL, CERTAINLY, HE'S MY -- HE'S MY BOSS, SO.

Q. OKAY. AND HE REVIEWS DRAFTS OF YOUR PAPERS?

A. OH, YES.

Q. HE REVIEWS YOUR DATA?

A. YES.

MR. BURGESS: OKAY, I DON'T HAVE

ANYTHING ELSE. THANK YOU.

MR. NETTLETON: I'D LIKE TO ASK A

QUESTION, IF I COULD, JUST TO FOLLOW UP.

FURTHER EXAMINATION BY MR. NETTLETON:

Q. DID YOU DISCUSS YOUR TESTIMONY YOU JUST GAVE

CONCERNING YOUR -- THE HYPOTHESIS OF THE

FERTILIZER STUDY WITH MR. BURGESS WITHIN THE

LAST DAY?

A. YEAH. BUT I THOUGHT ABOUT IT AFTER I LEFT

YESTERDAY, AND REALIZED THAT I DIDN'T DO A GOOD

JOB OF ADDRESSING THE QUESTION, AND SO I TALKED

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 555

TO CURTIS. I WANTED TO BE ABLE TO COME BACK

TODAY, AND MAKE IT CLEAR THAT THERE WERE

HYPOTHESES. I REMEMBER YESTERDAY, I WAS KIND OF

ON THE EDGE THERE AT 4:30 IN THE AFTERNOON.

Q. DID YOU DISCUSS ANY OTHER AREAS OF YOUR TESTIMONY?

A. NO, I DON'T THINK SO.

MR. NETTLETON: NO FURTHER QUESTIONS.

FURTHER EXAMINATION BY MR. BURGESS:

Q. I WOULD LIKE TO CLEAR UP THE RECORD, WITH RESPECT

TO YOUR TESTIMONY REGARDING THE HYPOTHESIS, WHEN

WAS THE FIRST TIME THAT YOU TALKED TO ME ABOUT

THAT?

A. I THINK IT WAS TODAY, I THOUGHT.

Q. AND WAS IT PURSUANT TO YOU ASKING ME TO LEAVE THE

ROOM THIS MORNING, BECAUSE YOU HAD SOMETHING---

A. YEAH, THAT WAS.

Q. WHAT DID YOU ASK ME WHETHER YOU SHOULD DO?

A. BASICALLY, I ASKED MR. BURGESS WHETHER I SHOULD GO

AHEAD AND SAY FOR THE RECORD, AT NINE O'CLOCK THIS

MORNING, THAT I WANTED TO SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT,

OR WHETHER IT WOULD BE ADDRESSED LATER ON IN THE

DAY. AND HE SAID THAT, WELL, YOU KNOW, WE CAN

ADDRESS THAT AT THE END OF THE DAY AND CLARIFY

IT.

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 556

MR. BURGESS: THANK YOU.

A. I WANT -- WELL, LET ME FINISH UP, TO SAY,

YESTERDAY, WHEN THE QUESTION ABOUT HYPOTHESIS CAME

UP, I WAS THINKING IN TERMS OF AN EXPLICIT

HYPOTHESIS, MUCH LIKE DR. RADER PUTS IN HIS PAPERS

AT HYPOTHESIS ONE. AND I DON'T GENERALLY DO THAT.

I SORT OF SET THE STAGE AND LAY OUT SOME

OBJECTIVES IN MY HYPOTHESES. I'M MORE IMPLICIT IN

THE OBJECTIVES SECTION.

MR. BURGESS: THANK YOU.

-------------------------------------------------------

(THEREUPON, THE DEPOSITION WAS CONCLUDED AT 4:20 P.M.)

-------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 557

NORTH CAROLINA

WAKE COUNTY

 

 

I, CHRISTOPHER B. CRAFT, HAVE READ

THE FOREGOING TRANSCRIPT OF MY

DEPOSITION AND DO HEREBY CERTIFY

THAT THE PRECEDING PAGES, 109-556,

VOLUME II, CONSTITUTE A TRUE AND

ACCURATE TRANSCRIPTION OF MY TESTIMONY.

 

 

______________________________

CHRISTOPHER B. CRAFT

 

 

 

 

 

 

SWORN TO AND SUBSCRIBED

BEFORE ME, A NOTARY PUBLIC,

THIS THE ____ DAY OF ________________,

1992.

 

_______________________________

NOTARY PUBLIC

 

MY COMMISSION EXPIRES:

_______________________________

 

 

 

 

 

 

DR. CRAFT VOLUME II PAGE 558

NORTH CAROLINA

WAKE COUNTY

C E R T I F I C A T E

I, CAROL S. YOUNG, A NOTARY PUBLIC, DO HEREBY

CERTIFY THAT DR. CHRISTOPHER BRUCE CRAFT WAS DULY SWORN

PRIOR TO THE TAKING OF THE FOREGOING DEPOSITION, AND

THAT SAID DEPOSITION WAS TAKEN AND TRANSCRIBED UNDER

MY DIRECT SUPERVISION, AND THAT THE FOREGOING PAGES,

109-556, VOLUME II, CONSTITUTE A TRUE AND ACCURATE

TRANSCRIPTION OF THE TESTIMONY OF THE SAID WITNESS.

I DO FURTHER CERTIFY THAT THE PERSONS WERE PRESENT

AS STATED IN THE CAPTION.

I DO FURTHER CERTIFY THAT I AM NOT OF COUNSEL FOR,

OR IN THE EMPLOYMENT OF EITHER OF THE PARTIES TO THIS

ACTION, NOR AM I INTERESTED IN THE RESULTS OF THIS

ACTION.

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I HAVE HEREUNTO SUBSCRIBED MY

NAME, THIS THE 31ST DAY OF DECEMBER, 1992.

 

 

_____________________________

CAROL S. YOUNG

CAROLYN Y. HALL & ASSOCIATES

2551 ALBEMARLE AVENUE

RALEIGH, NORTH CAROLINA 27610

MY COMMISSION EXPIRES

DECEMBER 26, 1995